00:00:00:03 - 00:00:24:16 Speaker 1 You know, one thing I'm, I see is there is less thought about the scale of the way that we're building more of in the urban fabric. We're losing the kind of historical typologies. Those neighborhoods are changing so drastically. A lot of these big homes that are just plopped into these urban properties that just don't belong there. 00:00:24:18 - 00:00:52:13 Speaker 1 And allowing for families to kind of develop in manners that meet their needs, but not over developing in a manner that we're kind of changing that fabric so drastically that we're losing that kind of idea of what our neighborhoods used to be. I don't know. I think as architects and designers and builders, I think we can actually design in a manner that that kind of fits those neighborhoods in a sense. 00:00:52:15 - 00:01:15:00 Speaker 1 And that fits the needs and demands of the families that are moving in there. There's so many different ways of attacking it, and I'm always focused on that with clients on how to salvage that kind of, kind of historical identity, of what that neighborhood is, and kind of rethinking how that property and the home will work for their needs from now all the way down the road. 00:01:15:02 - 00:01:48:02 Speaker 2 Welcome back, friends, to your project Shepherd podcast. I am Curtis Lawson with Shepherd Construction Advisors and crafted custom Homes, and I'm your host, as always, joined today by Brett Zamora with Brett Moore Design here in Houston. And we are here to talk about ADUs today, accessory dwelling units. And I invited Brett because in addition to being a fantastic architect architect overall, he has some super cool products which kind of fit into the can fit into the Adu category, as well as filling many other, roles. 00:01:48:04 - 00:02:01:02 Speaker 2 But, I wanted to kind of relate his products to that, but then also kind of get into other uses and kind of where they come for it came from and all that stuff. So Brett, thanks for joining us today. 00:02:01:02 - 00:02:01:21 Speaker 1 Yeah. Thank you. 00:02:01:23 - 00:02:03:13 Speaker 2 I really appreciate you being on the show. 00:02:03:18 - 00:02:17:23 Speaker 1 I appreciate being here that you what you're doing is awesome because it's the city needs and site fulness. As to the building industry and all the different kind of, you know, trades that are part of it. And what we're doing, I mean, this is a pretty innovative city that we have. 00:02:18:03 - 00:02:24:17 Speaker 2 It is. So tell us it tell us about your, your company. What about you and your background and your company? What you guys do? 00:02:24:23 - 00:02:53:03 Speaker 1 Originally, I'm from the northeast. Moved here in 95 to go to grad school at Rice Architecture. And, during grad school, I really got excited about some of the old historic typologies that were very small, from shotgun style homes and, homes that, you know, really kind of were, were part of the landscape. I would say, you know, unconditioned homes that really dealt with the harsh and hard climate that we have. 00:02:53:03 - 00:03:12:19 Speaker 1 And, I really, you know, kind of focused on that, took that into my thesis when I was in my final year and, finished up in 99 and, ended up doing, a project that, I think really became a precedent for a lot of what I'm doing or what I'm trying to kind of work off of. 00:03:12:19 - 00:03:43:14 Speaker 1 I would say, trying to create successful and unique housing in all different types for different needs. And, you know, one thing I've, I've been able to kind of really kind of succeed in is understanding coming in as someone new into this city back in 95 and really seeing how the city has changed and morphed considerably, from the way technology has changed from, you know, medical to technology, how the energy industry changed. 00:03:43:19 - 00:04:11:22 Speaker 1 But how our cities exploded in population. And that has created a lot of demands of different needs, not just in architecture, but in everything infrastructure, you can name it. But also how our neighborhoods have neighborhoods have changed the fabric of our neighborhoods. The demands to move kind of near downtown. But there's also still these great demands for people who want to move way beyond the city, I would say. 00:04:12:00 - 00:04:39:23 Speaker 1 But I was, you know, graduating 99. I ended up working for an architect for about eight years. And during that time I was still doing my own stuff. And I was fortunate to kind of move from a thesis into actually designing, I would say a, a, a housing model that is very modest, very small, where I've actually kind of pushed that into developing these kid homes. 00:04:39:23 - 00:05:16:20 Speaker 1 And I would say, now I'm doing some prefab work. But really focusing on these smaller housing units that could actually be, you know, a main house or really kind of these secondary housing units. I ended up starting my office back in 2007. And, you know, we are we're a little bit of a think tank. We're always trying to kind of stop, rethink what we're doing better in some ways, and kind of push to that next step of kind of developing new housing that meets demand, that, there's so much demand of different types of housing in the city right now. 00:05:16:22 - 00:05:20:22 Speaker 2 So you guys just just do residential projects. Do you do commercial as well? 00:05:20:23 - 00:05:59:18 Speaker 1 We do commercial. We also do some somewhat institutional. The, the different types of projects that we do in the office vary from it's crazy from like 2 to 300 square foot projects. All the way up to, you know, 20 plus thousand square feet. So we're also working, you know, with, landscape architects and doing pavilions and park systems, which are small based projects, in a sense, for us, but they actually really connect to larger, landscape projects and, learning a lot from that. 00:05:59:18 - 00:06:25:17 Speaker 1 So, you know, the variation of different types of projects that we do in the office kind of is what excites us. We're not really kind of doing a, a Lego style project in which we're just repeating for different clients, everything is constantly different. But with the kid homes that we do and our prefabs, we do have these base, plans, and they're always customized by our clients. 00:06:25:17 - 00:06:27:05 Speaker 1 It's what typically happens. 00:06:27:05 - 00:07:04:15 Speaker 2 Yeah. One thing that you said a minute ago about, you know, you came here from the northeast and, and kind of dove into the looking at the history of Houston architecture, housing. I'm sure it's a different perspective of somebody coming into a city fresh versus someone who's lived here their whole life. Because I think sometimes when you live in a in a place your whole life, you kind of have blinders on and you're, it's you've been there and you're ingrained and you're not really coming in and and looking at it from a broad perspective, you're you're kind of looking at the way that you've always looked at it, I guess, is what 00:07:04:15 - 00:07:05:04 Speaker 2 I'm saying. 00:07:05:04 - 00:07:45:05 Speaker 1 I really do. I feel like I've seen this city cutting kind of gone through. It's the biggest change within the shortest period of time. And so coming back, coming out here in 95 and this was, you know, the city was things were slow, things were really slow. But since that time, I mean the explosion of development, the changes, the change of the fabric of the urban kind of inner urban areas, the neighborhoods from, you know, near rice all the way down to the, into the Heights, everything is kind of just exploded in a way where things that you remember back well, now, you no longer remember back in 95, which are no longer 00:07:45:05 - 00:08:16:09 Speaker 1 there, or what was nothing has become something in a sense. I remember just open fields throughout the city that now have been developed from large housing developments. And I think that's what's actually spurred on. I mean, with the growth of population, housing has become kind of one of the number one, industries within the city. The need for housing, it's it's just still it's still going, it's still exploding, which blows my mind away. 00:08:16:11 - 00:08:38:06 Speaker 2 Yeah. And so kind of kind of that, that infill development, that or infill redevelopment and kind of the lack of available land, and then kind of coupled with, you know, the, the lots that were already platted within the city, like, you know, the heights, Montrose, whatever. There's a, there's inner, inner loop urban areas. Those are very small lots. 00:08:38:06 - 00:09:02:18 Speaker 2 You know, they're they're usually, you know, let's say the average is 5000, but there's 2 or 3000ft² lots in there that we're dealing with, right? Yeah. And so when we're dealing with these small properties, you know, when people look at how can I, you know, best utilize this small property, whether it's my, my family's growing or I've got extended family who needs to move in with me for some reason or for me to, to keep living here, to afford to live here. 00:09:02:18 - 00:09:22:00 Speaker 2 I've got to create some additional income. Yeah. In order to stay in this place. Right. How can I work with the property that I have? Right. And so I think that's that's kind of the where I wanted to take part of this conversation today was how do we take these small properties, you know, put another structure on them? 00:09:22:02 - 00:09:26:17 Speaker 2 How can how can we work with what we have to, to do to meet people's needs? 00:09:26:18 - 00:09:56:11 Speaker 1 Yeah, it this is something also that's pretty new to the city because with building codes and restrictions and requirements, we were never, you know, allowed to have a third structure. You know, you can have a garage and a house, but you can never have a third structure. So the city's starting to adopt, you know, new modes of thinking and saying, hey, this is fine, because we do have, you know, the city's growing, we have certain demands, but we also need to be thoughtful about, you know, the problems we have of flooding. 00:09:56:11 - 00:10:20:11 Speaker 1 You have to have a certain amount of impervious, pervious areas to deal with large amounts of water that we have to, you know, the rains that we got. But the mentality is, yeah, people want people live within these urban areas, these lots are small. How do we deal with needs such as growing families? How do we deal with potential income that we can grab from another edition, whether it's attached to the house or whether it's detached? 00:10:20:11 - 00:11:02:09 Speaker 1 And how do we deal in a manner that, will help us kind of and make improvements to a property that will add value to the property? You know, we're trying to offer, in a sense, products that allow people to make this and facilitate this process in an easier way. Reduce architectural fees, but also kind of implement an opportunity to allow for this additional income or have a parent live on the property, or to utilize it for a workspace, or to utilize it for a studio, whatever it may be, or a storage space, whatever, whatever you need, you know, and I think you have to go back maybe five years. 00:11:02:09 - 00:11:34:12 Speaker 1 We had Covid, and Covid has changed the mentality of how we live. And that's another kind of, kind of push for a lot of people interested in having additional spaces that may have some privacy, whether it's a workspace or whatever that's not attached to the main house. But also I've had doctors who have contacted me and said, hey, I need a space for, my wife and I are both doctors, and we need a second space in case one of us gets sick. 00:11:34:14 - 00:12:12:00 Speaker 1 So there's quite a few demands in this in the urban area, and it's no different from we're doing a lot of these smaller based houses in rural areas, outside of the city, whether they're site built or getting prefabricated. But it you know, what I've had to do as an architect is to really listen and to figure out what the demands are, what the needs are, kind of follow suit in the sense where I'm able to deliver those needs and, trying to figure out how to better those products in a sense, to make it option, to make it a whether it's about affordability, whether it's about the type of housing they 00:12:12:00 - 00:12:34:06 Speaker 1 need for what use, whether it's something where it's more kind of, you know, a little house for a vacation out in the middle of the hill country, you know, so the list grows as to what those needs are. And what's kind of cool is we've been able to kind of supply all those, needs for different functions for different types of people. 00:12:34:08 - 00:12:55:15 Speaker 1 And so, you know, for us, I'm finding I'm able to offer new options for the demands that are out there. Which is kind of exciting and to kind of say, hey, we can make adjustments to these very simple buildings that we've designed to fill that need out there. 00:12:55:17 - 00:13:21:04 Speaker 2 Yeah. I have a friend who, who builds in in San Diego and a very large portion of his business in San Diego is, is just building ADUs. I think it's one of those things that other parts of the country that have maybe less land availability for growth around the city. You know, have have had a higher demand or higher, higher prices for land, in the city. 00:13:21:04 - 00:13:42:17 Speaker 2 So, you know, San Diego, Los Angeles, a lot of California ADUs are kind of like a standard thing they've been doing for a while, but it's kind of a newer, newer concept for used. And I think people maybe in the heights of have always looked at having a garage apartment or something like that, but. Yeah, but, I think now people are looking at, you know, how can I have something other than, a garage apartment? 00:13:42:17 - 00:13:59:22 Speaker 2 How can I create a whole other space on the property? I think we'll start with, with the, the SSC that you offer. Yeah. Talk about like like, you know, the evolution of that, and, you know, it kind of how that fits in for being used as an 80 or as a standalone structure either way. 00:14:00:00 - 00:14:26:17 Speaker 1 So, I got back in, like, you know, the or I would say the early 2000, I got excited about the old Sears Roebuck homes, and those were homes for people that don't know they were. You literally could get the old Sears Roebuck catalog and you can order one of their house plans. Yep. And what they would do is they would, have all the materials delivered by trains to a point and then delivered to your property. 00:14:26:18 - 00:14:46:00 Speaker 1 Literally, you had a kit of parts, and the builder would just be able to kind of build that in a sense, reduce. It would have a considerable reduced costs. But you'd have these beautiful, absolutely beautiful homes, that were built in a lot of these urban areas and suburban areas, you know, it didn't matter where they were built, where they were built. 00:14:46:01 - 00:15:09:13 Speaker 1 But, you know, there's quite a few Sears Roebuck homes throughout the city, actually. Yeah. And a lot of these older neighborhoods. And you also do find them in, in areas like, you know, even like out in Katy in the historical neighborhoods and, you know, some of the older outlining neighborhoods of the city. And so I was fascinated about, you know, simplifying construction. 00:15:09:15 - 00:15:57:21 Speaker 1 How can you offer a really beautiful product and simplify the methodology of construction? And so developing my first kit house for a client, actually, which was inspired by, a shotgun style dog trot idea. And I built that back in 2003. And, from that house, I was able to, even though it was customized and site built and, I was able to think about it in the design process about how to utilize standard building components from, you know, for by, you know, four by eight sheets of plywood, to standard lengths of materials, you know, widths every four feet, and trying to design a home that you almost didn't have any 00:15:57:21 - 00:16:33:00 Speaker 1 cutting of lumber. Bring that lumber out to be framed up. You reduce an incredible amount of the process of of construction, in a sense, and reducing waste, reducing time, thinking about the sustainability, of construction, and simplifying the house in a manner that will allow for a short and long term, approach to saving money from energy use, to kind of giving, allowing for the flexibility of growth as it's needed, number of bedrooms, baths, etc.. 00:16:33:05 - 00:17:07:01 Speaker 1 So from that house we developed quite a few different kit models. And so we've worked on, trying to deliver different housing plans for clients, but breaking it down where we understand the materials that are being actually utilized, from the framing materials to utilizing off the shelf products from cabinetry systems that are completely off the shelf, from utilizing windows systems and door systems that are completely standard, not customized. 00:17:07:03 - 00:17:35:16 Speaker 1 Having packages from tile, lighting, plumbing fixtures that are already set. If clients wanted to get those, everything from from all the way down to designing deck systems that utilize full length lumber so you don't have to make any cuts. So in a sense, we're able to deliver these packages. We work with quite a few different builders, and clients when they're and, you know, they can choose their own builder if they want to. 00:17:35:16 - 00:18:01:03 Speaker 1 But the intention is that you're simplifying, you're shortening the construction timeline. You know, if you're having to go out and you're having to get a mortgage for it, then you can actually have a much quicker construction timeline. So that reduces the actual length of the, the financing, and we're able to really target and get a very strong sense of reality, of cost. 00:18:01:05 - 00:18:23:10 Speaker 1 And we can make adjustments. You know, we've figured out different ways of making adjustments for, you know, if you want a higher level house or if you want a more affordable house, in a sense, so we've done it in many different ways. We just finished a house out in, over by the main IL, and we had a client who customized that house, so now to a level that he wanted. 00:18:23:10 - 00:18:43:06 Speaker 1 But, you know, really what we had was a shell, a framework that he worked with. And we were able to make adjustments to it to fit his needs. But it's a pretty high level, detailed house. And we've done it where we've had one of our kit homes was built for a family, after Katrina, Oprah Winfrey paid for the whole thing. 00:18:43:06 - 00:19:05:00 Speaker 1 She brought us in, and we did it for a family that lost their home during Katrina. She had this Amish group of young guys come down from Pennsylvania and literally build this thing in two days. It was incredible. And the finishing out of the house took about, I'd say about two months. So the house was built from start to finish in about three months. 00:19:05:03 - 00:19:41:03 Speaker 1 Wow. Yeah. And we've also been able to kind of, you know, adjust our models for the demands and the needs. We listened to people in a sense, and figuring out different ways for the kit homes to meet a larger audience. I would say, yeah. And that's the idea is like, how can I kind of develop these, you know, home plans in which, you know, think about, you know, my focus is sustainable, a really nice design, and homes that fit within different types of neighborhoods, you know, whether it's urban or suburban. 00:19:41:05 - 00:19:51:15 Speaker 1 Yeah. And so it's it's been, it's it's amazing. I think I've, I think we've done close to about 50 of these homes. And really what we're doing is, are selling home plans and giving different options. 00:19:51:18 - 00:19:51:23 Speaker 2 Right. 00:19:52:00 - 00:19:54:10 Speaker 1 How can we figure it out to make it work for you? 00:19:54:15 - 00:20:02:16 Speaker 2 So you're not actually, like, you're not selling a kit, right? Like you're not selling. Here's a precut lumber package. Right. It's, essentially like it's. 00:20:02:18 - 00:20:03:18 Speaker 1 It's a set of plans. 00:20:03:20 - 00:20:09:18 Speaker 2 Here's a, here's a materials take off the list. I would assume based on you just using standard dimension. Yep. Stuff. 00:20:09:19 - 00:20:38:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. So we're trying to what we're trying to e we're trying to simplify the, the, the level of construction, so that it makes it easier and for the builder and it reduces costs for the client. And it reduces the construction timeline considerably. Right? Yeah. And so, you know, it's for, for us, I mean, we we've been through it so many times for constantly, like, fine tuning it in a way that makes, it makes the, I'd say, the product even much better. 00:20:38:00 - 00:20:40:13 Speaker 1 The fact that we've been able to do it so many times, 00:20:40:15 - 00:20:48:00 Speaker 2 And are that are the plans expandable to where you could start off with, yeah, with a one bedroom plan and then kind of add on another module, so to speak. 00:20:48:00 - 00:21:15:16 Speaker 1 Yeah. We did a house out in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, where we started off with one of the homes, and then we created a conditioned extension off it and added a secondary one, which added an additional two bedrooms and a full bath, and then the main laundry space. So it you know, the intention. And, you know, I think modularity in a sense comes with that a little bit where we can create these modules that can actually expand, for the future, demanding needs for a family. 00:21:15:18 - 00:21:45:07 Speaker 1 So and you know, that's, that's, that's what I'm excited about with these products is that we're not building modular prefab, but we're building modular homes that allow for, for thinking about not short term, just long term. Also we're focused on sustainability. We're focused on pushing quality products within the homes. Things are changing dramatically all the time. So you know what I did back in 2010, let's say, with the kit homes, has changed dramatically from where we are right now. 00:21:45:09 - 00:22:07:23 Speaker 1 You know, I'm always kind of updating and adjusting these homes to meet the kind of changing of codes, changing demands for people. Like I said, Covid has impacted things dramatically. And so we're constantly as an architect and as you know, I'm a homeowner, too. I've got three kids. I'm, you know, I've got a wife who's like, no, you're doing it wrong, you know? 00:22:07:23 - 00:22:31:22 Speaker 1 So you've got to constantly think about not just about you can't think about yourself. You got to think about your audience. And what's cool is we always hear from that audience that large audience, you know, of what you know their needs are. And that's what should impact architects. It's you know, I don't do, you know, just large, massive housing, which was something that I learned about when I moved to Texas. 00:22:32:00 - 00:22:53:08 Speaker 1 It's like, oh, really? I mean, this these homes are massive. But but I think the mentality has changed. And so that's what's cool. I mean, for my practice, we do decent size homes also, you know, but what I'm trying to do is offer a, you know, these options, that palette of kind of colors that people can choose from. 00:22:53:10 - 00:22:58:10 Speaker 1 Because everyone's different. Their needs are different. Times always change, you know? 00:22:58:11 - 00:23:22:09 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, you know, obviously as a builder, we get asked to do some, some really big houses also. But I mean, I've seen over the last 20 years I've seen a big increase in, in requests for people that don't want the big house. They they value efficiency and they value, you know, not building their life savings on building a, you know, $2 million house. 00:23:22:09 - 00:23:23:01 Speaker 2 You know, they. 00:23:23:03 - 00:23:56:21 Speaker 1 You know, doing these smaller based homes. I mean, I have clients, I don't care. I mean, the reality is I have it's a service you have to figure out. You have to, you got to think about your clients and what their needs are, and you have to deliver those needs to them. And what I try to do is, you know, from learning about these smaller houses, the efficiencies of things, but also trying to figure out ways of making, smaller spaces feel larger, you know, and I feel like I have the ability to kind of have my clients think about, you know, we can build a little bit more modestly, but still feel like 00:23:56:21 - 00:23:58:06 Speaker 1 it's a very large space. 00:23:58:06 - 00:24:08:21 Speaker 2 Absolutely. I mean, we've done some of the shotgun type houses in the in the usual Heights area where the house is only 5000 square feet, but you walk in and it feels so much bigger than that. 00:24:09:02 - 00:24:28:12 Speaker 1 Yeah. And if you're taking advantage of opening up to the outdoors, if you're thinking about natural light and how that natural light comes in and out of the spaces, you know, if you're thinking about the flexibility and functionality of spaces, you know, one space doesn't necessarily have to be just for one thing. And like I said, things have changed. 00:24:28:12 - 00:24:53:01 Speaker 1 I mean, if you have children, I mean, it's amazing how kids can take over spaces or their lives can take over a space. And I think there are these, like, you know, used to be where loft spaces were big, having large open living dining room, kitchen spaces. But things are constantly changes. Now I, I'm, I'm, we're trying to figure out ways of of creating, separation of privacy within spaces. 00:24:53:01 - 00:25:19:08 Speaker 1 It's nice to have moments where you have a living room or a dining room that don't interact with those other spaces, and so, you know, for our smaller based projects, ones that we're doing as these ADUs behind homes and things like that, it's giving people also opportunities to have private moments, whether it's for a workspace or to give it to a mother in law suite or whether it may be so. 00:25:19:10 - 00:25:30:05 Speaker 1 And now with the code's changing, it's kind of cool with the ordinance changing, I would say not codes, but the city has adopted new ordinance that allows for additional units within a property. Yeah. 00:25:30:05 - 00:25:35:22 Speaker 2 Is it is there a max size on that is, you know, like like, 900ft² or something like that? 00:25:35:22 - 00:25:56:21 Speaker 1 It's no longer, you know, greater than 900 square foot conditioned space. Now that's it's pretty cool. We're doing the I think it may be the first, on a residential property in Montrose area. It's an m you are a multi-unit residence. And what it is, it's a garage apartment with two units above it. And it is a multi unit. 00:25:56:21 - 00:26:21:20 Speaker 1 We have to do the whole, you know, follow the fire rating codes, all that stuff. But it's behind an existing single family house. So we're, we're kind of going through a process of completely gutting renovating the existing house and creating. And this is all about how to create additional income. We're creating two units over the garage with a main stairwell that feeds to those two units. 00:26:21:22 - 00:26:32:17 Speaker 1 And there are efficiencies, but they're pretty darn cool. And it gives an opportunity to increase the amount of income that's coming into that property. 00:26:32:18 - 00:26:56:13 Speaker 2 Yeah. So when when you have a, Adu on a property, whether it's a extended family or a rental unit or whatever it is, I think there's there's this tension of, we want this extra space on the property, but we also need privacy for, for each, for each unit. How do how do you how do you balance providing that privacy that's needed? 00:26:56:15 - 00:27:24:08 Speaker 1 You have to you also have to look at, you know, how you're doing these, you know, accessory dwelling units and look at the site planning of the property too. You got to think about, I mean, where are we are car culture in the city. So everyone needs a car of course. And you got to think about parking. You've got to think about, you know, if someone's coming into a property, as a secondary unit, how to allow for privacy on the other units. 00:27:24:10 - 00:27:26:18 Speaker 1 So we do have to kind of think about. 00:27:26:21 - 00:27:28:10 Speaker 2 How. 00:27:28:12 - 00:27:50:05 Speaker 1 We, we look at the outdoor public spaces, in a sense, for one unit and the privacy of that unit, not to interrupt the lives of the other units. So we're very focused on that. We're not just trying to throw an 80 you onto a property, you know, and it does it does come with, work that has to be done to the property typically also. 00:27:50:05 - 00:28:11:10 Speaker 1 So you have to think about doing site work. And we're not just focused on the actual construction of a building. We're thinking about the entirety of that site, the design of landscaping it in the sense that offers clarity on how you move in, get in and get out of that property and consider, you know, the other private spaces around it. 00:28:11:12 - 00:28:40:04 Speaker 2 Yeah. So, I wanted to to, to touch also real quick on, on the, the Z fab, the, the fabricated, home, product that you guys have to, tell us about about that and what you kind of what the differences are between I mean, obviously one's a kit and one's a prefabricated house. What what's the what's that product and what's the what's the use case for that versus the the versus the kit home. 00:28:40:06 - 00:29:12:21 Speaker 1 So when I was doing, you know, the kit homes, I, I'd always been excited about this prefab movement. And you don't see much of it in Houston. Because again, we're, you know, labor costs are incredibly affordable building in an urban area like Houston. So to me, doing prefab in our city doesn't make any sense because the, you know, the return on investment, for site building just outweighs the whole prefab product. 00:29:12:23 - 00:29:40:21 Speaker 1 Because prefab you're dealing with, you've got to really thinking about how it's being built in a warehouse, and then you have a shipping model that you've got to actually ship from that warehouse all the way to a site. And there are complexities to that shipping process. Also. It's a very expensive process. But still, I was like, well, you know, I think it's something that also there is a there is a model there that makes sense. 00:29:40:23 - 00:30:08:09 Speaker 1 You know, depending on where you're doing it. But, you know, for me, I never was interested in having a factory myself. I don't think it makes sense. I mean, I think I'm good at doing what I do and then partnering up, like, I think, you know, I brought this up to you a little earlier was that, you know, you have to figure out how to do the things that you're best at and to work with the groups that, you know, that are doing the best themselves also. 00:30:08:11 - 00:30:31:15 Speaker 1 And I think that's you know, one thing I've done with the Z fabs is figure it out kind of an umbrella, of of different trades, of different resources, and trying to figure out how to create a network that would deliver something where there's a need and that is a for a prefab house. Initially I did get excited about prefab. 00:30:31:15 - 00:31:00:07 Speaker 1 I was like, okay, I'm going to try to like, figure out how to do this, but I'm going to site build them. So the first one that we did was my office actually in the Heights. And so, and I thought about building it in a manner I was like, okay, let me think about my site as kind of a warehouse and how I could do this similar to the kit homes where I'm utilizing off the shelf products, you know, from wood, lumber, you know, reduced cutting, reduced framing. 00:31:00:07 - 00:31:19:23 Speaker 1 So all the trades that I brought in, I minimize their kind of work, the amount of labor they have to do, trying to utilize standardized products and stuff like that. And then again, it doesn't have to be I mean, a lot of these kit homes and prefabs, we're doing custom that's custom cabinets, custom windows, things like that. Utilizing off the shelf. 00:31:19:23 - 00:31:48:00 Speaker 1 Everything's similar. What I learned from the kit homes. And but that was the I was able to stage the first one as my office, which worked out great. And just building that first one kind of was something. It was incredible marketing, I would say. And from there we've, we've done we've done about like 18 of them in Houston and we've done quite a few in the Hill Country. 00:31:48:02 - 00:32:06:23 Speaker 1 Outside of Austin. And we've also are in the process. We just finished our first prefab, that we built, not our first one, but our first long distance one out in the hill country, on the hill country in Marfa, Texas. 00:32:07:01 - 00:32:07:21 Speaker 2 West Texas, in. 00:32:07:22 - 00:32:35:08 Speaker 1 West Texas that had two prefabs on them. And we're doing one close by near the city up in, just just north by 99 of 290. And, we've got a company, we've got a couple of companies, one in Austin, one here in Houston that we work with. And so figuring and partnering with different pre fabricators is something that's really kind of helped us, you know, kickstart this. 00:32:35:08 - 00:32:41:15 Speaker 2 Project because there's a whole process for for getting a certified with a state to, to do those. Right. 00:32:41:15 - 00:33:02:22 Speaker 1 It's a very complex process. So you have to work with TLR, which is Texas Department of Licensing and Regulations. Yeah. And so that adds quite a bit of legwork to do also. So you have to work with engineers that are certified with them. And you got to go through this process in which every house that you're doing, if it's different, needs to be approved by TLR. 00:33:03:00 - 00:33:08:20 Speaker 1 And then you got to go through a process with the shipping. You got to get approval with TLR on that shipping. 00:33:09:01 - 00:33:13:09 Speaker 2 Is it essentially the same, the same kind of process as if you were building like mobile homes? 00:33:13:09 - 00:33:39:03 Speaker 1 Yeah. No different. Yeah. It depends on the size, whether you're doing modular homes, you know, whether it's mobile homes, whatever it may be. But the shipping model is kind of what you have certain constraints, widths, heights, lengths, all that stuff. You know, the costs vary depending if you're if you're over certain sizes, you have to actually have, you know, one, two, three of these large kind of cop cars or these, you know, cars following and all that stuff. 00:33:39:05 - 00:34:04:13 Speaker 1 And it gets to complexity. What we're trying to do with the, the ZF abs is, are my focus with the Z fab is to have these, like 99% complete in factory shipped to site foundations. All of the utilities are set your Lyriq. We're hydraulically dropping them on to foundation. And then making all the connections and that's it. 00:34:04:13 - 00:34:17:18 Speaker 1 And then you deal with site work, whether it's decks, landscaping, etc. but for the homes, my goal is to have these like literally, you know, 95% completed in the factory. 00:34:17:20 - 00:34:29:08 Speaker 2 It sounds like those would be great for, again, Marfa is a great example in an area that where there's there's not a Home Depot around the corner to pick up lumber. There's not a lumber yard nearby, or there's not the labor force. 00:34:29:08 - 00:34:53:07 Speaker 1 The labor force is the one of the biggest things. Supply is the other big thing. And to me, it makes sense to do these on the periphery, on the outside, outside of a county, in an area where there's less of that, you know, less of that kind of, you know, finding a general contractor who does all the site work, you know, and so I think that's you have to have this, like, network work and figure it out how to simplify that process. 00:34:53:07 - 00:35:18:08 Speaker 1 Where are you building it? Does it make sense to site build. It doesn't make sense to actually prefab it. What are the cost differences going to be. Quality. How are you going to get the best quality out of it. You know, as you know, as a builder and there's 100 different types of builders out there. And so what I try to preach to my clients is, you know, you have your architect, you've got your builder and you've got you guys. 00:35:18:08 - 00:35:43:23 Speaker 1 And I think that triangle, that relationship, that triangular relationship is so critical. What is your end product going to be. And that's something you need to decide. Is budget, you know, is your cost the most important thing or is the quality? How do you meet, you know, how do you meet all that. And I'm constantly trying to figure that out with, you know, custom work that we do to the prefabs, to the kit homes, whatever it may be. 00:35:44:00 - 00:35:50:17 Speaker 1 And try to create these partnerships, that are going to actually give the end user exactly what their goal is. 00:35:50:19 - 00:36:08:01 Speaker 2 It seems like the the busy fab product would be great for somebody who wanted to build like a, a small, like a rental community, almost like a, like an Airbnb. And whether it's the Hill Country or Marfa or whatever, they could go in and set ten foundations. 00:36:08:01 - 00:36:08:12 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:36:08:13 - 00:36:15:05 Speaker 2 Right. Have the have them ready. Boom. Set ten houses, connect them, and you're pretty much done and ready to ready to rent, right? 00:36:15:05 - 00:36:40:05 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, that's one audience, you know, it could be. And we've done one. We did one in San Marcos, Texas, in which was a couple in their daughter, one of our Z fabs. We had to, site build that because the complexity of the site wouldn't allow us to prefabricated. But we did go through an exhaustive process trying to figure out the best method to build for them. 00:36:40:07 - 00:37:07:12 Speaker 1 We've considered these housing for kind of higher end executive housing in the energy industry in areas where, you know, executives go out to, drilling shells and they try to, you know, they need nicer housing. The list goes on, whether, you know, a little vacation house out in the middle for a family rental, properties that are in really a beautiful, you know, an area where they can kind of do camping, hunting, whatever it may be. 00:37:07:12 - 00:37:35:19 Speaker 1 Yeah. Inner city, you know, so we're actually, a really cool project that meets a demand is we've designed a house, one of our kit homes, a large customized kit home for a family up in Conroe. And, you know, they said, you know what we would love? We live out here in Bel Air. But what we would love to do is get one of your have one of yours Z kits prefab located. 00:37:35:21 - 00:37:55:16 Speaker 1 And what we'll do is we'll live out there, we'll get that built, we'll live out there for just a little bit, and then we'll start construction on the May House. And so what we've done is we've designed this to be kind of a little pool house for the future, a guest pool house. And so we've site plan the entire property. 00:37:55:16 - 00:38:27:23 Speaker 1 So it really makes sense. And so we're able to kind of utilize I have to figure out how we're getting electrical electrical to it. Thinking about, you know, septic, and all that stuff. But everything, you know, the, the initial once we bring that prefab out there, we'll have everything set for the future house, too. So it kind of meets a, I would say it meets something that they feel is is going to be impactful for their lives, a need for their lives, for the short and the longer term. 00:38:27:23 - 00:38:53:01 Speaker 2 Yeah. I've, I've actually been considering building something in my backyard as an Adu type unit that initially could be a like a pool house, outdoor, you know, with a, with a covered outdoor living space. But that, that could then transition into being like housing for my parents as they get older. Yeah, right. So if I have a structure that's it can serve one purpose today. 00:38:53:01 - 00:39:01:08 Speaker 2 And then 5 or 10 years from now could serve another purpose that, you know, but that we're kind of planning for the future and has some flexibility there for us. 00:39:01:08 - 00:39:24:20 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, I've had, you know, our city everything had know it never happen. But I have had a client who is a, developer and who did speculative projects, but they had huge amounts of land, Midtown, that wasn't developed yet. And they're like, wow, we could take these things and put them on our property, you know, rent them out to artists, whatever it may be. 00:39:24:22 - 00:39:42:17 Speaker 1 Or people who needed, you know, housing for short term. We can rent them. And then when we sell these properties, we can pick them up and move them to another property that we have. And so, you know, again, the list, you know, the what you can utilize small housing for is just you can whatever you can think of, you can do it. 00:39:42:19 - 00:39:45:10 Speaker 1 Yeah. There's so many options. 00:39:45:10 - 00:39:54:23 Speaker 2 I hadn't thought about moving them down the road, but I mean, you know, we we see houses, you know, in town now get picked up and sold and and repurposed all the time. 00:39:54:23 - 00:39:59:10 Speaker 1 I mean, these homes were designed, you know, structurally to be picked up and moved. 00:39:59:11 - 00:40:00:11 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:40:00:13 - 00:40:07:22 Speaker 1 So, yeah, you could put them on a property and then if you feel like, hey, you know what, I'm going to sell that property or whatever. You pick it up, move it. Another property. 00:40:08:00 - 00:40:30:02 Speaker 2 Yeah. And so, kind of back to the Z fab, aside from labor, you know, being just cheap and used tonight, I would imagine the logistics of trying to, you know, because I'm thinking now about picking up a house and moving it, the logistics of moving a prefabricated house through the city, through narrow streets, stoplights, power lines, all that kind of stuff. 00:40:30:02 - 00:40:30:18 Speaker 1 That's the complex. 00:40:30:18 - 00:40:35:17 Speaker 2 There's some there's some logistics involved there that that we don't deal with if it's state built, obviously. 00:40:35:17 - 00:40:48:15 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah. That's where things get and that's where, you know, you're adding a big expense to a project is when you're building in an urban area and you got to figure out how to get that structure onto that site when you get to the site. Some of these streets are pretty narrow. How do you. 00:40:48:21 - 00:40:50:02 Speaker 2 Turn the corner with it? Yeah, in the. 00:40:50:02 - 00:41:14:02 Speaker 1 Corner with that for me, I've, I you know, I think it's just makes more sense to site build in urban areas. It just it gets very complex and very expensive to thinking about that shipping model, you know, and how to do it in a way where it makes sense for that user, you know, how do we do it where we were reducing the construction time, but get them the the need that they're they're asking for? 00:41:14:03 - 00:41:41:04 Speaker 1 I've been focused I took a business class from Goldman Sachs. I got into this program 10,000 small businesses, which had me really rethink about, you know, what I'm doing in my office, how to kind of figure out what the needs are for my clients, what new needs are, and how to kind of create more of a unique culture within my office on supplying different products to clients out there, a larger audience. 00:41:41:06 - 00:42:07:00 Speaker 1 And so, you know, for me, it's it's constantly rethink ING, you know, sitting down, listening to my clients and rethinking how to get things done a different manner. And if it's prefab, the idea of prefab, I think it's the idea, hey, let's, you know, prefabrication is cool, but you don't have to have it prefabricated, right? You could utilize off the shelf products that are built well, thoughtfully done to to somewhat give you that. 00:42:07:00 - 00:42:10:00 Speaker 2 It's more about simplifying rather than kind of prefabricated. 00:42:10:00 - 00:42:20:17 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, yeah. And for me I want a prefabricated where there is a challenge or it makes it there is a it's it's hard to get it done from site construction. 00:42:20:18 - 00:42:24:23 Speaker 2 Have you, have you ever checked into like like using panel systems. Yep. 00:42:24:23 - 00:42:25:20 Speaker 1 We do that with our kit. 00:42:25:20 - 00:42:26:22 Speaker 2 Homes like soaps or. 00:42:26:23 - 00:42:50:16 Speaker 1 So we did. Well, what we've done is we've worked with, we've worked with trust companies here in Houston, two of them, and we've done we did a, a series of kit homes on Center Street near the Heights, in which we had all the wall panels, all the trusses, floor system prefabricated, shipped to site. It was a it was amazing. 00:42:50:16 - 00:43:11:06 Speaker 1 We did this like puzzle. It was like a putting a puzzle together. And we had three of these kit homes built in about five days. The framers just knocked it out. Wow. Insane. And, you know, it, that's another option for us. And some of these companies are getting like BMC. 00:43:11:08 - 00:43:15:05 Speaker 2 I was going to say, yeah, they have the, the, ready frame product. Correct. Yeah. 00:43:15:07 - 00:43:31:20 Speaker 1 But you know, to me, I've tried to work with them, but they they're their demands are these massive builders who are like, yeah, they're of course it just makes sense for them. And so their factories can only supply so much. And so for me I'm like, come on, you know, when the economy, you know, when things slow down, you're gonna want to talk to me. 00:43:31:22 - 00:43:44:18 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, to me, that makes sense. Like, if you had a essentially a true kit house where every stud was precut. Yep. Pre pre labeled. It's, you know, just put them together, put them up and you're done. 00:43:44:18 - 00:44:07:07 Speaker 1 It's brilliant. So that's what we're trying to do is figure out different ways to offer different methods of construction. Whether it's purely site built. You hire a general contractor. They like to see the package, the plans and they're like, no problem, we'll get this done. But they build it on site or utilize these kind of very smart tech, you know, systems that are set in place from precut systems. 00:44:07:09 - 00:44:10:04 Speaker 1 All the way to having it prefabricated completely. 00:44:10:10 - 00:44:18:00 Speaker 2 If you had like an off grid property and you want to just build your own, your own house yourself, you know. Yeah, a pioneer style. 00:44:18:05 - 00:44:18:12 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:44:18:12 - 00:44:20:19 Speaker 2 We think something like that would be fantastic. 00:44:20:21 - 00:44:29:13 Speaker 1 Yeah. And we've had clients. I mean, that's another thing that we've been fortunate to work with, clients that are building these themselves. They're not hiring architects and. 00:44:29:16 - 00:44:30:12 Speaker 2 Builders. 00:44:30:13 - 00:44:52:04 Speaker 1 That mean they're not hiring builders. Yes. They're not hiring builders. Thank you. But we've had clients who've taken, the products themself and acted as their own general contractor. And, you know, if they need our support, we'll come in and help them out when we supply them with subcontractors that they're local. And it's worked out great. 00:44:52:04 - 00:45:11:21 Speaker 1 I mean, we had, a woman who got into construction after she, you know, she ended up, like, doing one of our kid homes on the bike trail in the Heights, and she built it herself and had an incredibly tight budget and figured out how to do it herself. And so literally, we handed her the plans, and that was it. 00:45:11:21 - 00:45:14:03 Speaker 1 The last time I heard from her was when it was finished. 00:45:14:03 - 00:45:20:22 Speaker 2 Well, have you guys worked with any of the organizations like habitat or any of those types of groups for doing these, these types of products? 00:45:20:22 - 00:45:49:15 Speaker 1 No, we haven't worked with habitat, but we did work, like I mentioned, Oprah Winfrey's Angel network. We worked with that. We've been in contact with various groups and yeah, I mean, you know, again, like I said, that the products that we have, we try to figure out a way of of adjusting them so that the, the cost of construction would work in different ways, like we've had them built for 90 bucks a square foot, all the way up to $400 a square foot for the kit homes. 00:45:49:17 - 00:46:12:09 Speaker 1 The Z fab is the same thing. I think we've had them built anywhere from like 200 bucks a square foot to about like, you know, five, 600 bucks a square foot. So it really depends on the client, their needs, their goals, the level of finishes, the level of detailing where the houses are being built, the complexity of, you know, you know, what they have to do to their properties, the infrastructure, all that. 00:46:12:10 - 00:46:15:13 Speaker 1 I mean, there's so many things that impact the cost of a home. 00:46:15:15 - 00:46:20:14 Speaker 2 Can the Z fab be shipped out of state or is that a different licensing to do stuff in other states? 00:46:20:14 - 00:46:25:19 Speaker 1 Now we have, but we have a company that, can ship to 50 states. Oh, cool. Yeah. 00:46:25:21 - 00:46:30:07 Speaker 2 Put it on a, on a, on a barge and ship it to Alaska and put it on a no problem on a bank in Alaska. Yeah. 00:46:30:12 - 00:46:48:21 Speaker 1 Yeah, totally. I mean, I have a we did a house in Brenham and the client has property out in, the state of Washington on one of these islands, and they're like trying they're racking their, you know, like, we want to build something small. Like, I've got a product for you. So, I mean, you know, these are things that I'm constantly thinking about. 00:46:48:23 - 00:47:10:13 Speaker 1 And again, it's trying to collaborate with, you know, groups that'll help facilitate that process. And letting others kind of really tell me, hey, this is the best way to do it. Working with people who are good at what they do. I'm great at being an architect, designing, working with clients, putting on a different hat for every different client. 00:47:10:15 - 00:47:30:09 Speaker 1 But I do have to kind of work with others who are giving me advice also and saying, hey, this is the best way to fabricate it. Also, and for me to listen to them, it's just like working with builders locally. I've got different builders who are good at what they do, and I have to listen to them even during construction. 00:47:30:10 - 00:47:52:23 Speaker 1 Hey, let's try this. Let's try it this way. Awesome. Yeah. You know, as long as we're meeting the needs for my client and what we've, you know, the design intentions, and that's how we learn and get better at things is to kind of, work with people in a manner, work with groups in a manner, because of their ability to be professional at what they do. 00:47:53:00 - 00:47:53:21 Speaker 1 00:47:53:23 - 00:48:02:07 Speaker 2 And also, I'm sure that you, you take feedback and, you know, the builder might say, hey, I'm on the next or maybe, maybe change this a little bit in the design will make it easier right. 00:48:02:08 - 00:48:27:21 Speaker 1 Definitely. Yeah. There's not a question about that. I'm always learning about a different way to do things. And I mean, one thing we do in our office is I build one project a year. So, you know, we'll get through design on a project for a client, whether it's custom or a prefab or whatever it may be. And, I will act as their general contractor. 00:48:27:23 - 00:48:52:03 Speaker 1 I'll offer to bid it in a sense, but being able to get out to the site to be a general contractor and to kind of work with subcontractors and not feel like it has to be done one way. But understanding there are different methods, actually, of creating a better product because people are that, you know, technology's constantly changing. 00:48:52:08 - 00:49:13:08 Speaker 1 And that's one thing that excites me is how a technology is is moving so quickly in a sense of, you know, products are changing how we're doing things. For waterproofing to mechanical systems, whatever it may be. But, you know, learning from the trades and learning how to get things done better for our clients is what's critical. 00:49:13:10 - 00:49:34:02 Speaker 2 Yeah. That's that that's great. I think I think more architects probably need to every once in a while get a BGC on a project. Just just to kind of, I'm, you know, I'm not an architect, but I'm sure that if by by rolling out the plans and doing it, you're like, oh, you know, maybe I should start doing it that way to make life easier for these people, right? 00:49:34:02 - 00:49:40:14 Speaker 2 I mean, like, you always pick up on something that that you come across where a light bulb goes off. 00:49:40:16 - 00:49:52:12 Speaker 1 And you, you, as I mean, you would know and I could be wrong on this, but a lot of the times, a lot of these drawings that architects produce, a lot of these pages that are being drawn are just being ignored. 00:49:52:14 - 00:49:53:09 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. 00:49:53:11 - 00:50:20:21 Speaker 1 Right. 100%. Yeah. I mean, I think that we all have the intentions. Are there. And we're very concerned if you're a good builder, you're concerned about, you know, how things are put together, the waterproofing aspect, making sure the that sustainability factor from short and long term are met, that the systems are done right from mechanical to, you know, plumbing to electrical, etc.. 00:50:20:21 - 00:50:38:21 Speaker 1 But, you know, I do see as I go out in the field, nine out of ten times that drawings that we have are just ignored. And it's really a discussion with the builder and, you know, the subcontractors how to get things done in the intentions that the architect the client wants. So, 00:50:38:23 - 00:50:53:03 Speaker 2 I think sometimes that, that the number of pages, the number of details can get overwhelming sometimes. Right. It's like there's a fine line between not having enough information, like a barebones set of plans and too much. It's like there's there's a happy medium somewhere. 00:50:53:03 - 00:51:09:07 Speaker 1 That's what we've tried to figure out is how you create that happy medium. So it's not you're oh, you're not overwhelming. Yeah. But it's also fun to kind of figure out the details on site with the builder and to figure and make, make those things happen in a manner that really is successful for the project. 00:51:09:07 - 00:51:18:23 Speaker 2 Yeah, I think, yeah, I almost feel like sometimes some of the details are almost like like a CIA like it totally. 00:51:19:04 - 00:51:55:09 Speaker 1 It is. It is purely a CIA. It is a liability. And that's what, you know, we're that's you know, it's they're these, you know, architecture firms are set up where you spend a certain amount of time in this phase, the next phase, the phase after and then the construction administration, if you're involved. And so I enjoy the, design in a sense that schematic design to the design development the most and then the CIA being out in the field and supporting and helping and making sure that that team work is kind of continuing, and that's no different from anything from a custom to a prefab to whatever. 00:51:55:10 - 00:52:15:22 Speaker 1 Because I learned a lot. Our first prefab that we did. Yeah, I mean, the the builder wasn't looking at the details. They weren't. And so I'd have to go out to the factory and just to make sure that the the intentions were there and that the, the thoughtfulness about how things were detailed, were being done properly. 00:52:16:00 - 00:52:27:07 Speaker 2 All right. Kind of a kind of a, ethereal type question. But if you could wave a magic wand, how would you transform urban living spaces? 00:52:27:12 - 00:52:53:13 Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a good question. You know, the I would say the urban fabric has changed so much. I think we need to, you know, one thing I'm, I see is there is less thought about the scale of the way that we're building more of in the urban fabric. We're losing the kind of historical typologies. Those neighborhoods are changing so drastically with scale change. 00:52:53:15 - 00:53:21:16 Speaker 1 And I think that we need to, think about how to save a lot of the historical attributes of our neighborhoods. And that is, you know, not necessarily having to save a historical house, but designing new homes that meet the demand needs of the changing kind of families that we have. Families are growing. They're moving in to the city area. 00:53:21:18 - 00:53:51:02 Speaker 1 But allowing for, families to kind of develop in manners that meet their needs, but not over developing in a manner that we're kind of changing that fabric so drastically that we're losing that kind of idea of what our neighborhoods used to be. I don't know, there's the the walkability factor. You know, a lot of these big homes that are just plopped into these urban or more like, for instance, the Heights. 00:53:51:02 - 00:54:22:14 Speaker 1 I'm seeing such drastic changes in their, with homes that are put into these properties, homes that are ripped out, homes that are put in that just don't belong there, that don't match that scale. And the materiality of what used to be there, I would say, I don't think we need to. I mean, the reality is, I think as architects and designers and builders, I think we can actually design in a manner that that kind of fits those neighborhoods in a sense. 00:54:22:16 - 00:54:45:11 Speaker 1 And that fits the needs and the demands of the families that are moving in there. There's so many different ways of attacking it, and I'm always focused on that with clients on how to salvage that kind of, kind of historical identity, of what that neighborhood is, and kind of rethinking how that property and the home will work for their needs from now all the way down the road. 00:54:45:13 - 00:54:46:22 Speaker 1 00:54:47:00 - 00:55:15:21 Speaker 2 So we've definitely gotten, kind of a different direction. We're kind of focused less on ADUs, which is perfectly fine as it's been a great discussion. But what just to kind of to kind of pull it back into the Adu discussion a little bit and wrap it up, what what advice? You know, if somebody wants to, you know, consider building an Adu or adapting their property for, let's just say, for multi-generational living. 00:55:15:23 - 00:55:21:06 Speaker 2 What advice would you give to people who are who are considering doing that? 00:55:21:07 - 00:55:39:18 Speaker 1 I, I think it's it's great. I think you have that opportunity right now to do it. There's a lot of options out there. And I think it's something that makes a lot of sense. I mean, we did a project In the Heights for a family that actually had, a parent that needed a place. They. We built an 80 for them. 00:55:39:20 - 00:55:59:21 Speaker 1 They live in that 80 right behind the house. And we've done it in a way that gives her the privacy that she needs, and the family, the privacy that they need. I think that you do have to think about everything from what your goals are. Your needs are, how you site plan things to give yourself that privacy. 00:55:59:23 - 00:56:24:06 Speaker 1 You know, whether it is multi-generational and you're bringing in a grandparent or utilizing it as your son, you know, graduated from college and has a place to come home to, or your daughter has a place to kind of go to or a place where they can go out and play music or I don't know, you know, I think you you just have to figure out what I always tell my clients is figure out what your goals are. 00:56:24:07 - 00:56:31:12 Speaker 1 Your needs are write it down, simplify it, and then find that product that's going to make the most sense for you. 00:56:31:14 - 00:56:47:14 Speaker 2 So, any final thoughts for for folks? I mean, that was that was pretty good. Pretty good summary there. But and any kind of final thoughts on our, our, our Adu, multi-generational living discussion today that you that I haven't touched on yet. 00:56:47:16 - 00:57:22:10 Speaker 1 No, I mean, you know, like I was mentioning earlier, I just the the variation of different types of ADUs that we've done, you know, meet, you know, such a variation of demand is that have kind of filtered up over the past 10 to 15 years. And like I said, like Covid has impacted things so dramatically. And how technology, GIS, content, technology and how technology is rapidly changing is impacting the way how we're doing this stuff. 00:57:22:12 - 00:57:49:09 Speaker 1 And I think, you know, we're getting my office and I think there's a lot of different offices that are doing this, too, are getting better and better at figuring out how to deliver these in a manner that makes sense for people to meet these demands. When we had a family who bought a neighboring property next to them, we did an Adu and it was a pool house and a pool, and they're utilizing it as kind of a an additional space for family. 00:57:49:11 - 00:58:18:23 Speaker 1 And they, you know, they also utilize it. We put a generator at it. So anytime they have a storm they lose electricity. They move over to that Adu. They've got the Adu that has everything for them, plus a pool. And so I mean, it's been the most incredible thing for them. Over the past I think it's been about eight years, in which they've been able to utilize or have something that kind of makes their life so much easier during times of stress. 00:58:19:01 - 00:58:36:14 Speaker 1 They're able to escape on weekends, and it feels like they're kind of on a, you know, they're a little guest house away from their main house. And again, like I said, during times of stress, when they've lost power during a winter or during kind of a hurricane or whatever it may be, we've had two of them this year. 00:58:36:16 - 00:59:02:01 Speaker 1 They've been able to escape over there and, and have their generator operating. And they've got a full house for themselves, but they're not having to be stressed out about, you know, you know, the, the, the horrors that may happen when you don't have what you need. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I think, you know, there is a strong use for these kind of structures, these smaller structures and, the ordinance have changed in the city. 00:59:02:03 - 00:59:24:01 Speaker 1 You know, whether it's the city, you can actually build these out in the hill country, find yourself a little plot of land or outside of the city, a guest retreat. There's so many different uses, and it's just exciting about, you know, to us, it's exciting about how to kind of make these adjustments and changes all the time to meet these demands that we're kind of getting hit up on constantly. 00:59:24:03 - 00:59:31:06 Speaker 2 Awesome. Well, we'll definitely talk about my backyard because I've got like I said, I've got a space that I need to put one of these. 00:59:31:06 - 00:59:31:14 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:59:31:19 - 00:59:47:16 Speaker 2 And so we'll talk some more about that. And I can plan something for my for my family too. Thank you. Well, Brett, thanks so much. Thank you so much for coming on today. And, tell the folks how they find your company and your website, social media, all that kind of stuff if they want to reach out to you. 00:59:47:17 - 00:59:50:09 Speaker 1 Yeah, it's Brett Zim or design.com, and. 00:59:50:09 - 00:59:52:13 Speaker 2 I pronounce your last name wrong. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. 00:59:52:13 - 01:00:11:09 Speaker 1 Some more. We'll do some more. I'm so sorry. You've got. And, it's, just check out the website where you can email us at office at Brett Zam or design.com. And, we're always here. We're here to listen. We're here to figure things out and make it work for all of our clients. 01:00:11:11 - 01:00:13:18 Speaker 2 Well, awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here today. 01:00:13:20 - 01:00:15:07 Speaker 1 Thank you so much for inviting me. 01:00:15:12 - 01:00:20:02 Speaker 2 All right. And thank you all for listening to the podcast. I'll see you next time. Take care.