00;00;00;00 - 00;00;03;05 Unknown good lighting is actually where you don't notice the light, 00;00;03;05 - 00;00;05;08 Unknown like, you just notice what's going up 00;00;05;08 - 00;00;15;10 Unknown and understanding that like, when they go in and they put these recessed cans or the lights right at the surface of the ceiling, it creates a glare bomb on your ceiling. 00;00;16;03 - 00;00;24;21 Unknown Because that's what your eye is drawn to when the whole point of recessed lighting is to take the glare surface, recessed it up into the ceiling. 00;00;24;23 - 00;00;27;13 Unknown So when you look across the room, that's not what you're seeing. 00;00;38;24 - 00;00;50;19 Unknown Hey, friends, welcome back to the Your Project Shepherd podcast. I'm your host, Curtis Lawson, and I'm really excited about today's topic. It's something that I've been wanting to cover for quite some time now. And that is lighting design. 00;00;50;21 - 00;01;07;23 Unknown And my guest is someone that I first became aware of, about a year ago when I got a set of plans from an architect that, his company had done the lighting design for. And I got that plan, and I was like, wow, this is so much better than a typical, lighting diagram that I get from an architect. 00;01;07;23 - 00;01;25;20 Unknown I love this. And, when I talk to the architect, in fact, it was arc three Studios, who I've had on the podcast before. They were like, oh, yeah, Martin's awesome. You know, you should you should meet him and try them out. And so and and then a few months later, I met him at a GBA luncheon. 00;01;25;27 - 00;01;40;10 Unknown He and some of his team were at our, custom Builders Council luncheon, and we got a chance to chat for a while. And so I'm really excited to have him on the podcast. So the man that I'm talking about is Martin Sunday of Martin Sunday Lighting Design. Thanks for being here. Welcome to the show. 00;01;40;17 - 00;01;42;12 Unknown Oh. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. 00;01;42;12 - 00;01;54;28 Unknown I'm I'm really excited to to get into this. But before we kind of get into the whole lighting design conversation, just tell us a little bit about you and your background and how you got into this world. 00;01;55;17 - 00;02;05;15 Unknown So I started out in, Los Angeles with Ken Paulson, Light Expressions. And that was back in the 80s. And, 00;02;05;15 - 00;02;09;15 Unknown that was back when they were using, like, torches and things to light to light the caves. Right. 00;02;09;15 - 00;02;23;04 Unknown It was different for sure. Different than the day for. There's no question. But anyway, I started working as his assistant, helping him. We were actually one of our first jobs was this great restaurant on Santa Monica Boulevard. 00;02;23;07 - 00;02;47;06 Unknown And, it was really cool because what we what we did is we actually used theatrical gels to affect the way the lighting was. Creating the ambiance in the restaurant. And, it's something I do today that I don't think a lot of lighting designers actually do. We've done eight restaurants in the last, couple of years. 00;02;47;09 - 00;02;55;09 Unknown Ben Burge, who we did most of the restaurants for, is really into that, that warm glow. So we had to wrap every bulb in the whole place with 00;02;55;09 - 00;02;56;25 Unknown gel. It, 00;02;56;25 - 00;03;02;21 Unknown It was great. The, the restaurant that if you want to check out that's amazing is called Annabel's 00;03;02;21 - 00;03;03;11 Unknown Okay. And it's 00;03;03;11 - 00;03;08;20 Unknown over on, Allen Parkway and it's in that Buffalo park. 00;03;08;23 - 00;03;16;02 Unknown That's that's really beautiful underneath the, one of the build, the high rises over there. And it's a beautiful restaurant. 00;03;16;02 - 00;03;17;04 Unknown Cool. 00;03;17;05 - 00;03;18;20 Unknown So what brought you to Easton? 00;03;18;20 - 00;03;32;23 Unknown So I was working. I worked for Cannes for quite a few years, and then I moved to San Diego, and, was working for John Case down there, became vice president of three of his companies. 00;03;32;25 - 00;03;52;28 Unknown And, John was a little bit of a funny guy. I had to break ways with him after a certain while, and, went back to L.A. for a little while, and then, came out to Houston. I had a brother. I have a brother here, and I wasn't here two weeks before I started working for Lighting Incorporated. 00;03;52;28 - 00;03;53;18 Unknown Okay. 00;03;53;18 - 00;04;03;06 Unknown And I was they they hired me in as a lighting designer in house, and I worked with them for 22 years, partly while I built my own company. 00;04;03;06 - 00;04;17;16 Unknown So how do you even get into lighting design? It seems like a kind of a specialty niche that, you know, I don't really, you know, hear about specialize. I'm sure it exists, but I, you know, I don't, I don't hear about specialized lighting design training. 00;04;17;18 - 00;04;28;14 Unknown It's something that I've always thought more. You know, you mentioned LA, like kind of the theatrical world, the restaurant world is kind of how I've always thought about it. How does one get into residential lighting design? 00;04;28;14 - 00;04;33;21 Unknown Well, you know, when I moved here and I started working with Lighting Inc, there's a lot of it's. 00;04;33;23 - 00;05;00;17 Unknown They do. They cater to a lot of residential people, residential projects and builders, designers, architects and, I found that as the LED market was evolving, lighting design was getting more and more complicated. And like, you saw our plans, the the level of detail that we put in it is way beyond what an architect generally puts in a plan. 00;05;00;17 - 00;05;01;07 Unknown 00;05;01;07 - 00;05;09;02 Unknown Usually he doesn't even specify what lights to use. He just puts circles in and said, this is a down like this is an art light, you know, that kind of thing. 00;05;09;02 - 00;05;09;16 Unknown right. 00;05;09;16 - 00;05;30;27 Unknown But we realized the need for a lot more information in that lighting design plan, the fixture schedule, which, you know, tells you every single thing about how to dim that light, how much wattage that light is so the electricians can plan their panels and then, and then putting down the, the quantities and stuff like that. 00;05;30;27 - 00;05;35;16 Unknown So you as a builder can just take it right to the store and get bids on it. 00;05;35;16 - 00;05;36;20 Unknown right, 00;05;36;20 - 00;05;57;07 Unknown Making it so much easier for you. But then knowing the dimensions on exactly where that fixture goes, and then, you know, we don't just do the plans, throw them out, and we're done. We're all the way to the very end because one of the most important aspects of lighting design is the engineering of it. 00;05;57;12 - 00;06;03;10 Unknown But the most important is where the magic happens. And that is adjusting the lights at the end. 00;06;03;10 - 00;06;04;04 Unknown 00;06;04;04 - 00;06;11;07 Unknown You know, you can design this amazing system and if you don't adjust it and that's after the artwork's up and the furniture's in, 00;06;11;26 - 00;06;18;09 Unknown probably been living there for a month or two. If you don't do it, it's like buying a grand piano and not tuning it. 00;06;18;09 - 00;06;19;05 Unknown Yeah. You know, I mean 00;06;19;05 - 00;06;26;21 Unknown it really sings when you hit that piece of artwork. Could you. You adjust the lights on the furniture, you get it so that it's just perfect. 00;06;26;21 - 00;06;31;05 Unknown Yeah. So, so, you know, why might somebody need a lighting is. 00;06;31;05 - 00;06;51;08 Unknown Or actually I'll back up. So I saw a stat on a video that you shared with me that you did recently that said that, you know, in, in other markets, I think Dallas, for example, almost all projects use a lighting designer and then the Austin market, maybe half will use a lighting designer. And Houston, it's like 5% or some really low number. 00;06;51;08 - 00;07;12;00 Unknown Right? Why do you think that is? First of all, like what? Why why aren't why isn't everyone doing that? And, you know, kind of the second part of that question is, you know, why is it necessary? And you you touched on that a second ago with the architect, conversation. But you know what? Why is that necessary? 00;07;12;09 - 00;07;18;21 Unknown So I think the reason that not everybody is using a lighting designer is because of education. 00;07;18;24 - 00;07;49;08 Unknown They just actually don't know that a lighting designer is going to go into detail about how light is landing on objects, how the home is lit up, what color of light to use, what product to use. You know, everything has changed in the last 5 to 6 years from, incandescent lighting to LED lighting. And there's a whole level of complexity in using LED lighting. 00;07;49;11 - 00;08;05;03 Unknown You know, the we can we can do warm dim, we can do 3000, we can do 27 K, you know, depending on what the function is and what the client wants. The funny thing is that we all have different colored eyes and we see light differently. 00;08;05;26 - 00;08;20;14 Unknown So understanding how to cater to that is really important. And the other thing is that it used to be okay for the architect to do the lighting. 00;08;20;14 - 00;08;37;05 Unknown Simon. You know, he put a chandelier in the dining room. He put a few cans in that. The family room. He put a couple of sconces in the bathroom. Be done. But that's not how we do lighting today. You know it's not. And the funny thing about lighting is that you don't even notice it 00;08;37;05 - 00;08;37;29 Unknown You walk 00;08;37;29 - 00;08;38;17 Unknown into a home. 00;08;38;24 - 00;08;45;14 Unknown You'll walk into a home and you'll go, wow, there's something really amazing about this house. And it's the lighting a lot of the 00;08;45;14 - 00;08;46;09 Unknown Yeah. 00;08;46;09 - 00;08;48;04 Unknown And then when are you at home 00;08;48;07 - 00;08;57;27 Unknown In the evenings. In the mornings. Right. I'm not at home during the day. Yeah. It's during the times when the lighting's not the strongest coming in from outside. So you're relying more on artificial rain. 00;08;57;27 - 00;09;26;10 Unknown So that's that's why it's so important to have good lighting. The thing that's really amazing about using a lighting designer is that in the overall cost of your home, it's such a small percentage. People just don't know that it's that important and that quite honestly, in that, you know, the cost of a couple million dollar home, we're talking point 5% or something like that. 00;09;26;11 - 00;09;28;09 Unknown We're talking about very little amount. 00;09;28;09 - 00;09;39;07 Unknown Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a less than 1% of the cost of the project. And, and that can take it like kind of an average house to the next level. 00;09;39;10 - 00;09;41;21 Unknown And the way it looks and feels and functions 00;09;41;21 - 00;09;48;17 Unknown And we have houses that are 20, 20 500ft². I've got a 32,000 square foot house I'm working on right now. 00;09;48;17 - 00;10;06;15 Unknown So it in like, our client said in the video, which was so amazing. She says, you don't have to have a bunch of really nice stuff to have good lighting design. It's it it's just that when you have good lighting design and you walk into your closet, you're looking for clothes. You can see the colors. 00;10;06;15 - 00;10;07;01 Unknown Yeah. You 00;10;07;01 - 00;10;08;28 Unknown come home at night, you're really tired. 00;10;09;01 - 00;10;23;20 Unknown You can you can have that nice, comfortable, warm atmosphere, you know, and then particularly as you're getting ready to go to bed, knowing how to turn the lights down and have them be warm. You know, it's not it's not that hard and it's not that expensive, 00;10;23;20 - 00;10;37;02 Unknown Yeah. Kind of just have to know. Yeah. Kind of setting the stage for getting yourself rammed down to go to sleep or in the morning, kind of ramping up so you're not hit with this bright glare first thing in the morning. It's kind of warming up to your day. 00;10;37;04 - 00;10;57;28 Unknown You know, one of the things that that we do, and I'll admit, I didn't use a lighting designer in my own house. But, you know, in my kitchen, I've got, you know, some LED tape under cabinet task lighting that's dimmable. I've got a couple of, you know, wall sconces that are dimmable, and my kids will go in there and just hit all the switches and turn all the lights on first thing in the morning. 00;10;58;04 - 00;11;22;00 Unknown But when I get up in the morning, I just want to, like, hit those under those under cabinet lights in the sconces and, and have them kind of a nice warm glow until I'm fully awake. And then I'll turn all the, all the recessed lighting on. But, you know, it's it makes a difference, at least in my, in my kind of mentality, my, my, my the space that my head is in when I get up not to just get blasted as soon as I walk in the kitchen. 00;11;22;00 - 00;11;28;13 Unknown Exactly. And, you know, and the other thing is, a lot of times builders don't even put dimmers 00;11;28;13 - 00;11;28;28 Unknown Yeah. 00;11;28;28 - 00;11;33;26 Unknown lights. And what I've heard from clients is that, oh, yeah, we don't use those lights because they're too bright. 00;11;33;26 - 00;11;34;11 Unknown Yeah. 00;11;34;11 - 00;11;42;21 Unknown You know, so just understanding that like a denim, a dimmer, what kind of dimmer or controlling LED? What kind of dimmer is going to work with LEDs? 00;11;42;21 - 00;11;43;08 Unknown Right. 00;11;43;08 - 00;11;52;28 Unknown There's just so much subtlety to, having just a, a good design that's not even like, you know, super duper. 00;11;52;28 - 00;11;53;14 Unknown Yeah. 00;11;53;14 - 00;11;57;14 Unknown It just has to be, you thought of thought through. 00;11;57;14 - 00;12;09;26 Unknown And it's always expensive if you just do it upfront. You know, so my, my electrician said if I just put a dimmer in when he's installing the rest of the switches, that might be a $30 upgrade for that dimmer. 00;12;09;26 - 00;12;29;20 Unknown Let's say, you know, I was depending on what kind of dimmer does or whatever. But if he has to come back 30 days later, take out the switch he's already installed, then install a dimmer. It's separate trip charge. He's removing something. You know, it's it's $100 to do it later. So it's more than double the cost to come back and retrofit that. 00;12;29;23 - 00;12;50;17 Unknown Same thing with with the recessed lighting. If the builder just slaps in just the cheap $8 or whatever is right, and then you go swap it out later, you know, you're going to pay the electrician to to come back and do double work. So the cost delta for doing it, the better way the first time, it really isn't that bad, but the kind of the penalty for doing it later can be painful. 00;12;50;17 - 00;12;54;24 Unknown Right. Well and and we're not we're not selling equipment. 00;12;54;26 - 00;12;55;26 Unknown We're selling design. 00;12;55;26 - 00;12;56;16 Unknown Yeah. 00;12;56;16 - 00;13;12;23 Unknown So we don't put the highest level, most expensive equipment everywhere. You know, we know where you can get away with putting a, you know, a $9 can with a $35 trim on it and it be the right light like bedrooms, 00;13;13;20 - 00;13;18;13 Unknown closets, you know, but then in your common areas, you want a finer light. 00;13;18;13 - 00;13;38;03 Unknown You want something that's going to be it's going to pop a little more, have more, have more brightness and have adjustability. And so when we design, that's one of the aspects is not just, you know, I know lighting designers from Houston who actually have retired. Now you go into his jobs and there are 100 commands, 00;13;39;02 - 00;13;40;15 Unknown but that was his style. 00;13;40;17 - 00;13;42;19 Unknown And we're trying to be more practical in our style. 00;13;42;19 - 00;13;48;11 Unknown Yeah. I have most of the clients that I talk to don't want their ceiling just littered with holes. 00;13;48;17 - 00;13;55;25 Unknown Right. They want to be more intentional about, what they're putting in where it's placed and not over lighter space. 00;13;55;25 - 00;13;57;18 Unknown Yeah. Strategic 00;13;57;18 - 00;13;58;06 Unknown Yeah. 00;13;58;06 - 00;14;10;22 Unknown about how you do it. The other thing is today we can go down to what, a four inch, three inch, two inch, even one inch cans and have that ceiling that look like Swiss cheese. 00;14;10;25 - 00;14;21;04 Unknown You know, they're really much smaller. The cost to actually cut in a trim is not that bad. And then you don't even have a trim on the outside. You've just got the whole 00;14;21;04 - 00;14;21;26 Unknown 00;14;21;26 - 00;14;23;27 Unknown beautiful. It's a beautiful look. 00;14;23;27 - 00;14;38;12 Unknown Yeah. So kind of back to you know why somebody might need a lighting designer. I you know I think some people obviously if they have special artwork or collections or something that they want to highlight, that's, that's, that's probably a very common thing that you deal with. 00;14;38;12 - 00;15;07;06 Unknown Right. You know, kind of lighting is for specific, for specific, task like artwork, but then also I was thinking about, you know, people with either visual impairments or people as they age may need more lighting for certain tasks. And so it's being strategic about what's being lit. Do they have the right amount of lighting for workspaces or for safety transition points bump between heights and hallways and things, stairs, things like that. 00;15;07;06 - 00;15;07;21 Unknown Right. 00;15;07;21 - 00;15;21;13 Unknown there. There's that. Especially the, as we age, we need more light. What's funny about that is that the higher Kelvin, the more bluish light is actually better for us as we 00;15;21;29 - 00;15;30;01 Unknown able to see better because of that. If you're, if you have a shop even higher Kelvin, like in the 5000 range, 00;15;30;01 - 00;15;30;21 Unknown Right. You can 00;15;30;21 - 00;15;31;25 Unknown see really fine. 00;15;31;26 - 00;15;35;29 Unknown You know, if you're working on wood or you're working with metals, stuff like that. 00;15;35;29 - 00;15;40;25 Unknown which is why in like, like office settings, you'll typically see the, the 4 or 5000 Kelvin. 00;15;40;25 - 00;15;52;16 Unknown Yeah. 4000 is a really good for that because it's it and it also wakes you up. So the color of the light during the middle of the day is closer to the four and 5000 00;15;53;09 - 00;16;00;26 Unknown And so when you're waking up, those are, those are colors that are are better to help you your brain activate. 00;16;00;26 - 00;16;12;02 Unknown And I think there's, there's been a lot more research in in recent years about how lighting affects our health and circadian rhythms and all that kind of stuff. Is that something that you take into consideration? 00;16;12;02 - 00;16;24;02 Unknown Oh yeah. So the Ritz Carlton did a really great study, on their, people staying in their hotels, and they did blackouts in some of their rooms. 00;16;24;04 - 00;16;27;10 Unknown And people sleep better when there's absolutely no light in the 00;16;27;10 - 00;16;28;04 Unknown room. 00;16;28;04 - 00;16;31;01 Unknown And guess what? They spend more money if they sleep. Well, 00;16;32;06 - 00;16;37;15 Unknown I know, like, if I don't sleep well, I have a harder time just 00;16;37;15 - 00;16;38;14 Unknown being like nice. 00;16;38;16 - 00;16;39;04 Unknown Yeah. 00;16;39;04 - 00;16;56;10 Unknown I mean, but, so taking that in consideration, there's actually. And I know this is probably jumping ahead in your, in your, questions, but there's new products out that do that actually are able to follow the color of the sunlight outside as the day goes on. 00;16;56;13 - 00;16;58;26 Unknown Lutron has a product called tetra 00;16;58;26 - 00;17;00;02 Unknown That is 00;17;00;02 - 00;17;12;25 Unknown next level lighting, and we're doing it in quite a few homes, but it, it warms down at night to get you ready for bed. It wakes up in the morning. Great. Great products. 00;17;12;25 - 00;17;20;12 Unknown Well, I saw that at the builders show in Vegas, here a couple weeks ago. And that was. That was some really neat stuff. 00;17;20;12 - 00;17;22;10 Unknown Yeah, we actually have it in our conference room 00;17;22;25 - 00;17;38;27 Unknown so we can show people, we have the dynamic show. So it'll go through today and actually show in about a minute or two the different ranges of color of light. And then it also has the ability to be, to do color, the ability to do for artwork. 00;17;38;27 - 00;17;42;23 Unknown It has a vibrancy setting that just pops the artwork. 00;17;44;01 - 00;17;55;28 Unknown What other kinds of things do do people, you know need, need to to to plan for. What kinds of things do you help people plan for with their lighting outside of, you know, artwork and task lighting. 00;17;55;29 - 00;18;01;19 Unknown So, and a lot of people have heard this already, but layering light 00;18;01;19 - 00;18;02;06 Unknown 00;18;02;06 - 00;18;11;08 Unknown and then controlling it separately so that you can set the mood in a room, you can you can really play with the atmosphere in your space. 00;18;11;11 - 00;18;15;19 Unknown One of the things that, is really fun is backlighting stone. 00;18;16;16 - 00;18;31;00 Unknown And knowing how to what products to use and how to do that is, complicated. The other thing is the right type of cove lighting today, especially with these coves that are two stories up 00;18;31;15 - 00;18;32;12 Unknown And we don't want to have to 00;18;32;12 - 00;18;42;00 Unknown get back up there to like, you know, a change a bulb or the old the strip lighting had these little bulbs every, you know, four, four bulbs 00;18;42;00 - 00;18;43;26 Unknown Yeah. And you'd see the dots 00;18;43;26 - 00;18;47;19 Unknown you'd see you'd see the dots. You'd also if there was one out, you'd see it. 00;18;47;19 - 00;18;53;12 Unknown Yeah. And so the, the new LED tape technology is just been a game changer. 00;18;53;14 - 00;19;04;14 Unknown And all those things that you mentioned. So backlighting stone. Yeah I mean we've done those there's mats of of LEDs under a piece of stone is just beautiful. 00;19;04;14 - 00;19;14;22 Unknown absolutely. We did, a cube in a wine room is actually about this size, but it was stone on the side and stone on the side. And both of those sides were lit with the top. 00;19;15;11 - 00;19;31;11 Unknown Amazing looking. But the it's not you know, it's not just about that, but it's also about having, having coves having different like I said, different layers of light. 00;19;31;13 - 00;19;44;05 Unknown But having them so that you don't see where the bulbs are coming from, you don't see the dots, you know, lighting cabinets with that old Christmas light looking LED tape is, 00;19;44;05 - 00;20;07;14 Unknown you know, it's. Yeah, you could see it. It's not worth having. Yeah. Yeah. And there's so many options now. And not just the tape has come a long way, but just the that the accessories that go with the tape, like the, the track systems and the lens systems that go on that stuff has really evolved. And but you know, you can't just use just a flat metal track and call it good for every application. 00;20;07;14 - 00;20;22;28 Unknown There's you know, different, different angles that should be positioned at depending on what you're trying to to light. Right. And in different positions, like with under cabinet light should be at the front of the back. And and what angle should it be at? There's a lot of nuance that goes into planning the the use of that tape. 00;20;22;28 - 00;20;35;00 Unknown Right. Exactly. And the thing is, with LED tape and doing cabinets, you put it at the front and 45 degree channel and it goes down and back, not just down 00;20;35;00 - 00;20;35;26 Unknown 00;20;35;26 - 00;20;41;01 Unknown the the old under kind of fixtures that we used to use. All of them just shine down. 00;20;41;01 - 00;20;41;19 Unknown Yeah. 00;20;41;19 - 00;20;48;29 Unknown I mean there's, there's so many different like little nuances to lighting and how to use it, especially with we're talking 00;20;48;29 - 00;20;53;27 Unknown and that's just that's just one of the reasons that we can't just go. 00;20;53;28 - 00;21;15;04 Unknown I mean, you can that we don't recommend our clients just go with the the architect's drawings. I mean, they're basically focused on getting a basic electrical, a base electrical plan on there for permitting. Right. And just just to get it out as a, as a discussion point, even sometimes, there's there's so many little nuances to keep up with it. 00;21;15;05 - 00;21;40;28 Unknown I mean, I, I can't expect an architect to have all that in their database. And I, as a builder, can't have all that in my mental database. So, you know, we have to rely on an expert who knows this stuff. You know, we we bring in experts for all these other things that we do. And so why wouldn't we use an expert on one of the most important things in our home and that that affects our vision and our health and just kind of our general enjoyment of the home? 00;21;40;29 - 00;21;55;03 Unknown Yeah. You know, it's interesting because, I can do a good lighting plan in two dimensions, but then walking with you when we're at that installation phase, I'll get in the space and say, oh, yeah, no, actually that light needs to move back. 00;21;55;03 - 00;22;08;09 Unknown That needs to move over, you know, knowing how the light's going to function. And then, being able to like, adjust in the field is another good reason to have a lighting designer, because you're not going to know that electricians certainly not going 00;22;08;09 - 00;22;09;02 Unknown know. 00;22;09;02 - 00;22;16;26 Unknown And then you get it done. And the architects put a light bulb too close to the wall, and you got this big arc of light on the wall. 00;22;16;29 - 00;22;23;09 Unknown And it's like it takes away from, you know, good lighting is actually where you don't notice the light, 00;22;23;09 - 00;22;25;12 Unknown like, you just notice what's going up 00;22;25;12 - 00;22;35;14 Unknown and understanding that like, when they go in and they put these recessed cans or the lights right at the surface of the ceiling, it creates a glare bomb on your ceiling. 00;22;36;07 - 00;22;44;25 Unknown Because that's what your eye is drawn to when the whole point of recessed lighting is to take the glare surface, recessed it up into the ceiling. 00;22;44;27 - 00;22;47;14 Unknown So when you look across the room, that's not what you're seeing. 00;22;47;14 - 00;22;55;01 Unknown Yeah, that's, that's one of the big issues that I've seen with what's becoming popular now are these wafer thin. They call them recessed lights. 00;22;55;01 - 00;23;18;19 Unknown Not they're not recessed or it's just a disc light, essentially, that clips around the drywall. You know, you think back to the the recessed cans of the 1970s and 80s. They were really deep, generally speaking. And that bulb could be adjusted to be way up in there. Right. But now with, with these new kind of wafer, lights, we've brought that bulb all the way to the surface, and there's no way to recessed that. 00;23;18;19 - 00;23;40;08 Unknown No, I mean, there are some higher end versions of those that have some depth to them, but it requires some planning. You can't just pop them anywhere because. Because of the depth. So, it's it's funny that we've kind of gone from, you know, back then having a better concept of what recessed lighting could be to now, you know, just making a super thin and all the way down. 00;23;40;11 - 00;23;46;13 Unknown Well, that's your cheapest, easiest, most economical option. But is that going to be what you want here. 00;23;46;13 - 00;23;46;28 Unknown Oh 00;23;46;28 - 00;23;47;18 Unknown yeah. 00;23;47;18 - 00;23;54;19 Unknown You know great. If it's you're putting in a garage or something like that where you're, you know, you need a bunch of light, but where you want atmosphere, that's another really 00;23;54;19 - 00;23;58;23 Unknown Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I see so many builders just using that everywhere in the house. 00;23;58;26 - 00;24;03;10 Unknown Every light is that it's all the way to the surface. Cheap L.E.D. light. 00;24;03;10 - 00;24;13;17 Unknown Yeah. I mean, exactly. And the whole, the whole, the operative operative word there is cheap. And, you know, the thing is, there are good recessed cans that aren't that expensive, 00;24;14;03 - 00;24;23;01 Unknown that, you know, it takes a little more planning instead of just putting a wire there and popping that trim in. But it's so much better 00;24;23;01 - 00;24;38;19 Unknown Yeah absolutely. So when, when do you like to get involved in the in the process. I mean I mean as a builder I want as much information as I can early on and design so that people don't get all the way to the end and then get that get then you get hit with a big surprise. 00;24;38;19 - 00;24;43;09 Unknown But when do you like to get involved with the homeowner, the architect? The interior designer? 00;24;43;09 - 00;25;07;04 Unknown Actually very early. We want to get involved. When the architect has the floor as he's. You mean the floor plan doesn't even have to be finished for us to get involved? There is a lot of work we spend. Weeks and weeks on a project to get it right, and it probably takes us about two weeks to get an initial design. 00;25;07;06 - 00;25;19;02 Unknown So we want that. Like when you're in the planning stage of your bids and your, what you're going to, the costs are going to be because you're going to want to know what your lighting costs are going to run, what your budget 00;25;19;02 - 00;25;19;27 Unknown is. Yeah. 00;25;19;27 - 00;25;30;26 Unknown So getting in early is really important. What happens is if we're in early enough, the trust system can be designed around how the lights go. 00;25;31;27 - 00;25;38;24 Unknown And in the installation of lighting you always want your recessed cans in before your plumbing in the Hvac. 00;25;38;24 - 00;25;39;09 Unknown Yeah. 00;25;39;09 - 00;25;42;18 Unknown don't see your plumbing, you don't see your Hvac, you see the light. 00;25;42;18 - 00;25;44;12 Unknown So the light 00;25;44;12 - 00;25;54;26 Unknown the thing about lighting design is symmetry is everything. As soon as you've got one can that's just a little bit off your eye, it's like 00;25;56;12 - 00;26;00;06 Unknown I'm a little OCD myself, which actually for what I do is really 00;26;00;06 - 00;26;01;08 Unknown Yeah. 00;26;01;08 - 00;26;18;08 Unknown when it comes to lighting design. And I stress this with my employees, we can't be 99% right. I had one letter in a, housing specification wrong. And 140 cans got ordered round instead of square. 00;26;18;08 - 00;26;19;09 Unknown Oh, 00;26;19;09 - 00;26;24;17 Unknown yeah. So, we actually have to be really, really specific. 00;26;24;17 - 00;26;38;27 Unknown And, when it comes to lining up lights and having them, be symmetrical, they tend to go away. You like, you don't see them when they're symmetrical. As soon as they're not, your eyes drawn. Right. 00;26;38;27 - 00;26;48;14 Unknown we like to do a called a box and can walk before wires get pulled before ducks get pulled. 00;26;48;16 - 00;27;14;27 Unknown So I have my electrician and my Hvac contractor both come put all the recessed can housings in, put the AC just the just the box, not the duct. Get all those in the ceiling, get them all laid out, and then do a walk through with the design team to make sure that it is everyone happy with how this is laying out, where there's some structural challenges that caused us to shift something a little bit, and if so, now's the time to fix it. 00;27;15;00 - 00;27;30;25 Unknown But because once once the electrician pulls wire, once the AC guy pulls ducts, they're going to start charging if they have to move something. Right. So, having kind of that team walk through before, people before it kind of gets real is a very important. 00;27;30;25 - 00;27;34;00 Unknown It's funny because I have some builders like, oh, I know how to I know how to install cans. 00;27;34;18 - 00;27;34;24 Unknown You 00;27;34;24 - 00;27;38;23 Unknown no, that's not the issue. The issue is, it's more subtle than 00;27;38;23 - 00;27;39;09 Unknown that. Yeah. Like 00;27;39;09 - 00;27;53;26 Unknown you're saying, what if what if there's a truss in the way and I put a can there, then which direction does the can move? And I understand what I'm using, the can form and what it's what it can do. So I know which direction I want it to go. 00;27;54;18 - 00;28;03;04 Unknown that's a super important part. But the other other thing that a lot of and a lot of high end homes, what they do is have the electricians do strings 00;28;03;04 - 00;28;03;25 Unknown 00;28;03;25 - 00;28;09;17 Unknown so that you know where the cans are going to be, and then you can see ahead of time, you know, where do we have problems? 00;28;09;17 - 00;28;10;04 Unknown Yeah. 00;28;10;04 - 00;28;11;15 Unknown Before you even install the can. 00;28;11;15 - 00;28;11;23 Unknown So 00;28;11;23 - 00;28;12;09 Unknown sure, 00;28;12;09 - 00;28;16;13 Unknown said, you're saving money because the electricians are charging you for moving again. 00;28;16;13 - 00;28;29;28 Unknown Yeah, I, I've done the strings before too. I like putting in the physical can. It doesn't really cost anything to, you know, pull the nails out, shift it over if you need to, or they're on rails. You can slide them, to a certain degree. 00;28;30;00 - 00;28;50;13 Unknown Most of them, but I like being able to see the can because sometimes the strings even don't represent kind of the amount of space that that housing is going to take up. And you get a better a better visual of the actual can is in place. So that's what we like to do. I know a lot of other builders do the strings very successfully, so I think it's kind of a personal preference thing. 00;28;50;13 - 00;28;51;21 Unknown You know, what's funny is that, 00;28;51;21 - 00;28;56;16 Unknown the other thing about LED and recess cans today is the size of them have gotten smaller, 00;28;56;16 - 00;28;57;20 Unknown like the depth. 00;28;57;20 - 00;29;03;00 Unknown They're, you know, they're now like 5.5in is the max depth you're going to run 00;29;03;00 - 00;29;04;01 Unknown into. At some 00;29;04;01 - 00;29;06;21 Unknown of the smaller cans. It's only like three inches. 00;29;06;21 - 00;29;18;02 Unknown Yeah. And so I've, I've, I've actually used, the product in a couple, in a couple of jobs now where it's just a, a mounting bracket that we're putting up with a hole in the middle. 00;29;18;04 - 00;29;36;08 Unknown And then the, the LED trim itself just snaps into that mounting bracket. And that's what takes up the depth. So, I, I like those a lot because that mounting bracket is really easy just to tack up there. And they're just stubbing their wire out through that to connect to later. 00;29;36;08 - 00;29;46;00 Unknown And that's great, especially for down lights if you're using something like that and you've got because usually the kind of what pops up in there bends, you know, rotates 00;29;46;02 - 00;29;46;25 Unknown Yeah. 00;29;46;25 - 00;29;48;24 Unknown So that's great for down light. 00;29;48;24 - 00;29;50;11 Unknown But when you come to art lights, 00;29;50;11 - 00;29;52;01 Unknown you got to be really careful. Oh yeah. 00;29;52;01 - 00;29;56;19 Unknown because if you've got to trust right next to it and then you try to adjust that art like you are stuck. 00;29;57;23 - 00;30;04;22 Unknown can does is it already has that space taken into consideration. So I hear what you're saying and 00;30;04;22 - 00;30;07;05 Unknown yeah, yeah. 00;30;07;08 - 00;30;14;29 Unknown What about, exterior lighting? Do you guys do you, do you also with exterior, landscape lighting, exterior up lighting, things like that? 00;30;14;29 - 00;30;33;28 Unknown yeah. Houston weather is just horrible on landscape lighting. But yes, we do, up lighting path lighting. One of my favorite things is to define the back of the yard. So you actually, you know, when you do good landscape lighting, you're pulling the outside in, 00;30;33;28 - 00;30;35;03 Unknown you know, you're 00;30;35;03 - 00;30;40;14 Unknown able to enjoy the your exteriors at night when you're home. 00;30;40;28 - 00;30;41;20 Unknown It's all black 00;30;41;20 - 00;30;44;17 Unknown back there, it's kind of, you know, your window is the edge of your home. 00;30;44;18 - 00;31;03;05 Unknown Yeah. My pet peeve with exterior lighting is when people just start cramming a bunch of recessed lights into their soffits without regard for what are the what are you trying to accomplish with these lights? What are you highlighting? And you drive by these houses at night and you just have all these little halos of light, all, all the way across the front of the structure. 00;31;03;05 - 00;31;05;14 Unknown Yeah, yeah. What do you advertising here? 00;31;05;14 - 00;31;14;23 Unknown Yeah, I've seen a lot of those. Especially nowadays, they. Somebody has got this stuff out that, you put it in the soffits and they can change 00;31;14;23 - 00;31;16;03 Unknown colors. Yes. 00;31;16;03 - 00;31;22;25 Unknown You know, we had a, 17,000 square foot house out in, high metal ranch that he wanted to do that. 00;31;22;25 - 00;31;25;15 Unknown And I went to the designer said, hey, please 00;31;25;15 - 00;31;27;09 Unknown can. 00;31;27;09 - 00;31;29;25 Unknown because it looks horrible. 00;31;29;25 - 00;31;31;10 Unknown Yeah. It 00;31;31;10 - 00;31;33;14 Unknown does. It's it's kind of a gimmick, I think. 00;31;33;14 - 00;31;34;02 Unknown Yeah. 00;31;34;02 - 00;31;46;20 Unknown it'll probably be a fad that passes. It's better if you want to do something like that to do kind of a hidden, LED line of light that could change color if you wanted, 00;31;47;12 - 00;31;49;23 Unknown but not where you're actually looking at it. 00;31;49;27 - 00;31;50;19 Unknown Yeah. 00;31;50;19 - 00;32;02;04 Unknown it looks like Christmas lights. It looks like, a circus. You know, one of the things I'm really keen on is not over lighting, and you can get too many lights 00;32;02;04 - 00;32;02;26 Unknown 00;32;02;26 - 00;32;10;01 Unknown I'm not like the soffit. Putting too many lights in the soffit just looks horrible. And I'd rather upload the house. 00;32;10;01 - 00;32;11;11 Unknown Yeah. Me too. 00;32;11;11 - 00;32;11;24 Unknown from the ground. 00;32;11;24 - 00;32;16;17 Unknown I'd rather have the lights up, lighting so that you're not looking up into them. 00;32;16;17 - 00;32;32;06 Unknown Yeah. And as you know, those are easier to replace in the future. Like you said, the weather here sucks. And and the outdoor lighting has issues, with weather sometimes. So those are real easy to replace if they're in the ground and accessible versus a soffit that might be 20, 30ft in the air. 00;32;32;06 - 00;32;39;16 Unknown And it's a it's not. Yeah. It's an act of Congress to get up there and change a changeable bulb or rewire or something. 00;32;39;16 - 00;32;53;11 Unknown Yeah. The only, the only, educational piece about landscape lighting that I'd like to put out there is just know that there's, maintenance, meaning that, like, plants that grow up in front of your lights and they're not doing anything anymore. 00;32;53;14 - 00;33;01;20 Unknown So you've got to actually have a do a little maintenance, select your sprinkler system. You can't just leave it. You've got to do some maintenance on it over the over time. 00;33;01;20 - 00;33;02;10 Unknown Right? 00;33;02;10 - 00;33;04;02 Unknown The lighting is the same way. You know, it's 00;33;04;02 - 00;33;23;22 Unknown Lights and lights and trees. Trees grow. Trees grow around wires. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So budget wise, you know, I think that, you know, we touched on kind of why why people might not, want to use a lighting designer or why people are may have been hesitant in the past. 00;33;23;22 - 00;33;43;29 Unknown Right. They part of it's an awareness thing. They don't know that that service is either available or accessible to them. But I think that they think that it might just add a lot of money to their budget. And so I think some builders are blessed to work with clients with bottomless pocketbooks. But most of us have to deal with budgets. 00;33;43;29 - 00;33;57;13 Unknown I mean, I think everyone deals with a budget on some level. How do you handle that? I mean, how how do you work with a client? Who. It's not the bottomless pocketbook guy, but they want good design. Like, how do you establish budgets and work with clients like that? 00;33;57;14 - 00;34;11;10 Unknown So we work on a square footage basis. And there's so a set up for a house below 5000ft² is kind of similar to the set up for a house over 00;34;11;10 - 00;34;12;08 Unknown 5000ft². 00;34;12;08 - 00;34;29;26 Unknown So we charge more for one, you know, from 0 to 5000. And then a certain rate for zero from 5 to 10,000. And then when they get above 10,000 we kind of have to, you know, you know, if it's a 20,000 square foot house, we have to work a little bit 00;34;29;26 - 00;34;31;14 Unknown with that with us. Sure. 00;34;31;14 - 00;34;34;13 Unknown But, it's based on the square footage. 00;34;34;13 - 00;34;41;07 Unknown But I think when you look at it in the overall cost of the house, like, how much did you pay that architect? 00;34;41;07 - 00;34;42;04 Unknown Yeah, 00;34;42;04 - 00;34;53;02 Unknown I mean, and the architects are starting to understand, that some of our architects like our three, they just build it into their the cost of their their design. 00;34;53;07 - 00;34;54;11 Unknown Yeah. That's smart. Yeah. 00;34;54;11 - 00;35;01;08 Unknown And so some of them are starting to realize that, you know, they know they're not experts in lighting. 00;35;01;11 - 00;35;29;21 Unknown So what we do is we come in, we're just making the work better. And they understand that, partnering with, a lighting designer is crucial. You know, they're they just don't. They've got so many details to keep up with that they would rather have somebody else be focusing on that. It's like dimming systems. We I used to actually design the dimming system, program the dimming system, all 00;35;30;16 - 00;35;38;15 Unknown Not today. It's too complicated. And we have enough to focus on on just the lighting design and all the specifics of that, 00;35;38;15 - 00;35;39;04 Unknown 00;35;39;04 - 00;35;57;15 Unknown that, we partner with other companies, we bring partners to bring them in to do what? Design the system, program the system. And then I'm going to want to walk with them and adjust the system because I understand, like the best way to use it. 00;35;57;18 - 00;36;21;07 Unknown And people, you know, a lot of people are afraid of dimming systems because they've had bad experiences. Or they just think that, oh, that's too complicated. A good dimming system is not complicated. It's simple. It's going to the wall. I like to do pretty simple, settings of morning, evening. Entertained. Good night. Good bye. You know, kitchen. 00;36;21;10 - 00;36;28;03 Unknown Just like simple. A few regular one, buttons and then a couple of specialty buttons, and that's it. 00;36;28;03 - 00;36;28;27 Unknown Yeah. 00;36;28;27 - 00;36;41;28 Unknown And I have a very simple dimming system on my, the, my, like, art lights come on at dusk. So there's always a little bit of light in the house at, at, when it gets dark. 00;36;43;08 - 00;37;02;09 Unknown If we're not in bed by midnight, they go out. I did the same thing. I have I have some smart lighting on a on a on a timer. This program to. Come on, and the same thing. It comes on it at dusk, and it turns off at 1130 at night. And, you know, as I said, just about that. 00;37;02;12 - 00;37;26;09 Unknown Yeah. So budget wise, I mean, if I see this happen quite often, and it's no knock on designers of any sort, architects, lighting or interior designers, because, you know, your job is to listen to the client feedback, understand what they want, and give that to them. I think sometimes people, you know, have a have a really good taste on a budget. 00;37;26;09 - 00;37;49;01 Unknown And so we get to the end and they're like, oh, well, that, that, that lighting package or whatever that is, is being designed there is, is more than I can afford right now. You know, can you kind of go back and say, okay, this is your this is your wish list here, some alternative products here, some ways to compress that budget a little bit to get you where you know where you need to be. 00;37;49;05 - 00;37;50;08 Unknown Another great recent 00;37;50;08 - 00;38;10;08 Unknown piece of lighting designer is that we can we can do exactly that. You will get in and we'll try to find out ahead of time. In the beginning, you know, where where are we at with a budget? Like what? What do you want best? Good or the, you know, standard. And, if the client gets in. 00;38;10;08 - 00;38;25;29 Unknown So. Wow, this is really more than I was thinking. Then we can adjust. But the thing is that the old lighting design, you know, a recessed can is a $3 trim, a, $5 can and, $7 bulb 00;38;25;29 - 00;38;29;10 Unknown doesn't play out. No, it doesn't. I mean, 00;38;29;10 - 00;38;43;25 Unknown a standard light, you know, you can do, like I said, you can do a nine, $10 can and, 15 to $20 trim and get away with being, you know, your secondary areas, but not your the areas that are really nice. 00;38;43;27 - 00;38;46;11 Unknown You want something a little higher. Higher end. 00;38;46;11 - 00;39;03;00 Unknown Yeah. I'm sure that you can save some money just by by not over lighting. Right. But by not having a million cans, you know, like get the appropriate number of cans for, for what you're trying to accomplish, and for and for the space. So you might not need ten in the living room. 00;39;03;00 - 00;39;09;04 Unknown You might have 4 to 6 might be good, depending on the size of the room and the ceiling heights and all that kind of stuff. Right. The other thing, you know, and for 00;39;09;04 - 00;39;11;16 Unknown lighting designer's nightmare. These really high ceilings. 00;39;11;16 - 00;39;12;14 Unknown Yeah. 00;39;12;14 - 00;39;19;24 Unknown Because one, you're only going to get up there once to adjust it and two, who wants to get up to change the ball. 00;39;21;02 - 00;39;26;02 Unknown and having enough light to get down and be able to aim at where you want is super important. 00;39;26;06 - 00;39;42;01 Unknown Yeah. The, the the the 20 or 30ft living room ceilings that that little, four inches has can it's probably not doing a whole lot of work 30ft in the air. You know, you're basically seeing the oh, there's gotta light up there in the ceiling. 00;39;42;01 - 00;39;42;13 Unknown Right. 00;39;42;13 - 00;39;48;13 Unknown But we do use three inch recess cans that have 20, 2500 lumens. 00;39;48;13 - 00;39;49;01 Unknown And 00;39;49;01 - 00;39;51;28 Unknown we can, with the right optic, get the light down 00;39;51;28 - 00;39;52;23 Unknown right. 00;39;52;23 - 00;40;04;21 Unknown So the new the new thing about LED lighting is we use a can where it's a recessed can. It's got the chip in it, the LED chip. Then we've got a trim. But we also have an optic. 00;40;05;05 - 00;40;07;18 Unknown And then optic is shaping. 00;40;07;18 - 00;40;15;09 Unknown So when we go through and do the adjustments we're changing that optics to get, you know, to get that sculpting with light feel 00;40;15;09 - 00;40;27;12 Unknown All right so you kind of wrap things up I just kind of have a few last few questions I want to kind of do quickly kind of rapid fire. 00;40;27;15 - 00;40;36;01 Unknown What's the next big, big innovation that you've seen? That's impacting the light? You know, the lighting industry today. And what do you see coming down the road? 00;40;36;01 - 00;41;02;24 Unknown Well, it's control for sure. More and more we're having all our houses are smart houses. Our appliances are smart, our homes are smart. We're able to Wi-Fi in and change things in the house. So dimming systems that are that work well with what the function of the home and the the computerization of our home environment. 00;41;02;26 - 00;41;17;09 Unknown One of the things that in design is we're starting to use a lot of linear lines of light instead of having a bunch of recess cans. I mean, if you if you watch any sci fi at all today, you'll see all of this where it's all lines of light 00;41;17;09 - 00;41;18;03 Unknown Yeah. 00;41;18;03 - 00;41;23;23 Unknown and the cool thing is you have one power source, so you're not having to pull power all over the place. 00;41;24;01 - 00;41;47;01 Unknown You've got a power source, and you can do some pretty fun things today where it goes across the ceiling, down the wall. Then you've got a design on the wall with it or goes down a hallway. That's one of the things that people are moving for color. Color is another thing. I think that people are starting to realize how affected they are by color, and wanting a little bit of color in their homes. 00;41;47;01 - 00;42;13;18 Unknown You know what? Hey, I saw a house down the street, and he has all these bulbs in it that, like, are different colors at different times. And, so I think color is coming in and then, miniaturizing everything is getting smaller. So the, the cans are getting smaller. The, the, the everything is just getting smaller so that, that the source of light isn't as big. 00;42;13;21 - 00;42;29;08 Unknown And then the last thing I really think is, the most cutting edge of anything that's happening today is that Lutron kettle lighting. And the price is coming down slowly, but they've now just put out a two inch product that is amazing, totally amazing. 00;42;29;08 - 00;42;37;24 Unknown All right. What, what advice would you give to construction professionals in Houston? So builders, architects regarding lighting design, 00;42;37;24 - 00;42;42;29 Unknown make sure your clients have it and then use it. 00;42;43;01 - 00;42;58;06 Unknown Don't just, think that when the plan is done that you're done with that lighting designer, you know, use them to come out to the job. You know, there are multiple phases. We have like three site visits into all of our contracts, sometimes more if it's a really big house. 00;42;58;06 - 00;42;58;23 Unknown 00;42;58;23 - 00;43;07;07 Unknown But coming out, like you said, that walk when the cans are in super important, making sure that the lighting or the, electrician understands the plan. 00;43;07;13 - 00;43;33;16 Unknown Super important. Then you get to the stage where you're doing the wiring for any LED lighting, strip lighting, you know, that's all the where the drivers go that needs to be thought out. And then specialty lighting, lighting, stone, all of that. And then and this is some of the things that, that, that what I talked about the most important thing builders forget to remind their client that we need to adjust this at the end. 00;43;33;16 - 00;43;34;09 Unknown 00;43;34;09 - 00;43;39;18 Unknown And that's so those are the things that I think the builder really needs to keep in mind. 00;43;39;25 - 00;43;54;05 Unknown I'm glad you said that, because, you know, again, I got this these plans, Mach three. We're actually about to start that project. And I didn't even know that site visits and all that stuff. We're kind of included in that package. They didn't tell me. So. Hey. And now I know we're starting to do that with the 00;43;54;05 - 00;43;56;22 Unknown builders. We're starting to like, remind them that, hey, 00;43;56;22 - 00;43;57;20 Unknown Yeah. 00;43;57;20 - 00;44;20;02 Unknown And I just got another, project from them last week, so I haven't. It's early on. They haven't gotten to that yet, so I'm sure that, No. Now, this is this is one in Sugarland. So I'm sure that, that I'll be seeing, you know, I'm out on that job as well. So, so what what what questions should a homeowner ask when hiring a lighting designer? 00;44;20;02 - 00;44;41;24 Unknown Asked to see their work? Asked them, about their experience. And find out, like, are there any hidden costs? You know, like. Like what? What is your usual contract look like? How many site visits, how many revisions? How many? 00;44;41;29 - 00;44;58;19 Unknown You know, all of these things are really important because, lighting designers, you know, I don't know why, but our art field has gotten a bad rep that lighting designers that take take advantage of people. So be really clear about what the contract says and what it means. 00;44;59;10 - 00;45;04;08 Unknown we actually send out with our contracts a step by step process of about. 00;45;04;14 - 00;45;16;27 Unknown I think it's about 12 different steps of what happens, on our projects. And I think that really helps people to understand why it's not just, oh, this can be $1,000 thing. 00;45;17;07 - 00;45;17;18 Unknown Yeah. 00;45;17;18 - 00;45;24;19 Unknown You know, it's a it's a complicated process. And you want somebody that knows that's thinking about that. 00;45;24;19 - 00;45;26;23 Unknown Do you guys actually sell any products? 00;45;26;23 - 00;45;27;01 Unknown No. 00;45;27;05 - 00;45;39;29 Unknown Okay. So I think that's one of the in my mind, one of the things that sets you apart is that you're not trying to push a product that you're selling. I know some other designers, if they specify something, they want you to buy it through them. 00;45;40;02 - 00;45;45;23 Unknown And so, you know, there's, there's kind of some, some motive there to, to upsell. Right? So, 00;45;45;23 - 00;45;46;21 Unknown we don't want to do that 00;45;46;21 - 00;45;47;25 Unknown because know that makes us 00;45;47;25 - 00;45;48;25 Unknown responsible for the product. 00;45;48;25 - 00;45;49;24 Unknown Right. 00;45;49;24 - 00;45;56;17 Unknown And if something goes wrong, you're calling us. We don't we've got enough. We got our hands full doing design work, 00;45;56;17 - 00;45;56;29 Unknown Yeah. 00;45;56;29 - 00;46;01;18 Unknown and you're the one that should be buying the product because it's. You're the one that's guaranteeing the house, 00;46;01;18 - 00;46;13;20 Unknown Right? Exactly. 100% agree. What are some, some future projects that you have coming up that you're excited about? And anything, anything, anything that you can talk about or anything on the books that's really cool. 00;46;13;20 - 00;46;23;12 Unknown we've got this one project that we've been working on for quite a few years that, is just finishing up, and it is a piece of art. 00;46;23;15 - 00;46;36;26 Unknown The house is, 32,000ft². It was designed by one of the the best, contemporary architects in Houston. His his work is exquisite, and it's got a bowling alley in it. It's 00;46;36;26 - 00;46;37;17 Unknown Wow, 00;46;37;17 - 00;46;47;00 Unknown swimming pool. We put a bunch of this ketchup lighting in it. And we've done some just really fun stuff. Can't wait for it to be done. 00;46;47;00 - 00;46;54;15 Unknown We've got a turntable, car display, room where you drive in the car, turns around 00;46;54;15 - 00;46;58;25 Unknown I've heard about this house. From. From? Yeah, from someone else. Yeah. 00;46;58;25 - 00;47;12;11 Unknown yeah. So we're really excited about that house being finished. We just finished a house in, down in, Nassau Bay. That was a book. Same architect really came out beautiful. 00;47;12;13 - 00;47;19;10 Unknown Houses that are coming up. We've got a house we're doing. It's a cabin in, Canada on an island. 00;47;19;10 - 00;47;20;09 Unknown Oh. Well. 00;47;20;09 - 00;47;23;17 Unknown And so, that's a kind of a fun project. 00;47;23;17 - 00;47;25;15 Unknown Do you get to go there and do a site visit? 00;47;25;16 - 00;47;26;05 Unknown I hope so, 00;47;27;20 - 00;47;29;17 Unknown I'm not positive, but I hope so. 00;47;29;17 - 00;47;31;09 Unknown take a canoe out there to check out the lighting, 00;47;31;09 - 00;47;34;06 Unknown Actually, she said during the wintertime, they just drive across the ice. 00;47;34;06 - 00;47;44;19 Unknown Oh, wow, that's so cool. All right, so what's the what's the one thing that you want people to take away from this conversation about about adding design other than do it? 00;47;44;19 - 00;48;02;26 Unknown Yeah. Well, I mean yeah, do it, but don't be afraid of lighting designers. It's, it is actually, we just use our video yesterday. We just we're putting you just put out a video that, we it's not a Martin Sunday Designs sales video. 00;48;02;28 - 00;48;29;03 Unknown It's an educational video about. We interviewed an architect, a designer, a builder and a homeowner. And it's what I want people to know is that it's to be educated. You spend all this money on a beautiful home. Well, enjoy the home. Be able to see it. The lighting design is not that expensive. It just needs to be put into the budget early. 00;48;29;05 - 00;48;43;06 Unknown That's why when you asked when it's like early. So with our three, you know Bryson's, he's calling us on every job before he's sending out his proposals. Because that way it's built in. 00;48;43;06 - 00;48;43;22 Unknown Yeah. 00;48;43;22 - 00;48;57;08 Unknown You know, it's not of some surprise. Oh, I'm going to I'm going to have to pay this much money. So just understand that, like it is crucial to having a great home to have good lighting design. 00;48;57;14 - 00;49;23;22 Unknown One of the things that we talk about on this podcast all the time is, is the importance of building your team early. You know, and you know, you're just one more member of that team that should be assembled as early as possible. You know, it's, you know, when you're hiring the the architect, the builder or the interior designer, landscape architect, all the all these people that are involved in, in executing, well, a, a luxury home especially. 00;49;23;22 - 00;49;39;25 Unknown But really, any home, it doesn't have to be a luxury home. It can be in any price range of home. But building that team is just is key. So the more information that we as builders have early on in the process, the more successful it's going to be, 00;49;39;25 - 00;49;41;19 Unknown Absolutely, absolutely. 00;49;41;19 - 00;49;46;17 Unknown So I'm, I'm really excited to work with you, on these couple of projects that we have coming up. 00;49;46;17 - 00;49;49;03 Unknown It'll be our first ones together. So, I'm thrilled. 00;49;49;03 - 00;49;49;21 Unknown Awesome. 00;49;49;21 - 00;50;14;12 Unknown But. Yeah, well, one thing that I wanted to say was that, I feel like, you know, the restaurant world, the hospitality world. You know, hotels have been kind of like, light years ahead of homes in in lighting design, for the last forever. Really? It seems like you always go into restaurants and see really cool lighting. 00;50;14;18 - 00;50;28;08 Unknown I think now there's more of a demand for seeing that kind of stuff in the home. People are realizing that, hey, I can do that here, too. I don't have to just go to this fancy restaurant to see this. It's actually easy. Yeah, it's very easy. It's just 00;50;28;08 - 00;50;30;28 Unknown understanding how to do it is the key. 00;50;30;29 - 00;50;44;01 Unknown Yeah. Well, and the products that are available now, I mean, just like, again, the old table, all the new technology, the control systems, it's made everything much more accessible than it was ten, 20 years ago. 00;50;44;01 - 00;50;45;15 Unknown And not that expensive. 00;50;45;15 - 00;50;47;07 Unknown No, this comes down to 00;50;47;07 - 00;50;55;16 Unknown eight, $9 a foot. I mean, it's it's great. And tape that doesn't have the dot, chip on board stuff is is fantastic. 00;50;55;16 - 00;50;56;04 Unknown Yeah. 00;50;56;04 - 00;50;59;06 Unknown And then the, the LED panels, those are amazing 00;50;59;06 - 00;51;07;08 Unknown Yeah. There's just so much that we can do now that that we couldn't do or couldn't do. Well, before that's really just opened up a whole new world. 00;51;07;08 - 00;51;15;14 Unknown And so, it takes hiring a professional that, that, that knows those products to, to pull that off. So, you know, our motto is let us let it through life. 00;51;15;14 - 00;51;22;15 Unknown And we, we have a mission which is to light up people's life lives through the use of light technology. 00;51;22;18 - 00;51;36;02 Unknown So we're we're kind of a we have a little bit of spirituality to our company. We we're, we're working with light. I mean, we want to be a company that not only is doing a good job at what we do, but also fun to work with. 00;51;36;02 - 00;51;40;21 Unknown I love it, Martin, thank you so much for being with us today. I really appreciate you coming. 00;51;40;21 - 00;51;42;06 Unknown Thank you. Thank you colors for asking 00;51;42;06 - 00;51;46;16 Unknown It's been a fun conversation. So, and thank you all for listening and watching today. 00;51;46;19 - 00;51;50;02 Unknown Hope to see you again soon on the Your Project Denver podcast. Take care.