00:00:00:02 - 00:00:19:19 Speaker 1 Every experience that I see, you're trying to help yourself do what is perceived as savings. You end up doing more harm than good. Turns out to be not savings. It turns out to be situations just by experience. In this business, there was a problem or a delay. I had to pay another month of temporary rent because we weren't finished on time. 00:00:19:19 - 00:00:36:13 Speaker 1 That okay, well, that cost me 2500 bucks, but I only saved 1500 by doing this. And it's all the things that catch up at the end. 00:00:36:15 - 00:00:59:03 Speaker 2 Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Your Project Shepherd podcast. I'm your host, Curtis Lawson. And today we're going to be talking about owner provided materials or maybe owner provided subcontractor labor and how that affects custom home and remodeling projects. It seems like a great way for clients to maybe save a few bucks, save that builder markup by providing things themselves or handling things themselves. 00:00:59:05 - 00:01:24:20 Speaker 2 But does it create more problems than it solves? To discuss that, I'm joined by my friend Drew Landry. Drew is one of the owners and partners of Southern Green Builders. Drew is also on the board of the Custom Builders Council at the GVA with me. He's got a graduate master builder designation from the Nahb. And recently we had his business partner, Sam Sidel on the podcast, here a few months back on a panel, which is a great conversation. 00:01:24:21 - 00:01:26:21 Speaker 2 So I'm excited to have drew on today. 00:01:26:23 - 00:01:33:06 Speaker 1 Well, thanks, Curtis. I'm excited to be here and looking forward to the conversation we're going to have. I think it's an important one that needs to be addressed. 00:01:33:07 - 00:01:41:11 Speaker 2 So tell us, tell us, you kind of your backstory and how you got into this and what your, your role as a southern green and what southern green likes to do. 00:01:41:13 - 00:02:21:14 Speaker 1 You bet. So southern green builders, we get started in 2009 and, my background in construction, I've been in custom home building, home building construction for over 20 years. So coming out in 2009, we, we started Southern Green Builders and started as a small, little, little remodel add on, in the Heights area and, that went well and did two more and did five more and got more opportunities and grew organically here and today, now we service our clients and in full home new construction and, full, renovations as well around the Houston and the greater Houston area. 00:02:21:15 - 00:02:25:18 Speaker 2 What did you do before Southern Green? How did you get your start in it? 00:02:25:19 - 00:02:47:11 Speaker 1 So I started at the, at the very bottom as a warranty representative for a production builder here in town and worked my way up to, from warranty and customer service through, an assistant superintendent to superintendent lead superintendent, and, Houston construction manager before leaving. 00:02:47:11 - 00:02:52:03 Speaker 2 Okay, so you went to A&M, right? I did, did you study construction science at home? 00:02:52:05 - 00:03:04:06 Speaker 1 Actually, I didn't. Okay. I studied industrial distribution, supply chain management. So the thought was we manage a lot of people and a lot of a lot of materials, and it was very applicable to to what we do today. 00:03:04:08 - 00:03:22:21 Speaker 2 Cool. So here today, we're here to talk about, owner owners and clients that think they're going to save some money or, they want to buy stuff themselves for whatever reason or coordinate it. Or maybe they've got a cousin or buddy or uncle or whatever, who's in the trades and they want to use them. And, I know I get questions about that kind of stuff all the time. 00:03:22:21 - 00:03:24:01 Speaker 2 I assume that you do, too. 00:03:24:05 - 00:03:25:10 Speaker 1 Yes we do. 00:03:25:12 - 00:03:30:16 Speaker 2 So why do people want to do that? Like, what's what's the impetus behind. I want to provide this. 00:03:30:17 - 00:03:48:02 Speaker 1 Sure. A lot of the reasons we hear why really the main one is they're looking to save money. They're looking to try to try to get a favor or they have the product or, they can get a better deal or a perceived better deal from somebody else. So I think the number one thing is they want to save money. 00:03:48:04 - 00:04:04:10 Speaker 1 Other reasons that we've heard in the past are it's family and they want to help that person out. They want to give work to that that person because they're going to be paying for it anyways. Those are really the two main reasons that that we see it. 00:04:04:12 - 00:04:15:02 Speaker 2 What do you think the big kind of the biggest issue with that is we're going to touch on a lot of stuff today in this conversation. But what what are the big issues with people wanting to provide this stuff? 00:04:15:04 - 00:04:47:17 Speaker 1 There's they right. There are a lot of different things. The biggest one, I think, is it complicates a process that's already complicated. I mean, building a new house is is, a lot of moving people, a lot of moving parts and a lot of coordination. And when you have architect, builder, interior designer, landscape designer, engineer, civil engineer, builder, trades, construction advisor, all of these people are already here, and now you're managing a third and not just another person in that party. 00:04:47:17 - 00:05:03:00 Speaker 1 And it just becomes more complex and and really, what things that we strive to do is make it simple. But one of our, one of our core values at Southern Green Builders is simplify the complex. And and having this, just adds another wrinkle of, of difficulty that may not be needed. 00:05:03:05 - 00:05:29:21 Speaker 2 Yeah. And a good builder is going to have a good team already put together people that they're used to working with on a, on a regular basis, trades and consultants and people that they know, they know how they work, they know they're reliable. They know the quality of the work. Right. And when you introduce a new party, if it's another, another tradesperson, you know, Cousin Eddie, AC, you don't know if he's capable of executing on the level that you expect things to be executed. 00:05:29:21 - 00:05:38:03 Speaker 2 On how reliable he is, how big his crew is, you know, does he have the right insurance? I mean, there's so many things that go into that, right? 00:05:38:08 - 00:06:15:03 Speaker 1 There's a lot of things that go into it. One of the main things that we see is all the subcontractors and suppliers that we work with are vetted. And we, we, we interview them, we we ask them a lot of questions. We look at their references, we check their credit, we look at their financial, background. And if they're responsible at paying their bills and we vet those people and not only are they good craftsmen and we've worked with them before, but they've gone through a very thorough process of making sure they meet the liability requirements for insurance to help reduce the exposure to us and the exposure to our clients and, making 00:06:15:03 - 00:06:30:19 Speaker 1 sure we're checking all those boxes for them and, and for not only for us as a, as a building company, but for that, that end user that we want to put responsible, reliable tradesmen and, material and suppliers on that job site to, to minimize future problems. 00:06:30:21 - 00:06:58:03 Speaker 2 And so, you know, that's mostly kind of, I'm talking about tradespeople, but with products, it's like, you know, we're used to dealing with vendors who are going to back up the products that we get. So if we buy something from, a supply house that we're always buying things from, we know if that product arrives broken, we can return it, exchange it, whatever, and it's going to be taken care of probably by our, our either our rep at that distributor or at the manufacturer. 00:06:58:03 - 00:07:20:00 Speaker 2 Right. Correct. If somebody is buying something from, from TMU or whatever and I'm we can get Danielle because she likes to buy stuff on TMU and she has a discolored fingers this morning from, some team product leaching, you know, probably poison into her skin or something. I don't know, but yeah, but yeah, you you start buying stuff off of Amazon or TMU and dropping it into a project. 00:07:20:02 - 00:07:24:13 Speaker 2 You know, if if, if that thing doesn't work, you know, what are you going to do? 00:07:24:19 - 00:07:49:09 Speaker 1 That's right. And and even just not only products from those different suppliers, but even name brand products, they make the big name brands make the same product with different parts depending on which distribution channel you make, right? Fixtures and faucets for plumbing, for example. Those name brands make a line that a trade professional will buy from a supply house, right. 00:07:49:14 - 00:07:54:04 Speaker 1 That is different from the exact same thing by way of looks from a big box store. 00:07:54:05 - 00:07:54:14 Speaker 2 Right. 00:07:54:14 - 00:08:00:06 Speaker 1 And, there is a difference in cost and there's a difference in the quality and the way that that's put together. 00:08:00:06 - 00:08:19:04 Speaker 2 Yeah, it may be like the type of metal that it's made out of. It could be the type of, gasket that's got in there. Like it might have a, a plastic part versus a metal part on the more expensive version. And the faucet looks the same. But there's a reason that, you know, the big box store is selling it for 99 bucks, and the supply office is selling it for 140. 00:08:19:07 - 00:08:21:22 Speaker 2 Correct. It's it's a different product. 00:08:21:23 - 00:08:22:14 Speaker 1 That's right. 00:08:22:16 - 00:08:31:14 Speaker 2 I've had that argument so many times, people whether I know it's exactly the same, I'm like, no, it's not. I've talked to the manufacturers in the distributors. This is a different it's a different faucet. 00:08:31:14 - 00:08:34:08 Speaker 1 That's right. 00:08:34:10 - 00:09:02:23 Speaker 2 So on those products, when one of those products does have a problem, like let's say that that, less expensive version, the homeowner wants to provide has a leak. That faucet has a leak now. Right? And I've had this happen, you know, if if, if also leaks and damages the cabinet beneath and then it damages the flooring or whatever, who's going to be responsible for that? 00:09:03:01 - 00:09:30:14 Speaker 1 Well, we've seen it where we've been in similar situations to that, that that falls back on. It's a product failure. If it is a product failure, it comes back to the product. But if the owner provided that all of the back, back and forth with that manufacturer is on the owner to get that resolved, typically you have one owner against this massive manufacturer or where inversely, if that were to happen by way of builder had bought the part. 00:09:30:16 - 00:09:56:17 Speaker 1 Well, now, as the builder, we have a relationship with the supply house. We have that supply house has a bigger relationship with that, that manufacturer. And therefore we can leverage the help. And we they have dedicated people in place that could come and support that. So instead of an owner running, running around in circles, pulling their hair out, trying to find out who they need to reach to get this fixed, send in the right photos to get all these things cleaned up that they've never done before. 00:09:56:19 - 00:10:09:21 Speaker 1 They can lean on, you know, when builders provide those those parts and pieces that we have a we have a network of people that we can rely on. We have a network of people who are in place and know what to do and can help fix that and fix it as quick as possible to. 00:10:09:23 - 00:10:27:17 Speaker 2 And basically we're going to be the ones handling it right. Like when you, you know, when we're taking our markup on that item and what's a part of our contract, you know, you as a homeowner don't have to mess with that. That's the beauty that I mean, that's it's the same reason you're hiring us to build the house instead of building the house yourself. 00:10:27:17 - 00:10:36:12 Speaker 2 So that's right. Why do you want to put that responsibility on yourself as a homeowner to deal with these situations when they arise? 00:10:36:14 - 00:10:57:21 Speaker 1 I agree, I think that I think that is what's happening. You know, I'm using the analogy a lot of, most of our clients, and I'm sure yours too, that you work with are all educated, professional, and they can all do their taxes. But I would be willing to bet most of them hire a CPA firm or hire somebody else to do that because they are better versed in that. 00:10:57:23 - 00:11:16:22 Speaker 1 They use the professional service at hand. And I feel that that's what needs to be looked at. And building is hiring a reputable professional builder to help you build your house and buy your products and do those things. That's that's our role in our guide. And you're you're getting that service when you're hiring a company like Southern Green Builders or hiring you on board. 00:11:16:23 - 00:11:34:12 Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, it's the same thing like like when you, buy a car, like, like, you know, 30 years ago, I would change my own oil and, and do a lot of the work on my own car. But now and, you know, partly it's because I'm in a different stage of life. I've got a nicer car than I did 30 years ago. 00:11:34:16 - 00:12:00:23 Speaker 2 But now when I buy a car, I take it to the dealership to have all the service done to because I know that, hey, if the dealer messes up on the oil change, or the dealer messes up when they're doing some kind of maintenance type activity, that the liability is shifted to them. And whereas if I'm the one who changed that and I didn't tighten something properly or put something in properly, or if I didn't maintain a service interval or whatever, it's going to void my warranty on my car. 00:12:00:23 - 00:12:15:21 Speaker 1 And the same things happen with your house, you know? But that's exactly what's happening. And that's happened to me before we had a windshield issue on a car. We took it to. The dealer was leaking, the windshield was leaking. We took it to the dealer, they replaced it. It ended up leaking again, flooding the inside of my car. 00:12:15:21 - 00:12:35:06 Speaker 1 But what? Because the dealer serviced it? The dealer backed it up. Versus having a guy that I hired independently come replace that. I would have been out of luck. And it's the same scenario. I see it as, you just open as a, as an owner buying your own parts and buying that here. You're, you have a larger potential of, future risk. 00:12:35:08 - 00:12:59:15 Speaker 1 And, it may not necessarily be worth saving the 50 bucks or 40 bucks on the one part or, you know, let's say not the one part, but maybe the few thousand dollars. It just may be, a little shortsighted of seeing what could go wrong and knowing what could go wrong. And just I think it's important for everybody to understand what is out there so they can weigh those benefits. 00:12:59:18 - 00:13:19:09 Speaker 2 Yeah. So I see this this happening the mostly with big ticket items. People, for some reason, don't seem to care as much when it's, a piece of hardware or maybe even a faucet or something like that. They're like, you know, you're making whatever you make on it. 1020, 30, 40% markup on that. They're like, it's $100 item or whatever, right? 00:13:19:11 - 00:13:40:19 Speaker 2 Right. But it mostly comes up I've seen with with things like appliances, pools, landscaping, bigger ticket items where they're like, you know, I don't want the builder to make that 20 or 30% on that item. For some reason. And, unfortunately, those, those bigger and more expensive items are often the things that that have some issues. 00:13:40:19 - 00:14:08:06 Speaker 2 Right? It's a it's not that often that a 2 or $300 faucet has a problem. Those things are, you know, they're, they're they're usually manufactured pretty well unless it's some off brand. But the bigger ticket items, you know, refrigerators, ranges, all that kind of stuff, they they have more issues I would say that I've encountered. Right. And so people do tend to want to save that markup on the bigger ticket item because it's low hanging fruit. 00:14:08:06 - 00:14:14:08 Speaker 2 They see a $40,000 appliance, allowance on their contract. They're like, what if I just buy that? 00:14:14:10 - 00:14:38:14 Speaker 1 Right? Right. So so we may work different than than some other builders do. And we realize that people want some of that and we'll isolate some of those allowances that are already there. And hey we'll work with you to help buy this, but we're not really making a lot of money on it. There is a management fee that we have to coordinate and buy and purchase, sometimes store and then coordinate the installation to make that happen. 00:14:38:14 - 00:14:59:21 Speaker 1 That's part of what we do. But in terms of risk, I think it's a little bit, depending on the product, that typically there are large manufacturers that have good, standard procedures on how to make products, and they have good quality control in place. And really, let's let's call a range, you know, a, a wolf range is the same wolf range, no matter who you buy it from. 00:15:00:01 - 00:15:22:10 Speaker 1 Right. Backs it up. Right. For the most part that happens. So in some areas it does make sense that what you have to look at, I believe, is who manages that. So it's it's okay you buy the product. Are you calling and setting up the delivery? Are you receiving the product? Are you coordinating with the installer? Are you doing all of that work too? 00:15:22:10 - 00:15:45:06 Speaker 1 Are you making sure the right parts are in place? Are you recording aiding with the inspections? What are you doing with that? It's not just the product. By sure, there's a lot of and I think maybe that's that's where I want to go is there's a lot of other activity that happens with that product by. Yeah. And that's the same whether it's flooring or tile or lighting that it's not just by fixture and be done. 00:15:45:12 - 00:15:56:01 Speaker 1 You don't do that. And I think, you know to use other industries, which helps you don't when you buy a car from your car dealership, you don't get to say, I'm going to bring you the tires. 00:15:56:03 - 00:15:56:12 Speaker 2 Right? 00:15:56:18 - 00:16:11:16 Speaker 1 They sell you the tires. It's raining. Switch them out later, but you don't get to bring your tires and then bring your steering wheel to the manufacturer. I think it's it can be similar here in, in construction. It shouldn't be that way because there is other coordination and other things that go into that. 00:16:11:16 - 00:16:32:00 Speaker 2 Yeah. So with things like appliances, I mean I, I've seen more of the issues be on the install side than the actual product. I mean, I have had I have had some instances where like a refrigerator had something faulty that may have made a water leak. Right. That caused a water leak, but more often than not, that's like an installation issue. 00:16:32:00 - 00:16:38:12 Speaker 2 Or the installer didn't tighten something properly, or the installer messed something up adjacent to it or whatever. 00:16:38:13 - 00:16:59:03 Speaker 1 So, but let me let me add on to that. If I can. Sure. So yes, those products are there too. But a lot of times what in my experience it may be the same for you. It's not just as easy as a buy an oven, or buy a fridge or buy a faucet. There are other components that go into that whole installation. 00:16:59:03 - 00:17:17:10 Speaker 1 So when you buy a fridge, did you get the the icemaker hookup and which quality of that did you get? Did you get all these other accessories that you have to have to make that device work? And it's either yes, most people usually say I didn't know that existed or they see the the tub faucet. And did you get the valve? 00:17:17:12 - 00:17:20:01 Speaker 1 Did you get the hoses? Did you get the, you know, all these other parts. 00:17:20:02 - 00:17:22:03 Speaker 2 The pop up drain or whatever? Yeah. Correct. 00:17:22:03 - 00:17:43:12 Speaker 1 And and they go, no, I didn't, I didn't know that. Oh yeah. Well you have to have all that too. And I think that comes from industry knowledge. And that's where us as professionals can really should be at the helm of, of guiding that and being in control of that. Yeah. Because then again, those are just more parts that okay, if you buy the oven, you buy the appliance, you bought the wrong ice maker hose shipped. 00:17:43:12 - 00:17:49:01 Speaker 1 Okay. Now we're going back to you owner. You bought this stuff. Give me the right one and we'll get it. But or. 00:17:49:01 - 00:18:05:10 Speaker 2 With like, ranges and dryers and things like that, they often don't come with the power cord that, that you need to do, install it. And, and did the power cord that come with it match up with the receptacle that's on the wall from the electrician? Is that a three prong, a four prong. Is it the right length? I mean, you. 00:18:05:10 - 00:18:23:16 Speaker 1 Know, yes. And another thing that can happen in that too, is, is just the verification, the just because you bought it and you shipped it doesn't necessarily mean it's right. We love our suppliers, but, you may buy a, microwave that, 110 power and they send you one that's 220 power and you're not equipped for it. 00:18:23:16 - 00:18:37:06 Speaker 1 They look the exact same. It's one, you know, 1 or 2 small different numbers on the serial number, but it completely changes what has to go into that space. So it's not just as easy is put it in the cart and buy it. 00:18:37:08 - 00:18:57:05 Speaker 2 I just had that happen last week with the microwave. Actually the, the, it's a it's a pretty small project for some past clients, but they're like, hey, we bought this microwave. We've we've got it here. We need to modify a cabinet, install it. We're like, cool, no problem. And, you know, on us, we didn't, you know, I assume when they told us it's a microwave, it's a 110. 00:18:57:07 - 00:19:15:05 Speaker 2 We've got a breaker in the breaker panel already for it. Never even open the microwave box. Got it all set up. Went to install it. It's it's 220, right? Crap. So, Yeah, 110 versus 220 in the microwave. Most people don't even think about that. Right. They make a 220 microwave. I mean, yeah, they do. 00:19:15:07 - 00:19:16:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:19:16:02 - 00:19:21:16 Speaker 2 And so they had to return it. Order a order a, a 110 version of the same unit, you know. Right. 00:19:21:18 - 00:19:22:17 Speaker 1 Right. It happens. 00:19:22:17 - 00:19:46:00 Speaker 2 So one of the, one of the, the issues that we deal with and again, this is more of the installation side, not the product side. And one of the reasons that so that we the we want the appliances to come through us is the coordination and the planning of making sure that the cabinets are set up properly. 00:19:46:00 - 00:20:08:13 Speaker 2 You know, with a lot of the high end houses that we do, a lot of built in appliances, they want a very specific flush installation. It's got to look a certain way. And, you know, we can get spec sheets on on stuff that owner supply. But, you know, especially if they wait too long and the design like like they're like, okay, we're not going to put these appliances out for a little while, but we already have our cabinet design. 00:20:08:14 - 00:20:42:00 Speaker 2 We've got our electrical and plumbing in the wall. And then we get something and it's like, this doesn't work with the cabinets we set up for the electrical that's set up. But then also on the installation side, if if the owner is providing it and they've got their installer bringing this stuff in, sliding a 48 inch refrigerator or range into place is going to take some skill, especially if some of these flash installations and if they damage that cabinet or they damage the flooring or whatever, then who's responsible, right for that damage. 00:20:42:02 - 00:21:06:15 Speaker 1 Right. And that's where I look back to is, is it just adds more complexity to something that, doesn't necessarily need to be there? You're exactly right. I mean, there's a lot of moving parts that have to be in concert with each other. And when you ask a question or an owner provides something like that, it becomes just more difficult and more challenging for the builder to make that happen. 00:21:06:16 - 00:21:28:05 Speaker 2 Yeah. Even even, even good appliance installers that we work with a lot, we'll occasionally scratch a cabinet or a countertop or a countertop or a wood floor or whatever. But again, if we if we are managing that process, if that's our vendor's installer, we know that we can lean on them to give us a credit to fix that floor or to repaint the cabinet or whatever. 00:21:28:07 - 00:21:42:00 Speaker 2 If you go to Best Buy or whatever and get your appliances and and your in your handling, the installation or whatever, you know, that's on you and and we're going to if you want that cabinet fix that for fixed. You know, guess who's going to pay for it. It's not me. 00:21:42:00 - 00:21:58:22 Speaker 1 That's right. And I think in the end of it we're looking for the best user experience. We want our clients to to have a good experience building the house to have a good experience. Let us provide the service you hired us to provide. So if that scenario happens where something gets damaged and now you're playing who pays for what? 00:21:59:00 - 00:22:11:15 Speaker 1 Well, that's just a finger pointing game. And people get frustrated. And generally the owner is frustrated at themselves that they didn't allow the builder to buy it in the first place, but they're still frustrated. So, we still have to deal with it. 00:22:11:16 - 00:22:23:18 Speaker 2 Yeah. How do you how do the, owner providing, materials affect our project schedules? Or how can it affect project schedules if things don't always go right? 00:22:23:22 - 00:22:51:00 Speaker 1 That's a great question. So they can destroy it. So so as a builder, we have a contract typically to deliver a home within a certain time frame. And we're working towards that. We're planning and we're we're adjusting and we have to be in control of that. When the owner provides materials. Well, now there's a there's a totally new outlier out here that does that may or may not go in concert with the schedule. 00:22:51:00 - 00:23:13:07 Speaker 1 Now we can coordinate it as best as we can to keep that in line. But if you had this, are you buying this? Even if it is a designer that they have, are you buying this? Whether it's owner or someone of the owner's reps, becomes difficult when it's not the builder buying it, and it becomes more complex to coordinate and becomes more of a risk that we may not get the right parts at the right time. 00:23:13:09 - 00:23:30:15 Speaker 1 Us as a builder, we like to receive the parts, check them, make sure they're not broken, make sure they're all here a week in at least a week in advance before they even go out to jobsite. And some people have, in the past said, yeah, if you're installing this on Thursday. Yep. Shipment will be delivered Wednesday night. 00:23:30:17 - 00:23:35:02 Speaker 1 Well, I can't I can't mobilize a crew until I verify that at least. There. 00:23:35:06 - 00:23:38:07 Speaker 2 Yeah, and it works or it's not. It's not broken or damaged. 00:23:38:07 - 00:23:51:03 Speaker 1 The parts are there for them to complete their job. So. So there's there's that. So then if it comes in at that tight window, well now you've lost some time because if it's broken or missing we have to get it back to you. Then you have to ship it back. Now you have to get the right part in. 00:23:51:03 - 00:24:16:15 Speaker 1 And now we're in, we're in time loss. And the only person again, that whose fault is that is the person who bought it and coordinated that, at that time. Now, now. Tough luck if something's broke, you know, but the reality is, as you know, a reputable builder and and, planning, properly, you should get that in enough time, whether it's the supply house, getting it and checking it for you. 00:24:16:15 - 00:24:29:10 Speaker 1 That's part of our team that's that's helping make those things happen. Or if it's it's somebody's internal, that's that's checking those items. That's part of, receiving the material. And, and, an important step that that has to happen. 00:24:29:10 - 00:24:46:10 Speaker 2 Yeah. Do you guys have, have materials that are shipped to your office where you're opening them and all the time checking them all the time? Yeah, we do too. Yeah. Most of the big items we don't. But like, we we actually have all the lighting and plumbing shipped here to our office. And part of our again, part of our management is the, the, the folks at the front desk. 00:24:46:10 - 00:25:02:02 Speaker 2 When that box comes in, they open it. Is it the right color or are there scratches on it? Is the glass broken? Yeah. Is it the right model number? Yep. Seal the box back up, write the job on it. Put it on the shelf. Right. Yeah. And so we've we've checked it right. And and we control. Yeah. 00:25:02:03 - 00:25:05:23 Speaker 2 The date that we receive it and you know, we know it's ready to be installed. 00:25:06:02 - 00:25:22:12 Speaker 1 That's right. And we do the same thing. And this, this really is, become a little bit more back to normal today. But let's go back to Covid. We go let's go back to there when lead times went. Or you can normally get something in a few weeks. The jump to a few months or over a year in some instances. 00:25:22:12 - 00:25:26:15 Speaker 1 Going back to appliances that lead times went from, you know, six months to 14. 00:25:26:15 - 00:25:26:22 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:25:27:04 - 00:25:46:17 Speaker 1 So how do you plan for that? You know, there's just it just lengthens the process. But but knowing how to how to grab the, the problem and, and work a solution to it, I think is important and, becomes like I said, it's it's just it becomes more complex when now it's on the owner. And face it, owners are busy, clients are busy. 00:25:46:19 - 00:25:59:03 Speaker 1 They're they're doing other things. They've hired us to to provide a service and provide a product for them. They need to go do those other things. And if they're buying these products, maybe they get caught up with, business meeting. 00:25:59:08 - 00:26:04:04 Speaker 2 Forgot to buy that or I don't have time to. Yeah, I don't have time to drop it by the house today. 00:26:04:04 - 00:26:18:03 Speaker 1 And then they send a message at, you know, 11 at 11 at night, which, you know, most people don't get that. So. Hey, what's the right part number? I need to get an ID. You're in this whole stress induced purchase scenario that doesn't necessarily need to happen. 00:26:18:06 - 00:26:39:07 Speaker 2 Yeah. So as far as, these types of things affecting our trades, people who who are like our, our electrician, our plumber, the guys who are installing the stuff, how does this affect them? I mean, the first thing that I, that I think of is so because I just had this happen, with my electrician or actually it hasn't happened. 00:26:39:08 - 00:26:59:12 Speaker 2 We're having the discussion about this being a possibility. And so we altered some pricing because of it. So our electrician said, well, I don't know if that chandelier that's getting brought over here is if it's already assembled, if it's a, if it's a one piece item, or is this chandelier, you know, some of these chandeliers can be like 100 pieces. 00:26:59:12 - 00:27:19:22 Speaker 2 And the electrician has to sit there and put them together. So instead of being, maybe a 15 minute installation for his team to get out of the box, hang it done. Now that they spend sometimes 3 or 4 hours just putting together a chandelier. And so the electrician said to me, Curtis, I don't want to lose money on assembling light fixtures. 00:27:20:00 - 00:27:41:19 Speaker 2 And so basically we were doing a proposal for a client and he was saying, hey, is this, is this a one piece chandelier, 100 chandelier? Because I'm going to charge you $125. I'm going to charge you $600. So I think that's a great example of how maybe not knowing what something is when the proposal is being written is going to affect a trade. 00:27:41:19 - 00:27:42:02 Speaker 2 Right? 00:27:42:02 - 00:27:42:21 Speaker 1 Because very true. 00:27:42:22 - 00:28:02:04 Speaker 2 Because in my contract, the contract could be written six months ago or, or a year, and then the owner's like, I'm going to provide the provide the chandelier. Well, 12 months later it shows up and the electricians like right. Oh my God, it's going to take me half a day just to put this thing together and scaffolding to put it up. 00:28:02:04 - 00:28:03:01 Speaker 2 Yeah, right. 00:28:03:03 - 00:28:39:13 Speaker 1 I'm laughing because that's happened to us before. And and we get out and there's I don't know how many little crystals that got to be hung on this thing. And it ended up taking about 2.5 hours to put together. And, it happens. I think the way the way we structure it and the way we approach that problem is we put those items as allowances and we even put into that allowance, hey, the shipping, the tax and any additional assembly that may be required with this, we have to have that flexibility, I believe, as a custom builder, because most of those products are not known at contract and they're going to be decided along 00:28:39:13 - 00:29:00:10 Speaker 1 the way. So along the way we communicate that, hey, if you pick this really fancy chandelier, it will likely have more install labor. We'll put that as part of the allowance. That's how we'll handle that. Is that makes sense. Are we good with that? And everyone acknowledges it and we we sign off to it. But that's how we handle that. 00:29:00:12 - 00:29:13:08 Speaker 1 Because there are a lot of unknowns you have so early in the process that most of our builds are, you know, at a minimum nine months. Yeah, typically that, that somewhere go up, you know, 15, 16. 00:29:13:08 - 00:29:14:04 Speaker 2 Year, year and a half, two. 00:29:14:04 - 00:29:23:06 Speaker 1 Years, up to two years. So it's hard to know all the decisions upfront. Now we work to make that happen as early as possible. But in the case that we can't get that that's how we treat it. 00:29:23:07 - 00:29:38:07 Speaker 2 Yeah. Or the chandelier shows up and instead of having one, one, box, it's in the middle. It's got like three different boxes that are required for it. And now you're cutting drywall and adding, blocking and trying to figure out how to hang that thing and 24ft in the air. 00:29:38:07 - 00:29:40:18 Speaker 1 And so, so those are. 00:29:40:20 - 00:29:55:08 Speaker 2 The ones that I really hate. Or when you have the, the things that are hanging at different heights and you can adjust the cords and the homeowners like, I think that or the designer. So like that one needs to be a little lower, that one needs to be a little higher. And then like, oh my God, you know. 00:29:55:10 - 00:29:59:07 Speaker 1 It's, it's a coordination effort there. Yes. 00:29:59:09 - 00:30:37:09 Speaker 2 So we talked a little bit about, about warranty, we touched on a minute ago, but let's talk a little more about warranty and kind of how these things affect, like long term viability for, for the tradespeople and for the homeowner. So if, if someone provides whatever it is, appliance, faucet, whatever, and there's a failure, who's responsible for that two years down the road, assuming that it's still within our warranty period as builders, let's say, you know, like our standard plumbing warranty is two years, right? 00:30:37:11 - 00:30:48:13 Speaker 2 Or for or at least for us. Right. So let's say, eight, you know, 20 months and there's a plumbing, part failure, something that we didn't provide. You know, what happens. 00:30:48:15 - 00:31:06:08 Speaker 1 In those cases? We'll go out, you know, we have to assess what happened, figure out what it is. If it's something, that's what the the labor that installed it or is it with the actual product. Right. If it's with the actual product, we go back to manufacturers. And again, that's just who's the point person running that if we didn't buy it, we're not doing that right. 00:31:06:12 - 00:31:18:13 Speaker 1 If you don't have someone strong at the manufacturer's, level assisting you and getting you the right information, it may take may take longer, may take long to get a part may or may not happen at all. 00:31:18:15 - 00:31:37:13 Speaker 2 I'm sure. Like you like like we're not going to just throw up our hands and say, you know, to tough luck, you bought this. You know, we're still going to work with our clients and make them happy and, and and get it taken care of. But, again, when, when we are the ones providing it, any you could even take that a step further. 00:31:37:13 - 00:31:59:22 Speaker 2 I know a lot of builders who won't buy any plumbing fixtures. They let the plumber provide all the fixtures, even correct. The more that we can kind of shed liability away from ourselves. Yeah, the better the situation for us as builders. And I think the homeowner, the homeowner, should take the same approach. Yeah. The more the homeowner can shed liability or shift the shift liability, the better off they're going to be. 00:32:00:00 - 00:32:08:19 Speaker 2 And so by them not having their finger in the in the middle of that process, they're, they're they're giving themselves more long term protection. Right. 00:32:08:23 - 00:32:31:02 Speaker 1 Well I think so too. I think that's exactly right. And I'll give you the scenario. Let's go. Let's stay on plumbing. I 20 months in, we got a leak. Okay. It's a product. Well, if the builder purchased that through a trade partner, we can most likely get that product within a 2440 eight hour time period, have it fixed and replaced and done and back out of their life. 00:32:31:04 - 00:32:59:00 Speaker 1 Otherwise, we're we're waiting on the owner to get that turnaround, waiting for it to go through a claim process, waiting for it to go through that manufacturers inspection and then finally ship a part back. So they may have a problem in their house for, you know, two to 2 to 6 weeks or more waiting on that whole thing to happen, where as a builder or with their plumber or with our trades, you know, with our supplier, that we may be able to just take care of that because we already know this is going to be returned. 00:32:59:00 - 00:33:10:05 Speaker 1 We have those relationships, we have that experience that we can just absorb it, work the claim on the back end, but get the get the owner back to back to normal living conditions as quickly as possible. 00:33:10:05 - 00:33:32:02 Speaker 2 Yeah. As we mentioned earlier, it may not just be that one product leaking or failing that may have caused something else to be damaged, whether it's cabinets or drywall or insulation or whatever. It's that butterfly effect, domino effect of this one thing is now causing all these other problems. You know, if it came from Teemu, who's going to cover that? 00:33:32:04 - 00:33:33:06 Speaker 1 That's right. 00:33:33:07 - 00:34:06:11 Speaker 2 Sorry, sorry I missed him. So we've kind of bounced around between products and fixtures and subcontractors, but, you know, I wanted to kind of focus more on, owner, the owner coordinating, providing labor or subcontractors for a minute. You know, as I mentioned, some of the big things that people like to take out of our scope are there's bigger ticket items like landscaping pools, outdoor living spaces, sport caulking, like any specialty stuff that's on the outside of the house. 00:34:06:13 - 00:34:34:00 Speaker 2 And I don't know about you, but I've gone back and forth on this over the years like I used to be, like, okay, you know, y'all, y'all do this. I want you to get in the middle of it. It's fine. And then I've also taken the stance of, no, everything has to run through us. I don't know, there's one real right way for builders to handle this, but it seems like we always still have some level of management that we have to do, regardless whether whether they hire a pool company, the landscape company. 00:34:34:02 - 00:34:39:12 Speaker 2 It's never totally out of our hands. There's always some level of touch that we have to have on it. Right? 00:34:39:14 - 00:34:40:04 Speaker 1 Correct. 00:34:40:04 - 00:34:55:07 Speaker 2 What's your stance on that? I mean, I again, I've gone every direction in the world on this. Do you guys, you know, let kind of, owners deal directly with pool landscape or do you guys want to run that through you? Do you charge a management fee? How do you work that we've. 00:34:55:07 - 00:35:17:17 Speaker 1 Done every different way we that I've, I've heard of all of those things we've done. Yeah. It depends on the situation. And I know that's not the best answer, but it sure really does. Here's where I see, a lot of the issues happen. Materials with talking mostly materials here, the chance of that happening because of the way they're manufactured in a controlled environment, there's less risk, right? 00:35:17:18 - 00:35:38:19 Speaker 1 The reality is, as a builder or a home builder, Remodeler, you have a huge amount of risk because everybody working is is it's all human hands. It's all trusting the tradesmen to to make this happen and trusting that tradesmen and trusting that company that that tradesmen either owns or works for, that's that's you got to know who you're working with. 00:35:38:21 - 00:36:07:04 Speaker 1 I see a few different scenarios. One is when that owner wants to have a company do work that is integrated directly with the build, and there's one that could be, a builder stop point and owner start point. Right. So I can see landscaping and pool in some scenarios being a start stop item. However, I want my guy to do the AC for, I want my guy to do low voltage. 00:36:07:04 - 00:36:31:01 Speaker 1 I got a Navy guy who's great. Yeah, he's going to do all my heavy wiring. Okay, that really makes me nervous. And we've done it where we've allowed it. There's a couple ways of approaching that. And I've from experience, the main thing that I look at is, is, when that when that person has to go in the integrated process, like we, we can't do drywall until they put their parts in. 00:36:31:03 - 00:37:01:05 Speaker 1 Right, or something like that. Well, there is they're going through this house. So I don't know what happens if the just the simple AV guy who's just pulling wires. Well, maybe he cut something loose. Maybe he knocks the plumbing fitting off, maybe he does something else. Maybe he shoot, maybe he falls through and dies. I mean, there's all of those risks that literally happen on that job that it seems on the surface, not a big deal, but when something serious happens, it becomes a big deal. 00:37:01:07 - 00:37:27:05 Speaker 1 And and, luckily, everything that we've done that way has been okay. For the most part, it's still is still a risky situation. And I don't like it because we're opening ourself up to more liability. I feel like it, even opens the owner up to more liability. Now, one of the ways that we've gotten to do that, or I feel comfortable with it somewhat, is, hey, I want to use this guy. 00:37:27:07 - 00:37:50:04 Speaker 1 Not a problem if he can pass our checklist, if he can be vet, if we can vet him, we can check his references. He'll sign our subcontract agreement and we'll use it as a subcontractor. And now it falls into our contract terms. It falls into our insurance. All of those things fall in line. Not a problem. The one that is is not good is I'm just going to let him go by now. 00:37:50:08 - 00:38:09:10 Speaker 1 We have another client that is trying to hire people on the side without telling us, and we came in to do an electrical inspection and they didn't. He added some plugs and added some stuff and didn't do things right because he didn't want to pay for it. Right. Well, it came into it that we weren't able to pass inspections. 00:38:09:12 - 00:38:25:12 Speaker 1 We had to go rip all of these things back out. Actually, we had to tell him to rip these things back out. So trying to do that, I'm just going to add some things would do that caused a delay in the in the project. It caused that thing to be delivered longer. It cost him more money because he had to carry the the note longer. 00:38:25:14 - 00:38:39:15 Speaker 1 It just compounded the situation and made it made it sticky to what I think the you know, there's there's a lot of different ways to look at. Let's go to landscaping too now. So that's kind of where you have a stop start. And that happens fairly common. Yeah. Or. 00:38:39:15 - 00:38:46:08 Speaker 2 There can be a stop start depending on what the level of landscaping, what's involved in that. There's irrigation, drainage, all that kind of stuff. 00:38:46:10 - 00:39:05:14 Speaker 1 Let's just say we won't do any of it. But what we will do is as a builder, we're we're required to preserve the drainage on that property. So we have to if we're not in can if we're not in charge of controlling what the end use product of that drainage is, that liability is now going to shift to an owner. 00:39:05:16 - 00:39:22:04 Speaker 1 Hey, this is a picture of how we we graded the yard. We're here. And this is a picture of you accepting it with your landscaper to finish it, please initial here. If there's ever a drainage problem it's up to you and your landscaper. Now from here on out we don't have any more risk with that. 00:39:22:06 - 00:39:40:12 Speaker 2 Yeah. And if that affects your foundation, you're right. Because our warranties, our warranty says you have to maintain positive drainage away from the foundation. I mean, I had a example I was gonna bring up in a second. I'll do it now. This exact thing happened to us where the owner took the landscaping scope away from us. 00:39:40:14 - 00:40:03:01 Speaker 2 The landscaper kind of negatively graded. The drainage water is pulling against the foundation. And six months after they moved into their into their new house, they were getting cracks in the drywall in that area. And the house was was shifting, and they were having water seep in under the bottom plate because the soil was built way up against the house and and heavy rains, water was seeping into the house. 00:40:03:03 - 00:40:15:06 Speaker 2 And I said, you know, we told you guys that if you guys do the drainage, that that liability is on you. And this is why. Right. And so they they had to eat that expense. And those. 00:40:15:06 - 00:40:16:01 Speaker 1 Conversation six. 00:40:16:01 - 00:40:17:01 Speaker 2 Months after moving in. 00:40:17:01 - 00:40:20:09 Speaker 1 Those are hard conversations to but they happen. Yeah. 00:40:20:13 - 00:40:36:21 Speaker 2 And want to make it worse. The they hired a landscaper, but the guy's father in law was the one that was out there on the tractor doing the grading. And I had pictures of good old dad out there on the Kubota pushing dirt against the against the the house, you know. 00:40:36:23 - 00:41:08:09 Speaker 1 Yeah. Every experience that I see, you're trying to help yourself do, and what is perceived as savings or something, you end up doing more harm than good. Just just my experience in this business, it turns out to be not savings. It turns out to be situations. Maybe not that extreme, but similar to that, that there was a problem or a delay, or I had to pay another month of, temporary rent because we weren't finished on time. 00:41:08:11 - 00:41:16:00 Speaker 1 That okay, well, that cost me 2500 bucks, but I only saved 1500 by doing this. And it's it's all the things that catch up at the end. 00:41:16:00 - 00:41:42:20 Speaker 2 Yeah. It's not just a, a liability issue either. It's also a kind of a coordination issue on those big items. So same house that I just mentioned with the draining, the draining, the drainage, their own pool company as well. So when we poured the foundation on the house, you know, we the, the architect and the engineer had a, a certain drop specified for their back patio from inside the house. 00:41:42:22 - 00:41:58:11 Speaker 2 You know, it was based on using a certain thickness tile on the patio. Right. Well, the pool guy had his own ideas about the thickness of the material and the type of material he was installing on the patio to kind of flow from the back door all the way up to the pool. Yep. And he goes to put in the pool. 00:41:58:11 - 00:42:21:12 Speaker 2 He's like, why did you drop the patio this amount? You know, my pavers aren't the right thickness for that. Mike. Well, this is you know, what's on the plans, right? And so he'd already bought all these pavers that he couldn't use because they didn't work out with the patio drop. So, you know, again, when you're taking that and putting it on a third party who wasn't a part of the planning process, that guy probably never had a copy of the structural drawings that showed that drop. 00:42:21:14 - 00:42:27:14 Speaker 2 You know, now you've wasted money buying a bunch of materials that you can't use. So there's there's a lot of coordination stuff that goes on there too. 00:42:27:14 - 00:42:50:11 Speaker 1 Absolutely. And I think what's, what I want to add on to that, that's where going through the builder can make that all go away. That's the coordination between the two. But one of the things that's interesting, and we've run into a few times is some clients will finance that pool. They'll roll it into the into the contract that gets financed. 00:42:50:11 - 00:43:13:19 Speaker 1 That the builder executes that. Then he then in turn don't they don't take it from the builder. They want it in a credit change order because they're now going to hire a completely different pool company on their own. But the builder is still connected to the bank loan. It's just something to be aware of. I mean, I don't know the right way or there's a right or wrong way, but it's an awareness. 00:43:13:19 - 00:43:29:16 Speaker 1 You have to know that that exists and you're on the you're you're signing the note with the owner, but you have no control over the pool and what the owner is doing over there that may affect the completion of that project and, may have ramifications with that lender. Yeah. 00:43:29:20 - 00:43:53:21 Speaker 2 And if you have to coordinate the draws, you know, to deal with that too, that's, that's just more, more work that you have to, to deal with. One more kind of, anecdote that I had, taken some notes on to talk about. And, you know, I hate to just kind of focus on the negative here, but, you know, because we wanted to teach people about a positive process and a positive outcome. 00:43:53:21 - 00:44:21:20 Speaker 2 But sometimes you get to kind of present these horror stories to make people realize, oh, crap, this is the kind of stuff that can happen when I when I don't follow this, this advice. But, kind of one other anecdote that I wanted to bring up. So my consulting company, Shepherd, you know, was hired as a consultant on this big project where somebody had hired just a terrible builder and and, that builder got fired as a rule, I, I do not want to take over projects that I was a consultant on. 00:44:21:20 - 00:44:39:14 Speaker 2 There's kind of a conflict of interest there. I, I really try not to do that, but unfortunately, sometimes someone's been through so much trauma. Trauma, so to speak. Like they were with this builder for three years and the house wasn't even halfway done and they were just at their wits and they're like, Curtis, y'all are the only ones that we trust to finish this. 00:44:39:14 - 00:45:03:10 Speaker 2 Will you please, please, please, please, please finish it. I was like okay so so we did but what had happened was right before we got hired in their frustration with the other builder, they decided to take some things out of that builder scope and handle them themselves. So they hired an elevator company. They hired a cabinet company. 00:45:03:10 - 00:45:36:01 Speaker 2 This high end Italian cabinet company, they hired them, but they also hired the cabinet company to do all their countertops, all their tile on the entire house. And, so we're actually just kind of finishing this house up right now. And the the elevator company is now holding us up from getting our final inspection, because some parts who didn't come in on the elevator in time, the elevator installer actually took a massive deposit from them a year and a half ago. 00:45:36:03 - 00:45:54:12 Speaker 2 Never ordered it with the manufacturer. They were using that money for something else, right? And so the elevator didn't, didn't, didn't even get ordered on time. And it was some elevator company that I've never even heard of. I've never worked with them. I've never heard of them. They should have picked them. Right. So now that elevator is causing us to not be able to get our final inspection. 00:45:54:18 - 00:46:16:23 Speaker 2 Yeah. And then in the hurricane a couple weeks ago, there was a water leak. It's a four story house with a rooftop, deck with a fourth floor big, deck with an outdoor kitchen. And that cabinet company installed something wrong on this deck that caused a water where you can damage floors for the next two levels below it. 00:46:17:01 - 00:46:37:20 Speaker 2 And the owner is at her wit's end because it's, like, $30,000 worth of work to go back in there and fix all this stuff. Yeah, and I sent her a change order for us to repair it, and she she's she's freaking out. So she calls toner. Who? Who? We've worked with. She calls, Rondel and Riley. Exterior inspections. 00:46:37:20 - 00:47:02:06 Speaker 2 She calls, Johnson waterproofing. All these all these experts that we've worked with that help figure out problems. Right. And all these experts came out. They're like, nope, your stucco is good, your waterproofing is good. Here's the problem. And it's this one cabinet on the top where they they didn't connect, something right on this, on this outdoor kitchen area and that one little spot caused a leak two floors below. 00:47:02:08 - 00:47:28:01 Speaker 2 So we're still in the middle of it right now. Like, we just had some of these these consultants out yesterday and met us at the site. But what is funny was the architect came out and the first thing he said as soon as he got out is, why didn't you supervise this properly? And I said, you know, this was $120,000 worth of cabinets from this company, and it was another 80 to $100,000 worth of tile and countertops. 00:47:28:01 - 00:47:53:22 Speaker 2 It's all like decked on, which I think drives me crazy. Anyway, really expensive stuff. And so that's, that's a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of stuff that I normally would have made 40, $50,000 on, and I made zero. And, you know, you know, you're fussing at me about not overseeing this properly and making sure they installed it properly. 00:47:54:00 - 00:48:06:19 Speaker 2 And he said, well, you made a lot of money on that house. I'm like, you don't know how much money I made on the house. First of all, you don't know what my margin is, but for you to tell me that I've made enough money and that I shouldn't, you know, that I should have supervised that because I made so much money. 00:48:06:23 - 00:48:26:08 Speaker 2 It was really frustrating. But it's it's even more frustrating for the client now because not only does she have the elevator issue, but now she's also dealing with this expensive issue that now all this stuff has to be fixed before she can move it in too. So even if the elevator got fixed today, we still have to like replace all the wood floors on two levels of her house. 00:48:26:08 - 00:48:48:02 Speaker 2 Right? And that's another, I don't know, x number of weeks before she can move it, move into the house there. So, you know, just a lot of a lot of kind of horror stories like that can pop up when you've got these companies that I have never worked with as a builder. And unfortunately, because they were hired before I ever came on the scene, I didn't really ever say they were already hired. 00:48:48:02 - 00:49:01:23 Speaker 2 Right. And so I couldn't go back and, and she'd already given deposits to. So I couldn't go back and say, you know, cancel that contract, get your money back. It didn't work. So we try to make the best of that situation. But now we're experiencing all these issues. 00:49:02:00 - 00:49:24:00 Speaker 1 That's a good point where an owner goes out and makes those deposits. Usually those are not recoverable. That's that's sunk cost no matter what. As a as a builder, when we're hired to do those things, we have a, we have contracts and purchase orders and agreements in place and methods to hold accountability and help protect the owner from that. 00:49:24:00 - 00:49:46:12 Speaker 1 So yeah, that that's frustrating. I hear the architect to it. I don't like it when they start pointing blame at why didn't you why didn't that. Because you could say, well, why didn't you put better details on how to install it in there? Right. It can all goes there. That's not really a win solution. But here in that story I really feel for that owner going through that. 00:49:46:14 - 00:50:10:04 Speaker 1 And and no matter what the bad story or the negative thing that happens, I feel like the solution is through effective communication and a lot of it, the key is goes back to when you have when, when we as the builder, when we don't know the full plan or we don't know all the people we're dealing with, it becomes harder to communicate and that communication can break down. 00:50:10:04 - 00:50:34:11 Speaker 1 That communication can be completely left. I think every scenario we gave is mostly communication errors. The pool, the pool at the different level. Well, he didn't probably get this because this person didn't communicate and as, as the custom builder or construction advisor, you're you're look, you're like the quarterback of the team. You got to make sure everybody knows which way they're going and how they're doing, and they know what play we're running to make it happen. 00:50:34:13 - 00:50:41:02 Speaker 1 So, if we don't know this, this thing's happening over here, there's no way we can effectively plan for it. 00:50:41:04 - 00:50:52:08 Speaker 2 And let's stick with that sports analogy. You know that the ball usually gets dropped on the handoff. The ball doesn't get dropped off when somebody is running or walking with it or holding it. The ball gets dropped when it's getting handed from one person to the other, right? 00:50:52:12 - 00:50:53:12 Speaker 1 That's correct. 00:50:53:14 - 00:51:15:10 Speaker 2 So, you know, our the visual that we use in the podcast here, we pop on the screen at the beginning, I think it was on the screen during the intro, right, the house diagram. And we'll get a look at it. Danielle, you know our, our, our four component of, of a, of a well-executed project, this kind of touches on all that stuff, you know, the, the planning, the team, the communication, the execution. 00:51:15:12 - 00:51:24:20 Speaker 2 So us as builders, managing that whole process, you know, is is essential for that, for that product come out the way it's supposed to come out. Correct? 00:51:24:20 - 00:51:45:20 Speaker 1 Correct. It's a team effort. And, we got to know all players on the team and how they're how they're working. When we add in those those what may be perceived as savings, they actually become more costly, through through soft costs or back in work or extra coordination or rework or, returns that can't be or lost deposits. 00:51:45:20 - 00:52:09:07 Speaker 1 It more often than not is one of those scenarios. The inspection thing happens a lot when when other subs or other trades or other contractors happen. It's happened. More to us where we can't get our final inspection because we're waiting on trade X Pool Company. Typically something it's a pallets that has to be done before we can final. 00:52:09:07 - 00:52:30:05 Speaker 1 Well, we can't final and we can't have our final draw until they're done in it. We've we've had a scenario where that's been up to months and, it's frustrating because we have no involvement in it, but we're we're still working the job, still have overheads, still have resources, still have people going out. When again, there's there's nothing coming our way in that I've. 00:52:30:05 - 00:52:47:14 Speaker 2 Got a job where. So the, you know, in in the city of Houston, it's always a struggle at the end of a project to get a gas meter ordered and set. And this is in the floodplain. It used to be you could get a temp gas permits. Right? Get your gas meter early. You're okay now with the heat pump stuff. 00:52:47:16 - 00:53:10:06 Speaker 2 It's no longer a life safety issue. Right. To get a heater on and hot water so they won't let you get your gas meter until the very end of the project after everything is finally out now. Right. And so we've got a swimming pool in the floodplain where the pool is not final, that the house is done, but the pool is not final out. 00:53:10:08 - 00:53:11:03 Speaker 1 Okay, good guess. Me. 00:53:11:03 - 00:53:21:07 Speaker 2 So I can't get my final inspection, so I can't get a gas meter. And the people have already moved into the house. And guess what? They don't. They can't cook on their stove because there's no gas to their stove. 00:53:21:09 - 00:53:23:06 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yep. 00:53:23:08 - 00:53:27:18 Speaker 2 And and again, and there's another example of we didn't hire the pool company. 00:53:27:20 - 00:53:32:12 Speaker 1 So that's correct. Well, whoever came up with that rule I don't necessarily agree with. 00:53:32:13 - 00:53:34:11 Speaker 2 Oh no, it's ridiculous. 00:53:34:13 - 00:53:38:17 Speaker 1 But yeah, there's another example of, again, third party, third party people on a project. 00:53:38:17 - 00:53:55:22 Speaker 2 Yeah. So to kind of wrap this up, what, what, what advice would you have for builders who want to who who are getting this these comments from homeowners? I want to provide this one to provide this. What's what's the best way for us to speak to our clients about this and educate them? Yeah. Other than tone, what's on this podcast? 00:53:56:03 - 00:54:13:12 Speaker 1 Well, we can always do that, of course. Right. There's a lot of good information here. As a builder, I would I would ask a couple of things. One, you got to understand how you want to run your business. What are the things that you're acceptable, of taking on and not but really getting to that owner is why help me understand why you want to do that. 00:54:13:14 - 00:54:38:09 Speaker 1 You want to buy your own appliances? Why you want to buy your own windows? Why helping to understand those things. And, it usually comes out well. I want to save money. Okay, well, chances are you buying that and what? We can buy them at or going to be at similar costs. But you have all of these benefits with us buying it versus not and presenting that in a way, it may be. 00:54:38:09 - 00:54:50:08 Speaker 1 Well, my brother in law is the sales rep over this, so I'm buying my windows from him. Okay. Well, we can look at him and now we can talk to him and we can put that product from him in the project. 00:54:50:08 - 00:54:54:21 Speaker 2 Where maybe we could buy them. Or maybe we can create a new relationship with that new vendor and bring them on as a vendor. 00:54:54:21 - 00:55:12:12 Speaker 1 So I think a big step in it is understanding why. Because if you understand the why now, you can put a plan to it. Because ultimately, again, building the custom home, whether you bought it or you didn't buy it, everything falls on the builder. Whether it you know it. You can always argue that who's fault, but it's it's on you. 00:55:12:12 - 00:55:33:03 Speaker 1 It's it. All fingers point to you because you're the last person in the line. You're the person who has to get it all the way across the finish line. So understanding why they may want to look at outside or provide their own material or labor on something is important. And coming up with a plan on how to do it in most cases, there's always an acceptable way to steer away from that. 00:55:33:05 - 00:55:51:12 Speaker 1 Hey, let's let's do this. Because of this reason, we can control the supply chain or we can control the quality when it comes in. And that'll help preserve your time frame, which you won't pay more interest. And just there's a lot of different things we're talking through it. But if you don't ask, if you don't know why, it makes it difficult to do. 00:55:51:12 - 00:56:17:16 Speaker 1 And the number one ask I would say is, you know, whether the builder is buying all of the material. Do you see that in any other? Are you planning on providing any material and then you can have that conversation? So just because it's not brought up, I think you still need to bring it up in some way, shape or form and, make it let it be known in the beginning of, of who's, who's in charge, who's responsible for getting what items and how is it getting here and be in agreement with that. 00:56:17:21 - 00:56:21:09 Speaker 2 Yeah. Any advice specifically for homeowners that you would. 00:56:21:09 - 00:56:55:05 Speaker 1 Have for them again, goes back to, the, the builders that that come through here and talk with you and the builders that are a part of the custom builder and GBA and professional organizations in Houston. And we're all reputable builders. We all have, experience doing this. We all have established relationships. I think it goes back to you want to hire, you want to interview and choose a qualified, reputable builder to work with. 00:56:55:06 - 00:57:13:00 Speaker 1 And you've hired us as a professional. Let us be a professional for you and execute your project. We can guide you along the way. We can help you in here. You know, I've spitball at least a dozen scenarios of why not to do it, and I know it could go on for probably two days. On why not to do it, but trust, trust the professional you're hiring. 00:57:13:01 - 00:57:32:03 Speaker 1 Trust the builder you're working with and, open communication. Yep. Don't don't try to hide things back. Share what you're thinking and let's talk through it. Let's come up with a plan. We can what? We what? We don't know. We can't help. What we do know we can. You know, we can plan around. We can. We can help, figure up contingencies. 00:57:32:03 - 00:57:34:05 Speaker 1 We can make a strategy to execute. 00:57:34:07 - 00:57:39:12 Speaker 2 Right. Well, I think it's a great, great way to wrap it up. Drew. Andre, I appreciate you coming on the podcast today. 00:57:39:12 - 00:57:41:09 Speaker 1 Thanks, Curtis. I appreciate the opportunity. 00:57:41:09 - 00:57:45:23 Speaker 2 And, tell us where people can find the Southern Green builders if they want to talk to you about a project. 00:57:45:23 - 00:57:54:04 Speaker 1 Yeah. You bet. So, southern Green builders.com. We're also on Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn. Reach out. All the contact information is located there. 00:57:54:05 - 00:58:06:07 Speaker 2 Great. Well, then we'll definitely publish those on the show notes on, on YouTube and wherever else she publishes the show notes. I don't even know all the spots, but she will do that because she's really good at her job. So, thank you again. 00:58:06:09 - 00:58:07:15 Speaker 1 Thank you. Curtis, I appreciate. 00:58:07:15 - 00:58:16:20 Speaker 2 This and thank every one out there for listening and watching to us today. We will see you next time. 00:58:16:22 - 00:58:17:07 Speaker 2 And.