00:00:05:17 - 00:00:29:22 Speaker 1 Hello friends. Welcome to the Your Project Shepherd podcast. I'm your host, Curtis Lawson, and we are here to teach that every successful construction project has four components demonstrated by the simple drawing of a house. The foundation is proper planning. The left wall is your team. The right walls, communication and the roof is proper execution. Have all four of these components in place and your project will succeed. 00:00:30:00 - 00:01:00:11 Speaker 1 We're here to help professionals and homeowners alike make the best decisions about designing, planning, and building custom homes. If you'd like more information about how Shepherd can help you with your project or business, visit us at your project shepherd.com. And now, here's today's episode. Video it's here. It's not live, live and it's not Saturday Night Live. Hey friends, welcome back to the Your Project Shepherd podcast. 00:01:00:12 - 00:01:21:09 Speaker 1 I'm your host, Curtis Lawson. If you've watched or listen to our last episode, you know that we had a group of custom builders and remodelers on here talking about the things that they wish homeowners knew before they started a project from a builders perspective. Well, so today I wanted to get another angle on that. So, I've got a great group of architect friends joining me today. 00:01:21:11 - 00:01:34:01 Speaker 1 I've got, Matt Giardina from Moment Architects across the table from me and next to him is Dwight Patterson with Dwight Patterson Architects. And we get Allison Cleveland with Mirador Group sitting next to me. So welcome to the show today, you guys. 00:01:34:07 - 00:01:35:00 Speaker 2 Thank you, thank you. 00:01:35:00 - 00:01:35:07 Speaker 3 Yeah. 00:01:35:09 - 00:01:49:16 Speaker 1 So let's get started just by kind of going around the table real quick and tell me, you know, obviously I just said your name, but say, you know, your your name, your company and kind of what you guys focus on, what your specialties are, what your services are. So let's start with Allison. 00:01:49:18 - 00:02:19:16 Speaker 4 Yeah. So I'm Allison Cleveland, with Mirador Group. We're an architecture and interior design firm that focuses on several different types of projects. So from single family residential to multifamily condominiums, mixed use developments, retail, restaurants, churches, a lot of different kinds of design types. And, my personal focus is custom home residential and also, the restaurants and worship spaces. 00:02:19:18 - 00:02:34:09 Speaker 1 Awesome. And just to be clear, you're a interior designer. You're not an architect. I'm using the term architect here because you work for an architectural firm and your principles are architects, so I'm using that terminology. But you do architectural design? Yes, an interior design. 00:02:34:09 - 00:02:43:12 Speaker 4 I'm a licensed interior designer, but ever since I've been at Mirador Group, which has been for, about a decade and a half, I've been working on architectural design as well. 00:02:43:16 - 00:02:44:19 Speaker 1 Awesome. Matt talks about. 00:02:44:19 - 00:03:04:13 Speaker 2 You. Yeah. So Matt Giardina, my wife and I own Moment Architects. We're located up in The Woodlands, and we do kind of like Mirador group, a combination of different project types. The majority of what we do is single family homes, both custom and production homes. We do a lot of additions and remodels, especially where we're located up in The Woodlands. 00:03:04:18 - 00:03:25:22 Speaker 2 There's a lot of that going on in that area. And then we do some worship and some education. So a mixture of things my, my expertise is in residential. So between my wife and I, all of my time is focused on our residential projects. My wife's expertise is in commercial. So she does all of our commercial projects. 00:03:26:00 - 00:03:27:11 Speaker 1 Awesome. Dwight. 00:03:27:13 - 00:03:50:09 Speaker 3 Yeah. Well, first, thanks Kurz for doing this. This is a valuable resource for everybody. My name is Dwight Patterson, the firm principal of Dwight Patterson Architects. And, we do mainly residential. Custom residential churches, retail and some, restaurant projects. So close to our heart is the residential projects, though. Great. 00:03:50:09 - 00:04:12:04 Speaker 1 So I think the design team gets a different perspective on this from the builders. You know, again, my my last episode was with builder is talking about the kind of things they wish they had, new things they wish their homeowners knew before they started the start end of the process. Right. But I think that you guys get a different perspective because you're actually generally coming in even earlier than the builder. 00:04:12:06 - 00:04:39:14 Speaker 1 So you're seeing them from the very, very beginning oftentimes, and you have the perspective of watching things unfold with the builder. So you see the successes or sometimes the opposite of that, right? Like you see the problems and the failures and the struggles, unfortunately. So I wanted you guys to kind of share your experience today and talk about those things that you see people eventually learn that would be much less, painful if they came into the process kind of already knowing these things. 00:04:39:14 - 00:04:58:01 Speaker 1 Right? So or, or maybe there are certain things that you find yourself like continually telling people over and over, but you know, they don't listen to you. But later on in the project, they're like, oh, you know what? I should have listened to them six months ago. You know, they kind of learn those lessons. So yeah, just whoever wants to start this is it's fine. 00:04:58:01 - 00:05:07:22 Speaker 1 But what are some things that the you guys kind of constantly find yourself, reminding clients of or, or wanting to tell people over and over with every single client. 00:05:08:00 - 00:05:32:21 Speaker 2 I'll jump in, I guess. So one there's, there's two things really that kind of I find myself repeating a lot of times. One of them is, just how important it is for us to get a quality builder involved early in the process. And some of our clients are really receptive to that, and some are not. But I just tell them over and over again the projects that go the smoothest and that turn out the best are the ones where we're working with a team from the beginning. 00:05:32:23 - 00:05:54:03 Speaker 2 The second thing that I usually try to explain to people, that's really hard to hard to get across, is that on a custom home when working? I think this is equally true in the design and construction process. There's kind of three variables. There's time, there's quality, and there's cost. And typically you can you have two of those, but you can't have all three. 00:05:54:05 - 00:06:09:10 Speaker 2 And so if somebody wants something done really quickly and they want it done really cheaply, the quality is going to suffer as a result. And so trying to explain that and give examples of like ramifications that different decisions can have, that's a conversation that we have with a lot of our clients. 00:06:09:12 - 00:06:12:19 Speaker 1 Yeah. It's the old good, good faster cheap pick too right. 00:06:12:20 - 00:06:13:10 Speaker 2 That's right. 00:06:13:12 - 00:06:26:20 Speaker 1 People don't want to believe that. People want to think they can get all three. And so they think that they can get, good and fast or, or sorry, cheap and fast. Right. But they're like, I don't I'm entitled to good. Even though I didn't pay for it. 00:06:26:22 - 00:06:28:00 Speaker 2 That's right. 00:06:28:01 - 00:06:50:19 Speaker 4 Yeah. I mean, I think it goes hand-in-hand with that is that every design decision affects your budget. Either it goes up or it goes down. And so really reminding clients through the process, of the design, when they're wanting to add in things or remove things, how it really affects the budget in the long run. And having the team establish at the beginning really helps make that clear as well. 00:06:50:21 - 00:06:51:11 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:06:51:13 - 00:07:13:05 Speaker 3 Yeah, I think we would all agree that it's our job to educate the client. We're the professionals. And, however we do that, I mean, we need their time early in the process. And, we always suggest to negotiate a contract with a general contractor early in the process. In order to maintain cost, you know, in their budget. 00:07:13:07 - 00:07:33:23 Speaker 3 Otherwise, it's very difficult, especially in these days with escalating cost to, you know, know exactly day to day what the cost are, you know, you know, in construction. So it's the contractor that has his or her hand on the pulse of that. So I think it's hugely important to have the contractor in the process early. 00:07:34:04 - 00:08:01:11 Speaker 1 I think that this might be a generalization, but I think most architects and designers have a good concept of cost. Right. Because you guys have seen enough projects come through and seen what I like and where the pricing lands. Right. So you have a pretty good concept of cost, but when it comes down to current market costs for certain things like you're not probably not able to drill down and say, oh, you know, you know, lumber is running X right now and the electricians are charging X right now. 00:08:01:11 - 00:08:17:12 Speaker 1 So you can kind of put together a decent, a decent range as you're designing. But having somebody involved who who does know, like, hey, this is what I'm paying for electrician and for a framer and for drywall and all these things right now. And like current market costs, is is very valuable, right? 00:08:17:14 - 00:08:39:04 Speaker 2 Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. We we try to explain that to our clients a lot of times that we can kind of give you a ballpark and we can guide you in the right direction. But when it comes to especially things like trying to pick one thing over another and comparing maybe to finish materials or something like that, that's when a contractor becomes really valuable to kind of give us more insight into those, those options. 00:08:39:08 - 00:08:39:15 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:08:39:17 - 00:08:54:22 Speaker 1 Do you find that people have a good handle on all of the outside of construction and then architectural fees, do people really have a handle on all the other costs that they're going to be incurring, kind of before that dirt ever gets turned over in a project? 00:08:55:00 - 00:09:16:14 Speaker 4 I mean, I think as, as an architect, we are the ones who are educating them at the beginning of the process. There's a lot of costs that come along with the design process, the site development process, and then the construction process that people aren't necessarily fully aware of if they've never built a home before. So obviously, engineering costs are one of those things. 00:09:16:16 - 00:09:35:02 Speaker 4 You're having to get topographic surveys. Maybe you have an arborist come out and evaluate trees if you're wanting to remove them. You've got permitting fees and water, wastewater fees, and, you know, all of those things kind of stack up. And so we try and make sure that clients are aware of those really at the beginning of the process. 00:09:35:05 - 00:09:40:09 Speaker 1 You'll have like a kind of a cheat sheet that you give them to say, hey, these are all the costs that you actually kind of expect to incur. 00:09:40:11 - 00:09:55:10 Speaker 4 Yeah, well, not necessarily specific costs because those can vary significantly, in a project, but the types of things that they should be expecting. And then obviously we help to coordinate those, relationships as well as they're building the team. 00:09:55:12 - 00:10:07:11 Speaker 1 Yeah. You guys think people are prepared? I mean, you know, in their mind when they're planning before they even come to you or are they thinking about all those things? Are they thinking about all those costs that are going to be out of pocket before they get started? 00:10:07:13 - 00:10:28:14 Speaker 3 I don't think so. I don't think so. At home, I think they're shocked. Yeah. There's so many because there's a handful or more things that can, be part of the design process and the municipalities, you know, that process as well as plan check fees. We typically say, and it's a rule of thumb. It's we say it's 3% of the construction cost. 00:10:28:17 - 00:10:42:12 Speaker 3 You know, it's just a range, you know, but we want to give them a sense of what they could be looking at, because we don't have those numbers until we have a design typically, developed. So that's that's how we go about it. 00:10:42:14 - 00:10:43:08 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:10:43:10 - 00:11:02:00 Speaker 2 Yeah. I would echo what Knight said. We find the clients who have already gone through the process. Obviously they know what to expect, but those who are entering into designing their very first custom home, they're usually there's it takes a little more education on our part. And so kind of the way we handle that is in our initial conversations. 00:11:02:00 - 00:11:21:13 Speaker 2 And and then also in our proposal, we list all the additional engineers and consultants that will be required. And we just put a note in there that says that, you know, we will be helping you coordinate this. We will be running the show for you, but these are other people who are going to need to be involved. Like Allison said, we don't put a fee in there because it changes. 00:11:21:13 - 00:11:27:20 Speaker 2 So much from project to project, but just at least give them an idea that in addition to an architect, there's a lot of other players in this. 00:11:27:23 - 00:11:45:19 Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I have kind of a cheat sheet. I kind of give a pretty broad range, says, hey, if we're planning a typical custom home, you know, you can expect to spend another 5 to 10 grand for an architect. And I'm sorry, not for our tech 5 to 10 grand for structural engineer and, you know, a few thousand dollars for civil engineering. 00:11:45:19 - 00:12:01:04 Speaker 1 And you know this for soil testing and surveying and all that kind of stuff, just so they kind of have that big number in their head that they're going to be out of pocket and is realizing that this is all stuff they're going to have to pay before they ever even, you know, get started like that. That's not coming out of their bank loan. 00:12:01:05 - 00:12:12:02 Speaker 1 That's like you're going to be shelling out, you know, those dollars, right? And right that check before you get started. So I think people don't realize they could easily be out of pocket a hundred grand before they ever turn a space to do it on their, on their house. 00:12:12:04 - 00:12:34:21 Speaker 3 Yeah. I just like to point out Matt Nelson mentioned, you know, the proposal and listing those qualifications of what else they can expect in the design fee or process. And I think it's really super important not only to give them that document to actually walk them through that document, because there's not a lot life to it. You know, some people are more used to reading proposals and contracts and other people. 00:12:34:21 - 00:12:41:13 Speaker 3 I think that helpful for us just to walk through line by line, just to reinforce that this is what should be expected. 00:12:41:15 - 00:12:54:18 Speaker 1 Yeah. What kinds of things do you think people should have in hand before they come to you to get started, or what? What kinds of things should people be thinking about when they come to that first meeting to talk about design? 00:12:54:20 - 00:12:58:06 Speaker 3 I think we'll I'll have similar answers, but I'll let someone else start. 00:12:58:09 - 00:13:22:21 Speaker 4 A budget, a clear budget. And my experience is that sometimes homeowners are a little bit afraid to tell me their budget or, they think that if they say a number that I'm going to design something that's right up to that cap or just over it. But really knowing the budget goals at the beginning help us to make sure that we're structuring the design in such a way that it's not going to lead these expectations on that. 00:13:22:21 - 00:13:45:03 Speaker 4 They're going to have something that's just not going to be achievable with the budget. So just being clear and honest about your budget upfront is really super helpful. Having some kind of idea of what style or, type of home you're looking for is, is helpful, even if there's, you know, a couple and they have two separate design ideas of style, even knowing those kinds of things are really helpful. 00:13:45:03 - 00:14:02:06 Speaker 4 Just making sure everybody who is going to have an opinion, is at the table and brings their ideas at the beginning is really helpful. And then obviously a clear program, what it is that you're wanting, what what your needs are, what the extras are, the ones are. 00:14:02:08 - 00:14:18:10 Speaker 2 Yeah. I was going to say a program as well. Just, it's really important for us to know exactly what we're you need to include in the design. In the beginning, it makes the process a lot longer and a lot more challenging. If we find out halfway through the design that they wanted a game room that we didn't know about. 00:14:18:12 - 00:14:28:02 Speaker 2 And so that in addition to the other things, Allison said, that's the one thing that for us, if we have that set out clearly from the beginning, it makes everything a lot more smooth. 00:14:28:04 - 00:14:51:10 Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. Likewise. Program is is probably the most important item that we have, from the client. Oftentimes we help them develop a program because we just need to pull out of them what they're really what their needs are. And like I say, we don't want something to come down the pike later on and, you know, be surprised by it. 00:14:51:12 - 00:15:12:16 Speaker 3 The second thing is, we find critical is a simple survey and not just a typical boundary survey, but a topographical survey, maybe less important in Houston, where it's flat. But, you know, many of our projects are done in locations where there's, you know, a lot of topography that we need to fit into. And it's critical in the design process. 00:15:12:18 - 00:15:29:19 Speaker 1 Yeah. And even in Houston, if it's located in a floodplain and we got to design civil, drainage plans, all that kind of stuff, you have to have the topo anyway, so you might as well just go ahead and get it up front. I mean, we we if, if we, if we suspect a house might be in the floodplain, we're going to get a topo survey. 00:15:29:21 - 00:15:55:05 Speaker 1 No matter what. And actually actually for all new construction, we just tell people upfront, just go ahead and it's a few hundred dollars extra when you're getting the survey. Just get it done. Get the topo, get the trees put on there. You know, I mean, trees are a big thing on there too, right? Because if there's like some big massive oak trees that either they want to incorporate into design or if they want to, you know, protect them or remove them. 00:15:55:05 - 00:16:05:15 Speaker 1 And how's that going? How's that removal of that tree going to affect the engineering? I mean, there's a lot of things that can affect. So we tell people, go ahead and spend a little bit extra money and get the get the trees put on there too. 00:16:05:15 - 00:16:15:22 Speaker 3 Yeah. Some people ask us, well what do we need on a survey. And I say everything manmade or natural. Yeah. Over everything. Powerlines. Everything. Exactly. 00:16:16:00 - 00:16:33:17 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, we, we had, my friend Jeremy, Jeremy McFarland from Brickman on here a couple times, and we've talked about conflicts with power lines. People don't think that don't always think to get the power lines. But on the surveys, like, you know, West, you Bel Air, some places require the power lines on there, but Houston doesn't right now. 00:16:33:17 - 00:16:50:16 Speaker 1 Right. And so you get all the way through the design and then you figure out the house is, is is in conflict with the radius that's required from a power line. And that's a big change that you have to make. So it costs, you know, so little to to do that while the surveyor is already on site. Why not just go ahead and do it? 00:16:50:18 - 00:17:06:17 Speaker 1 So how do you go about extracting that information? You, you, you know, you say that you like to the clients to come with the program, but how do you do you have a like a paper survey or an online survey or some kind of document or some way that you pull that information out of them? Because I think sometimes people just need a prompt. 00:17:06:17 - 00:17:11:22 Speaker 1 Right? There's things that they don't think about that you know, that you need to extract from them. 00:17:12:00 - 00:17:29:23 Speaker 4 Yeah. So at the intro meeting, we do just kind of talk with them about their program, but we send a worksheet out that has prompts for every single thing you could think of. Rooms, rooms, sizes. A lot of times people say, oh, well, my bedroom right now is way too small. I want the new one to be bigger. 00:17:30:01 - 00:17:36:11 Speaker 4 So we make sure that we have a documentation of how small is your bedroom right now? How much bigger does it need to be? Things like that. 00:17:36:11 - 00:17:48:03 Speaker 1 So, yeah, if you're telling me that your your 15 by 20 bedroom is too small for your kid, then, but you're trying to have a 3000 square foot house is probably not going to work right? 00:17:48:05 - 00:17:57:17 Speaker 2 Yeah. We, we kind of talked through it in our initial meeting with them. We don't have a worksheet, but that's a great idea. And we will soon, because I like that idea. 00:17:57:19 - 00:18:24:18 Speaker 3 Yeah. The worksheet is is great. We over the years, we've developed these guides someone's own time. They can, you know, download these guides and they it goes through what the process they can expect, what would be needed by them, even a checklist of questions that they can answer to point us all in the right direction. And the goal is to learn about them and their lifestyles in order to design, you know, the perfect home for them. 00:18:24:23 - 00:18:31:16 Speaker 1 Yeah, because it's not just what kind of rooms they want in the house. It's like how how they're going to use it, how they're going to live. Right? 00:18:31:18 - 00:18:56:15 Speaker 3 Yeah. We always say, how do you want to feel when you walk through the front door? Yeah. What kind of feeling do you want? You want it to be serene. Do you want it to be a nightclub? You know, do you want it to be shiny or, natural? You know, and what we get from that response means a lot, because we know that other people that are visiting their home will get that same, you know, reaction. 00:18:56:19 - 00:19:13:09 Speaker 1 Yeah, I've, I've had the, the, the advantage of seeing a number of these surveys from, from different design firms. And every time I see one, I'm kind of like extracting little nuggets to, to put in my own stuff. Right. But one of the, one of the things that I like is, is like, how do you like to spend your time? 00:19:13:09 - 00:19:41:20 Speaker 1 Like, like what do you enjoy? What do you enjoy doing in your in your free time? I mean, do you like to hang out and watch TV? Do you want to be outside in the yard? I mean, it's it's getting all those things, because, you know, you as the experienced design professionals may based based on that information may say, you know what you're telling me that you want these rooms in these spaces, but over here, you're telling me that this is how you like to live? 00:19:41:22 - 00:19:56:11 Speaker 1 You know, maybe I can make some suggestions to to make this work better for you. Because I think that people, you know, they've lived in the same house, let's say, for ten, for ten years or more, and they're just kind of stuck in a rut. They're like, this is how I live, because that's how I live now, right? 00:19:56:11 - 00:20:04:15 Speaker 1 Not not because that's the best way or how I want to live. It's just I put myself in this box, and I think that my next house kind of needs to be like this, too. 00:20:04:16 - 00:20:16:07 Speaker 3 Yeah. Like, we need to stretch our clients as much as we can early on in the process. I think stretching is the right word. It may be uncomfortable to them, but in the end it'll be very valuable. 00:20:16:09 - 00:20:44:01 Speaker 1 Yeah. We're going through, pre-construction with a client right now and another architect and, the the homeowner is adamant that he wants to roll his or he he outdoor kitchen. He doesn't want to have his big green egg and his gas grill built in. He wants to have him on wheels because, you know, he he doesn't want to cook undercover and but and so we're like, okay, let's let's think about this. 00:20:44:03 - 00:21:00:07 Speaker 1 You still need a place to store him. And it's kind of a very unique, site. So you want to take this thing and you want to roll it out from under your cover every time you want to cook. But, you know, if you do that, you're going to be close to this fence. You're going to be close to this overhang, right? 00:21:00:07 - 00:21:19:10 Speaker 1 And you're going to have all this fire and smoke and hot air going up and hitting either your soffit or it's going to be up against your fence. And what if it's raining? And, so, you know, we've he came to us saying, no, I don't want a built in grill, but, you know, through, through kind of talking through it. 00:21:19:10 - 00:21:30:13 Speaker 1 We convinced him, you know, we need to build this thing and we need to put a range hood over it. We need to kind of, you know, just just because that's the way that you've done it, your last house, that's not the way you have to do it here. 00:21:30:15 - 00:21:57:01 Speaker 4 Yeah. I think it's also in the world of Pinterest. When people see something and they think, oh, that looks really neat, but it doesn't necessarily align with how they live or how their family works in functions. It's also kind of our job to guide them in that as well. You know, they see something or their friend has something at their house, you know, or something like that, and just kind of helping to make sure that it fits with what they need. 00:21:57:03 - 00:22:14:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. Or even for the climate. Right. Like, you know, big, big giant sliding glass doors. So like, if, if you're telling me that you're not an outside person, but you want these giant sliding doors that cost 30,000 to 20, $30,000, and you, you know, you're not going to open them. Why are we doing this? 00:22:14:02 - 00:22:36:01 Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah, I like that. Allison brought up Pinterest because most of our clients have a hard time developing a program. However, we had a client that brought in from core boards with Pinterest, probably 30 pictures on each board of each room. And it was it was amazing. It was amazing, you know, and we get a lot from that. 00:22:36:06 - 00:22:41:13 Speaker 3 So there's, you know, there's no right or wrong way, but, we're looking for information. Yeah, yeah. 00:22:41:19 - 00:22:56:08 Speaker 2 We find that Pinterest can help if used correctly at other times when it's just, mish mash of all different styles and different ideas and trying to filter through like, okay, what do you actually like about these pictures? Yeah, that component. 00:22:56:14 - 00:23:02:23 Speaker 4 Bringing clarity when you've got all sorts of different styles and all sorts of different sizes and types. But what do you really want. 00:23:03:04 - 00:23:17:04 Speaker 1 Yeah, Pinterest or house.com or great tools. But yeah, it's it's it's drilling down. Okay. Here's a picture of a kitchen that you like. But what do you like about it. Is it the cabinets. Is it the countertops. Is it the layout. Like there's there's a lot going on in this picture. What do you like. 00:23:17:04 - 00:23:18:15 Speaker 3 Yeah. It starts to conversation. 00:23:18:18 - 00:23:34:08 Speaker 1 Especially with exteriors. Right. Like here's some exteriors of houses that I like. Is it the shape of the roof. Is it the windows. Is it the color. Is it the texture. Like what do you like. Right. You know, one thing that you we talked about was they need to have a handle on is what kind of what style house they want to build. 00:23:34:09 - 00:23:50:02 Speaker 1 Do you think it's important and it's okay if we have some some disagreement on this, but do you think it's important that someone chooses a either an architect or a builder based on what's in their portfolio, styles of houses that they've built or designed? 00:23:50:02 - 00:24:06:21 Speaker 3 I think it's only natural for people to gravitate to what they've seen of your work. I don't think they should. I think they should be more open minded. They look at the big picture, but I think that's human nature just to focus on what they're comfortable with, either be it modern or or traditional. 00:24:06:23 - 00:24:24:21 Speaker 2 Yeah, I'd say I think I do think people tend to do that. I would say I as a young architect with a young firm, I wish that they wouldn't, just because being located up in The Woodlands, most of the projects we've done are modern farmhouses, but we don't want to only design modern farmhouse. 00:24:24:23 - 00:24:25:13 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:24:25:14 - 00:24:46:20 Speaker 2 And so we've been really fortunate lately to have some clients who came to us and want us to design something that we have not done before in our office. We've, you know, our team has done it working for other architects. But like, nothing that we can put on our website and say, like, here's something we've done. So we feel that we can design whatever a client asks us to design. 00:24:46:20 - 00:25:08:15 Speaker 2 And so I hope that people are not selecting purely based on what we've done before, but more what you know, how the the fit in the relationship and things like that feels because it this this process is a very long process. We spend a lot of time with our clients. And so I think as important as like what have we designed in the past is, you know, how are we going to get along during all of this? 00:25:08:15 - 00:25:16:17 Speaker 2 And are we going to be are we going to be listening to your needs and kind of be able to interpret those into a design that fits your lifestyle? 00:25:16:19 - 00:25:34:09 Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, I, I tend to agree with that. At Mirador Group, we don't really have a style that's set. If you look at our portfolio, it's pretty, pretty varied. And that's because we like to say we're going to build the style of house that you're wanting, and we're going to do it really well, whatever that style is. 00:25:34:09 - 00:26:11:10 Speaker 4 And so it kind of gives the opportunity to have that flexibility. I think it really is about the relationship because you're, you're in this relationship with the architect for as long as the design process. And, and then, you know, for over a year at least build process typically. And, so making sure that you're comfortable with the talent, the, the, understanding and the process and all of those kinds of components of the architect that you're meeting with and a builder that you're meeting with, that's really more important, that you have that trust level with them. 00:26:11:15 - 00:26:12:07 Speaker 3 00:26:12:09 - 00:26:33:10 Speaker 1 I think it's, sometimes dangerous to ask somebody who's never done a certain style. And I think I think modern, though, is, probably the most sensitive to this. So, like, if you were to go to a builder who's never built a really modern house and ask them to do it, or maybe an architect who's never designed a really modern house, ask them to do it. 00:26:33:10 - 00:26:52:21 Speaker 1 That's a little dangerous, in my opinion. So if they've never done it before, I think it's dangerous. If they haven't done much of they've done some. Okay. That's fine. If they have some experience now, if they, if they if they've got ten traditional houses on the website and two modern, you know, they've done some of that in the past, it's cool. 00:26:52:23 - 00:27:13:05 Speaker 1 And the reason I say that is I've, I've been involved with some projects where, you know, the details have not been thought through very well. And so we get a set of plans where essentially we're kind of having to figure out all the, the details on a very complicated house, all the, the, the, you know, the wall sections and the intersections in the, in the terminations. 00:27:13:05 - 00:27:26:18 Speaker 1 Like we're having to figure it out on the fly. And I go back to the architect and I'm like, hey, what's you know, what do you want here? He's like, I don't know what do you think? You know, like it's not my job to design this on the fly, right? Like I need the complete set of drawings. So same thing. 00:27:26:18 - 00:27:49:21 Speaker 1 On the flip side, if you're great at designing modern houses, you probably need to find a builder who's done some of that. Because executing some of those details and having the trade base to do it too is important. You can't always go to a guy who just builds a bunch of traditional houses with lots of crown molding to cover up corners that might not be square, and ask him to execute a super clean, modern design. 00:27:49:23 - 00:28:04:02 Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, I, I do agree with that. Modern is is a very particular thing. You know, you're going to have this level five wall finish and clean corners and all of that kind of stuff. And so you do want to make sure that they have a trade base that can support that. For as a builder. 00:28:04:03 - 00:28:34:03 Speaker 3 You need to go back to your question about style and if they should hire based on the architect's previous work, I would suggest, anyone looking to build to, Yeah. Go on. You know, Google and look through architects, you know, websites in your area but interview, you know, meet with them a handful at least. And just because it's really more about the, the, the feeling you get, you know, can you work with this person? 00:28:34:05 - 00:28:40:04 Speaker 3 It's really a personal business. And, that just doesn't come through in the website generally. 00:28:40:05 - 00:29:01:19 Speaker 1 Absolutely. Yeah. I agree, you should not hire an architect or a builder, just based on what's on the website. Well, I say that someone might have an absolute terrible website that looks I was built in the 90s. That might not be the person that you want to talk to. Just if if they can't spend the money to tell you to keep their website semi up to date, and. 00:29:01:21 - 00:29:03:13 Speaker 3 It says something about. 00:29:03:15 - 00:29:04:07 Speaker 1 You know, it's. 00:29:04:10 - 00:29:05:05 Speaker 3 Something about us. 00:29:05:05 - 00:29:13:22 Speaker 1 It's, it's it's like rolling up to an appointment in an, in a beat up car or we're in shorts and in shorts and a t shirt. It's it's a certain level of professionalism. Right. 00:29:14:00 - 00:29:33:10 Speaker 2 Yeah. I would, I would just say though, also when looking at an architect's website, kind of like what Dwight was saying, I do think it's important to interview them and maybe ask, you know, do you have experience in this style? Because, you know, our office, we're a team of ten people, and those ten people are bringing knowledge and experience from past places of employment. 00:29:33:10 - 00:29:46:14 Speaker 2 Sure. That we don't put any of that on our website. Right, right. We we didn't do it. And so there could be a there could be a really large wealth of knowledge. There that we just can't market. But it doesn't mean that we can't do it. 00:29:46:15 - 00:30:06:14 Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I definitely agree that, having those those conversations is, is the best, the best way to go. But, I guess what I was trying to say was this if someone's in, let's say nobody in your office has ever done a modern house, I would have a hard time recommending, a client go for that. 00:30:06:14 - 00:30:32:08 Speaker 1 Just like if I had never built a modern house, I wouldn't expect you guys to try to to to to refer me to build that either. It's, I mean, I think that, especially as you're going up into the higher end of the price spectrum, having experience in executing a certain type of project becomes more important because the expectation of the client becomes more and more kind of the higher the higher you go up that price ladder. 00:30:32:08 - 00:31:03:04 Speaker 1 Right. How how active do you want or rephrase that, how off, how active should a homeowner expect to be in the design process? Should it be? We're going to have, you know, expect to have three meetings, as a, you know, how much back and forth is there how how, how involved should people expect to be? 00:31:03:06 - 00:31:39:10 Speaker 2 We, so we, we kind of set that expectation in the beginning and in, in our proposal, we lay out kind of all the different phases of design. And we actually put in there like the number of meetings that should be expected in every phase. Just to kind of prep them for that. But we also preface that by saying, you know, every project is different and depending on how, depending on how quickly we're able to interpret what you're asking for, and also is depending on how quickly you're able to make up your mind on some things, you know, that number of meetings could change a lot. 00:31:39:12 - 00:32:04:10 Speaker 2 But kind of another part of your question of how active they should be. It's really important, as we talked about earlier, for them to be very active and engaged in those meetings, because if they're just kind of, you know, halfway paying attention to what we're showing them and saying, yeah, that looks good. And then we find out later they were kind of on their phone and not really not really considering what we were proposing. 00:32:04:10 - 00:32:15:14 Speaker 2 That can turn into problems if we find out that, they actually didn't think through any of this, that we were showing them. So their active participation in meetings is crucial. 00:32:15:16 - 00:32:32:07 Speaker 1 Yeah, it's it's it's shocking how many, people, will be in the construction process and will will build some things on the plans and they'll say, what did you do that that's on the plans? I didn't know that was in the plans. Okay. How did you not know was in the plans that, you know, did you not attend the design meetings? 00:32:32:09 - 00:32:32:16 Speaker 2 Right. 00:32:32:16 - 00:32:54:19 Speaker 3 Yeah. And a lot of clients don't read plans very well. You know, we're used to doing it, and that's how we were educated. So it's second nature, nature to us. But it's important to understand that this is a new process for them. And if we can have multiple meetings to walk them through each part of the design in the process, it's going to be just that much better. 00:32:54:23 - 00:33:23:10 Speaker 3 We've had clients that didn't want to be involved with the process at all. We maybe had early meetings and they just they just didn't want to be involved. That's that's not that's not typical. But it has happened. And it's not a very, it's not a very comfortable position for an architect, really. Honestly, we're not to take it or leave it kind of firm where we just say, you know, this is our art and you're going to love it. 00:33:23:12 - 00:33:35:13 Speaker 3 We're just that's not how we operate, though. There are some that operate that way and which is fine. So we we just rather have it be a dialog and a conversation, between us and, and the user. 00:33:35:15 - 00:33:54:15 Speaker 4 Yeah. I mean, I would agree, I think communication is super important in the design process. This is their personal home that they're going to be living in. So at the end of the day, everything really needs to be geared to the client. And so at the beginning we put together a project schedule where we have key milestones where the client definitely needs to approve certain things. 00:33:54:15 - 00:34:18:13 Speaker 4 So not specifically that this is a meeting, but this is just a milestone we need to reach. That might be 2 or 3 meetings. It might be one. And then constant communication via email and phone conversations and things like that, just to make sure that our design team is moving along the right track, that we're getting feedback from the client in regular intervals and that they're fully involved and invested in the process. 00:34:18:15 - 00:34:32:05 Speaker 1 Yeah, you don't want to spend all this time to get to go to the next phase of drawings, and then you have to to circle to go back to the beginning because they didn't listen to something that you told them early on. So you get on down the road and they're like, oh, I want to go back and change that. 00:34:32:05 - 00:34:36:09 Speaker 1 You're like, well, changing that now involves changing the whole structure, right? Yeah. 00:34:36:14 - 00:35:01:04 Speaker 3 Some people that are listening may not know what the phases are. And, they're important milestones. And we start with schematic design. It could be pre-designed before that but typically schematic design. Then we go to design develop and then construction documents and then construction observation or administration. But we found it's very important even in the early stages the schematic design will present the drawings to them. 00:35:01:04 - 00:35:13:16 Speaker 3 We'll give them a week or so to digest them, ask questions, but we'll have them sign the documents because that they really I think that's tangible to them that they they released us to move forward. 00:35:13:18 - 00:35:29:22 Speaker 1 Yeah. And I mean, in most design firms, if you kind of work backwards, if you get in the door and you got to get back, there's usually some extra fees involved. Going to go back and rework that. Is that is that a fair statement for the way you guys work? 00:35:30:00 - 00:35:55:07 Speaker 2 Yeah, I would say depending on where we are in the process for sure. And just like Dwight said, I think it is important. We also have our clients sign that, you know, they're approving this portion of work so we can move on to the next. And, and that's, that's for our sake as well as the clients sake so that they understand that, like if you make it make any changes after this point, your understanding that there will be additional fees incurred. 00:35:55:09 - 00:36:09:13 Speaker 4 Yeah. I mean, we go with the conversation of during schematic design, major changes are possible during design development. Minor changes are possible during construction. Documentation don't make any changes you know. Yeah. 00:36:09:14 - 00:36:10:22 Speaker 1 Like very minor changes. 00:36:10:22 - 00:36:22:03 Speaker 4 Going to the finish line. We're trying to get this in for permit. We're trying to meet your your timelines, your deadlines. Make things clear for when the builder is going to be able to start construction. And so, you know, we don't want to change anything at that point. 00:36:22:07 - 00:36:39:00 Speaker 3 Yeah. Those are really good points, Allison. Because at the end of the day we're there advocate. And we there's some give and take there in those phases. You know we're we're not just saying, oh we're going to charge you. We're going you know we're not obviously that way. I don't think any of us good architects are that way. 00:36:39:01 - 00:36:43:06 Speaker 3 You know, there is some give and take. We're just protecting their interest in their time. 00:36:43:08 - 00:36:59:02 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, I've seen people get all the way to to CDs and say, you know what? I want to make a major change. It's going to change the footprint of the house. And it's like, man, that's that's that's pretty major. It's not just the it's not just the the bird's eye floorplan view that we're changing here. 00:36:59:02 - 00:37:24:12 Speaker 1 We're changing the elevations and everything by making that change. And so it's understanding that, that that's a lot of time involved. I think you're going to have to have to pay for. Right. Dwight, you mentioned, the construction observation, construction administration kind of being kind of the, the, the, the last phase there. Right. You know, I think that some people view that and some architects don't require that. 00:37:24:12 - 00:37:42:22 Speaker 1 Some say if you're going to work with us, we have to do CA but some people make it optional to where it's like, hey, do you want to hire us for CA? You know, as a builder, I, I think it's super important to have your, your architect doing CA, some builders might feel differently. They don't. 00:37:43:00 - 00:38:04:21 Speaker 1 They may not like that. For me, it's having another set of eyes on the project just to make sure it's, you know, because we make mistakes. Y'all make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes, right? So if we all have our eyes on it together, we're catching those mistakes as we go. So, talk about how you talk about CA, with your clients. 00:38:04:21 - 00:38:10:10 Speaker 1 And is that something that you always do? Sometimes do. And how do you how do you approach that with them? 00:38:10:12 - 00:38:36:21 Speaker 3 Yeah. We call it observation, because it's not a, it's not really we're not trying to we're not telling the builder how to build. We're just, second set of eyes, and we, we do it a we we started our firm in California, and, we've been here about ten years, and it was, interesting coming here that not all architects do CA. 00:38:36:23 - 00:39:04:03 Speaker 3 But, we, we do it, regardless of how we structure it in the field, we do it not only to protect the homeowners, but to protect ourselves. Yeah. And, you know, part of that is we've gone through this lengthy process, you know, of designing with a client, and we always tell clients that there's no set, perfect set of plans because there's not a client can't afford a perfect set of plans. 00:39:04:04 - 00:39:32:17 Speaker 3 Right. So where they're in construction to convey questions that may come up that the contractor would not been privy to. And so, yeah, there's a long process with the client that maybe not everything made it into the plans, but they're we're there to make the process smoother in the construction of the project. And the goal is just to, make it make the time, you know, valuable. 00:39:32:19 - 00:39:56:17 Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah. I mean, we for all of our custom residences, do construction administration, at the very beginning of our process, when we're laying out the information about what each phase involves, we have, set of site visits that we have a list of and say, these are site visits that we would like to be involved in. These are things that we think are very important. 00:39:56:19 - 00:40:15:08 Speaker 4 And at the beginning of the construction process, when we are meeting with the builder, we come up with a plan of how often are we going to be on site? How how do you want that contact to happen? Do you want the builder to contact us directly and we respond, do you want to be the go through and decide when you want to involve us? 00:40:15:10 - 00:40:37:01 Speaker 4 So it's really a conversation with the homeowner as to how involved they would like us to be. But we always are involved at some level. You know, like you were saying, with the plans, not everything can can be in there, or there might be some detail that doesn't work out or even during construction, there's something, a site condition that we weren't aware of that comes up. 00:40:37:01 - 00:40:53:04 Speaker 4 And so we like to continue being a part of that team through not just the design process, but through the construction process of helping to problem solving come up with solutions that are going to get the homeowner to the goal and the result of what they're really wanting to have. 00:40:53:06 - 00:40:54:05 Speaker 1 No. 00:40:54:07 - 00:41:16:04 Speaker 2 Yeah, I would say we our preference is to be involved during construction observation, but we do make it optional. And part of the reason why we make it optional is I don't know if this is a product of where our our firm is located, but up in the woodlands, for whatever reason, most of the people in North Houston have it in their minds that you approach a builder first and not an architect first. 00:41:16:06 - 00:41:49:23 Speaker 2 So we've built a lot of good relationships with builders and builders, bring us a lot of custom home projects, and some of those builders want us involved during construction and some don't. And so we make it optional. But the important thing for us is that it's very clearly defined in our scope of work, whether or not we're involved in construction observation, because like Dwight was saying, if if something goes wrong during the construction process and we were never meant to be that second set of eyes, we don't want somebody coming and blaming the architect for something that was maybe built not according to plan. 00:41:50:01 - 00:41:56:22 Speaker 2 So we, like I said, definitely prefer to be involved, but we don't make it a requirement. 00:41:57:00 - 00:42:13:04 Speaker 1 I mean, there's some liability there, right? I mean, I'm not I'm not too privy to the all the world of architectural, legal, you know, the whole legal side of it. But I would assume that there is some, some legal liability on the architect and the engineer, too. And so by doing that, you're giving yourselves an extra layer of protection, right? 00:42:13:09 - 00:42:28:12 Speaker 3 I think, you know, it might be the opposite. By us not being out there and things happening, we actually have less liability. Oh, I think that's actually true. But we want to avoid those issues, you know? Yeah. For everyone. Not just for us. 00:42:28:14 - 00:42:48:19 Speaker 2 Yeah, I have, I have heard that. Which is why we make it very clear in our contract that I've heard air attorneys say, if you are not going to be out there, make sure it's in your contract that you're not out there, and it does actually lessen your liability. But as architects, we want to make sure that what we're designing comes to fruition the way it was meant to be. 00:42:48:19 - 00:42:52:01 Speaker 2 And that's really hard to do if we're not out in the field during construction. 00:42:52:07 - 00:43:19:12 Speaker 1 Yeah, we we love having architect, engineer, interior designer, you know, building performance people like owner, like all those people onsite doing inspections, just having a conversation because, yeah, there's no perfect set of plans. There's no perfect builder. So when things come up, it's let's just talk through them and figure out how to how to make it as the best product that we can for the client. 00:43:19:12 - 00:43:38:12 Speaker 3 Yeah, we want to make it an enjoyable process for the client, too. You know, we don't want them getting a divorce halfway through the project or something crazy like that. You know? I mean, there's a lot of stress that goes on in a project, but, I think by us being there and like I said, being their advocate, I think it helps. 00:43:38:14 - 00:43:54:03 Speaker 4 Yeah, not just for the client. It's also for the relationships with the builders and with the engineers. You know, being part of that team and working as a team throughout construction makes for the next project to be really great with that builder or that engineer. 00:43:54:05 - 00:44:02:23 Speaker 3 Yeah, we suggest the structural engineer at least be on the job during the foundation. And the framing, those two phases. 00:44:03:01 - 00:44:24:12 Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. What what are the, the biggest, areas that you've seen there be conflict and a construction project and, all the way to the beginning through design. And so, like, what are the biggest, areas for conflict that you've seen with homeowners and architects, homeowners and builders? 00:44:24:14 - 00:44:48:20 Speaker 2 For, for us, it mostly has to do with schedule of just a misunderstanding of maybe how long things take or how certain decisions might prolong a part of the process, or you know, how changing something is going to make us have to go back and redo some work that was already done, and therefore the schedule is going to stretch out. 00:44:48:20 - 00:44:59:16 Speaker 2 That's typically, I think something that if a homeowner is going through the process for the very first time, they don't really have a good idea of how long it takes. 00:44:59:16 - 00:45:03:09 Speaker 1 And it takes like two weeks to, like, sketch up a house, right? I mean, come on. 00:45:03:11 - 00:45:26:01 Speaker 3 Right. Yeah, I think I think that schedule, I think is a big one. I don't know if conflict is the right word. Maybe. Maybe it is. Maybe doesn't, depending on the situation. But, yeah, I think schedule is is hugely important to, you know, just keep them in tune with what's going on and, where we're at in the process. 00:45:26:03 - 00:45:59:04 Speaker 4 I think another thing, again, I'm not sure if conflict is the right word, but just need to communicate, is if there's a lot of changes, like, you know, if people like, like we talked about in the phases, if they're in the construction documents and they keep wanting to make changes, I think that can be where there's a little bit of friction, because then there's you have to have the conversation about additional fees or services and how those changes can affect things, and then how those changes affect cost in the long run. 00:45:59:06 - 00:46:10:14 Speaker 4 Even during construction, if there's changes that are being made in the field and they're getting change orders from a builder, you know, a lot of times that can cause conflict if there's not really clear communication about what's happening. 00:46:10:16 - 00:46:31:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. How about budget, where, you know, you kind of get to toward the end of design. Let's say a builder is not involved early on. Right. Let's say they go through the design and then they want to price it out. How do you handle it with, those bids that they're getting start coming in way over budget and you kind of have to to go back and scale back. 00:46:31:23 - 00:46:36:15 Speaker 1 Is there ever any, any conflict at that point? 00:46:36:17 - 00:46:50:10 Speaker 2 There's definitely opportunity for conflict. And hopefully, hopefully the conversations have been had throughout the process to kind of prepare for that. And, but yes, that's definitely, a potential source of conflict. 00:46:50:11 - 00:47:10:10 Speaker 3 I agree, Matt, managing expectations is, really super important with, with clients just to let them know along along the way. You know, what's changing? You know, what cost maybe, increasing and. Yeah, just what we're looking at from step to step. 00:47:10:12 - 00:47:35:00 Speaker 1 Do you ever have any something we touched on last time with the builders, but do you do you ever have any, any issues with people in design where they kind of want to design and try to, to design a house for, like, every potential scenario that might happen in their life, instead of kind of designing for, for kind of where they are now and where they're going to be for the next, you know, time periods, they say they're going to live in this house. 00:47:35:02 - 00:48:04:04 Speaker 1 We, we have people that we see them going through the design process, and they're talking about planning for things that for, for, scenarios that they're running that might happen, you know, let's say their kids are in elementary school now and they're trying to design a house for when they have grandkids. I mean, how do you keep people focused in on designing something for kind of the way you're going to live now and for, you know, some growth but not going too crazy on eventualities? 00:48:04:06 - 00:48:21:23 Speaker 4 I don't know if we've had that particular type of thing, but we have had people who think about resale, you know, so they're they want to design for themselves. But they don't want it to be too custom that nobody else is going to want to buy it, or they don't want to leave out certain rooms that everybody is expecting in this neighborhood. 00:48:22:01 - 00:48:43:12 Speaker 4 And I think that's smart. I don't think it's necessarily a problem to design with that in mind, as long as you know they are still happy living in the space for the time that they're going to be in it, that it doesn't end up changing things so much because they're trying to build for resale, that they're not happy in the house. 00:48:43:14 - 00:49:07:05 Speaker 2 Yeah, resale was the first thing that came to my mind as well, that people make decisions based not on what they want, but what they think. Some hypothetical person in the future might want. Yeah, yeah. I also also see, though, a lot of people, maybe thinking ahead to, well, my, my parents are getting older. They may they may want to come live with us within the next five years or so. 00:49:07:05 - 00:49:18:07 Speaker 2 And so they'll, they'll kind of carve out a space in the home for that, which, I think is a great idea. Personally, I think it's it's good to plan ahead. And if it fits within your budget, go for it. 00:49:18:08 - 00:49:40:15 Speaker 3 But yeah, we're seeing more and more of that, you know, just, identifying, say a granny flat or an extra unit or whatever it might be because that could be multi-purpose, you know, it could be for elderly parents, or it could be for a rental. Could be. Yeah, used for many different things. I think, master planning is, is really, a good idea for all projects, you know, regardless if you build it. 00:49:40:15 - 00:49:45:01 Speaker 3 Day one, master, plan it out and get it in the plans. 00:49:45:03 - 00:50:06:02 Speaker 1 Yeah. Resale items, like, like putting a bathtub in the in the master bath or, like, I will never use a bath tub, but in our neighborhood, we have to have a bathtub, right? Like, well, you don't have to put a bathtub in your house. You know, it's, you know, you're going to spend 3 to $5000 for this nice floating tub that that you're never going to use, right. 00:50:06:04 - 00:50:14:02 Speaker 1 And I think if you go and interview most people out there, they never use a bathtub. They're only putting it in because everybody else thinks that. They think that everyone. So it's one, you know. 00:50:14:07 - 00:50:15:18 Speaker 2 I think that's very true. 00:50:15:20 - 00:50:19:20 Speaker 3 Yeah. We do renovations as well, and we're taking more of them out than we are adding them. 00:50:20:01 - 00:50:40:18 Speaker 1 Yes, exactly. I mean, what what are your thoughts on on on those types of things, on, on whether it's a bathtub or whether it's you got to have a of course, media rooms are kind of I think have kind of gone, gone by the wayside like dedicated media rooms. But what are your thoughts on on putting in these spaces that are more just for resale? 00:50:40:18 - 00:50:44:13 Speaker 1 The people don't really aren't going to use. 00:50:44:15 - 00:51:04:17 Speaker 2 I think, like Dwight said, if it can be a room that can be used for multiple purposes, then it it might be worth looking into. If it, if it, if they can use it for something today and then somebody else can very easily convert it into another use in the future, then I think it's, it's worth considering. 00:51:04:19 - 00:51:28:04 Speaker 1 Or maybe if it's, or if it fits in their budget. Right. Like don't don't say that. You have to have this thing for resale, but your budgets is already getting tight, you know. But yeah, don't try to shoehorn it in there just because you think you have to have it right. All right. Well, what else? What else do you guys, have in mind that people may not think of when they come into the process? 00:51:28:04 - 00:51:30:16 Speaker 1 Y'all got anything else for me that we haven't touched on yet? 00:51:30:17 - 00:52:08:19 Speaker 3 You know, it's it's a a small number of people that go through the want to go through the process of hiring an architect, you know, compared to people that just go and get the traditional, track house. And I think a lot of people are just scared of the process. Either it be they don't know what it's going to look like, they don't know what the process is to get, you know, to do this, to hire an architect, or maybe they don't even have a piece of property yet, but, I think that's to start by finding an architect will alleviate a lot of that. 00:52:08:19 - 00:52:12:12 Speaker 3 Those fears and apprehensions. 00:52:12:14 - 00:52:32:20 Speaker 2 Yeah. I think the one thing that I would hope people, understand is, is have a better grasp of what the role of an architect is meant to be in the project and that, we're we're not just there to design something. Well, that's a big part of what we do. We also help them manage the project and bring in consultants. 00:52:32:20 - 00:52:56:00 Speaker 2 And, the architect is is never going to have all the answers. But part of our job as architects is to know where to go to find the answer and to know who to involve. If so, that everything is kind of, addressed properly. And, so there's, there's that aspect of project management that I think plays as big a role in a project as the design side of what we do. 00:52:56:02 - 00:53:20:00 Speaker 3 Yeah, we always say design is 10% of what we do, and it it oftentimes seems that way. And I think back to, you know, Frank Lloyd Wright would design a building in five sheets. And we're oftentimes, you know, 40 sheets for the architecture alone. And a lot of time goes into that. And a lot of that is management is not necessarily design. 00:53:20:00 - 00:53:43:08 Speaker 3 It's it's getting the documents to a stage where for a contractor to build the municipality to approve, it's all those things. There's just less those days of Frank Lloyd Wright. They spent the time in the field. That's the reason why their plan sets were so small. But we're in a, you know, a different situation now, which is fine. 00:53:43:08 - 00:53:50:09 Speaker 3 But, yeah, I mean, we find that design is a very small part of the whole the whole deal with, developing a project. 00:53:50:09 - 00:53:52:00 Speaker 1 Anything else? Alison? 00:53:52:02 - 00:54:14:16 Speaker 4 You know, I'm just echoing what those guys have said. You know, the biggest thing is that we're here to be the partner with the homeowner and to make sure that we're providing them with, the, the tools, the education, the support, the management that is needed to get this home completed. This is what we do every day and to a lot of custom home clients. 00:54:14:16 - 00:54:26:06 Speaker 4 This is their one, maybe their only time that they're doing this. And so just, want to make sure that people know that we're here to support them throughout the entire process. 00:54:26:08 - 00:54:30:07 Speaker 1 Awesome. All right. What what I think it's live for today. 00:54:30:07 - 00:54:45:18 Speaker 3 Then I'd like to give a shout out to Alison and Matt today because I'm a I don't like a lot of people. I Google people, you know, when I first come across their name. And I just think, the work you guys are doing is fantastic. And I just want to put that out there. 00:54:45:20 - 00:54:52:03 Speaker 2 No thank you. I, I googled you too, and I think your work is I hope to be where you are one day. 00:54:52:09 - 00:54:54:17 Speaker 3 So thank you. Appreciate that. 00:54:54:18 - 00:55:16:05 Speaker 1 That's awesome. Yeah. I mean I think all you guys do fantastic work, which is why I asked you to come on the the podcast. So I really appreciate all you guys being here today and, imparting your wisdom. Real quick, before we go, let's just go around and give us your, your either your website, social media, kind of whatever you want to put out there for the world. 00:55:16:07 - 00:55:27:08 Speaker 4 Well, our website dot Mirador group.com. It's also our Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, all of our social media accounts. So all right how to get in touch with us. 00:55:27:09 - 00:55:47:10 Speaker 2 Yeah. Our website is ww.moment-architects.com. We have Instagram TikTok too. Even though I have no idea what TikTok is about. I have a great office manager who knows how to use TikTok. And so I said, go for it. But yeah, you can find all of that on our website. 00:55:47:12 - 00:55:47:22 Speaker 1 Awesome. 00:55:48:03 - 00:56:06:23 Speaker 3 Yeah, you can find us at Dwight Patterson Architects, dot com or any of the social media sites. And if you're new to the process and would like to learn more, go to our website. And, I think it's on the about page. You can download some guides to the process that that could help you get started. 00:56:07:01 - 00:56:17:16 Speaker 1 Awesome. Well, we'll be sure and put links to all your websites and social media on the show notes and on on YouTube and all that kind of stuff for people to find. So thank you so much for being here today. 00:56:17:19 - 00:56:19:03 Speaker 4 And thanks for having us out, Curtis. 00:56:19:07 - 00:56:20:17 Speaker 3 Yeah, thank you so much, Curtis. 00:56:20:17 - 00:56:41:03 Speaker 1 All right. And thank you all for listening to this episode of the your Shepherd podcast. We hope to see you next time. Bye bye. If you want this episode, you throw it into the mix. If you found this helpful, enjoy listening. Please support us by liking and subscribing here on your podcast platform, and also join us on our YouTube channel. 00:56:41:05 - 00:56:57:05 Speaker 1 We want to continue to bring you high quality content and expert guests, and your support truly helps us to continue this journey. If you have any questions for me or my guests or any feedback for us, you can email us at podcast at your project shepherd.com. Thanks again.