00:00:05:17 - 00:00:29:22 Speaker 1 Hello friends. Welcome to the Your Project Shepherd podcast. I'm your host, Curtis Lawson, and we are here to teach that every successful construction project has four components demonstrated by the simple drawing of a house. The foundation is proper planning. The left wall is your team. The right walls, communication and the roof is proper execution. Have all four of these components in place and your project will succeed. 00:00:30:00 - 00:00:52:11 Speaker 1 We're here to help professionals and homeowners alike make the best decisions about designing, planning, and building custom homes. If you'd like more information about how Shepherd can help you with your project or business, visit us at your project shepherd.com. And now, here's today's episode. 00:00:52:13 - 00:01:13:14 Speaker 1 Hey friends, welcome back to the Your Project Shepherd podcast. I'm your host, Curtis Lawson. And if you're a homeowner and you want to build a custom home, or if you want to remodel or add on to your home, do you know where to start? Or do you wish that you could learn how to get started? Or maybe you're a contractor and you're listening to this episode and you want to get better at creating a good customer experience? 00:01:13:16 - 00:01:32:18 Speaker 1 Well, either way, you're in luck, because today I am joined by three of my friends and fellow builders to talk exactly about that. So I am so pleased to introduce to you today, Sam Sidel with Southern Green over here to my left, George Gomez with the Reds comm across the table and Brian Phillips with Case and Gray Allaire. 00:01:32:18 - 00:01:33:12 Speaker 1 Welcome, guys. 00:01:33:17 - 00:01:35:01 Speaker 2 Are there any glad to be here? Yeah. 00:01:35:04 - 00:01:35:23 Speaker 3 Thank you. 00:01:36:01 - 00:01:52:19 Speaker 1 So before we get started, why don't we just go around the table and each of you, again, just tell us a little bit about your company and what you guys do. And then at the end, we'll we'll do a little short, session of giving out websites and all that kind of stuff, too. And we'll also be sure to link that on the podcast as well. 00:01:52:19 - 00:01:59:02 Speaker 1 But, Sam, let's start with you. Tell us about Southern Green and what you do and how long you've been doing it and all that good stuff you bet. 00:01:59:04 - 00:02:31:05 Speaker 2 So we've been, in the business for about 15 years, so, got started over In the Heights, doing a lot of, additions, remodels to historic structures. That kind of grew out up into Sunset Heights, Oak Forest, and then all throughout the city. And then in about 2012, we made a transition from, just additions, remodel type projects to, to new construction. 00:02:31:06 - 00:02:50:06 Speaker 2 And then, we've been doing that ever since. So right now we service greater Houston area. And then we are building in, rural areas around town. So, we've got a staff of about, nine folks and, yeah, just, just loving it. 00:02:50:11 - 00:02:51:20 Speaker 1 Awesome. George. 00:02:51:22 - 00:03:11:10 Speaker 3 So as far as rest. Com, we've been in business for about eight and a half years. Paul and I, which is my business partner. We were both production builders in the past, so that's kind of where we started. I started back in oh five, building for a couple of the, local, volume builders, and, so I really enjoyed it. 00:03:11:13 - 00:03:30:12 Speaker 3 And did it started at a after school, after college, I started, building pretty much right after college and have been doing it. Love it. Wouldn't do anything else. And we do a little bit of new home construction, but mostly remodels. That's kind of been our, or our niche that we found, and we've gotten good at it. 00:03:30:12 - 00:03:33:11 Speaker 3 So the phone still rings every day. Why not stick with it? 00:03:33:11 - 00:03:35:06 Speaker 1 So awesome, Brian. 00:03:35:08 - 00:03:56:17 Speaker 4 Sure. So, like these guys I started, my career working for, a volume builder back in 2000 and then went into business myself and, oh five, we build mostly custom homes with a small percentage of our work, our remodels. And the geographic, you know, spread has, has been, quite a bit in the last several years. 00:03:56:17 - 00:04:11:05 Speaker 4 We build on the far west side of Houston, for sure. And, Katie, we build all the way down at Galveston. And then primary markets, Bel Air, Brace Heights, Meyer Land west, you and some of the villages, things like that. 00:04:11:07 - 00:04:50:05 Speaker 1 Awesome. So all all three of these guys are on the, GBA? Actually. So Sam, Sam's partner drew, is on the custom Builders Council board with me and Brian. You're on the Remodelers council board, correct? Yes. Yeah. So, all these guys, and I are on the, the councils at the Builders Association together, and, you know, although we are technically all competitors, I've said this many, many times, like, I, I view you guys as friends and colleagues and not so much competitors because, I mean, there's so much work in Houston that, like, we could all stay busy. 00:04:50:06 - 00:04:51:04 Speaker 2 I don't want all of it. 00:04:51:04 - 00:05:16:01 Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't I don't want your customers. No, I mean, there's, there's there's so much work in Houston and like I've said, I would rather see, you know, you guys get a project that I don't get than somebody who's out there that doesn't know what they're doing. Chuck, in a truck type situation, I want people to have a good customer experience and work with a company that's reputable, that's going to be there to to warranty the work later on, who's going to treat them right. 00:05:16:01 - 00:05:22:20 Speaker 1 So you know, I, I, I love I love having camaraderie with other builders and not feeling like it's competition. 00:05:22:21 - 00:05:51:07 Speaker 2 I'm going to I'm going to say something to that. I really appreciate that. Because I think that, a lot of the horror stories that clients have about either building a new home or doing a large edition remodel type project, come from the folks that are not doing it the right way and not willing to share best practices and have these, these types of discussions. 00:05:51:09 - 00:06:10:11 Speaker 2 And so, I want to continue to do that too. I do the same thing. If I find out that, that a potential client is talking to you or, or or Brian or and or any of these guys that, that, it makes me feel good that they're headed in the right direction. And hopefully we can cover some of the topics that you should be thinking of. 00:06:10:11 - 00:06:14:21 Speaker 2 If you are thinking about, building a new home or, or doing a larger residential project. 00:06:14:21 - 00:06:39:17 Speaker 4 So to lose a project to a builder, colleague or just any other reputable builder is something that I can sleep much easier with compared to, and I share this with everybody. Like there's no licensing for homebuilding in Texas, so to lose a project to a builder that maybe just isn't doing things right, or worse, has ulterior motives. 00:06:39:19 - 00:06:49:18 Speaker 4 That's where I kind of lose sleep at night, because I feel like I didn't do my job, educating clients along the way in that, in that that pre-construction process. 00:06:49:20 - 00:07:17:07 Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I can I agree with you guys and what y'all are saying and one thing, that we did whenever we started was shortly after, starting the businesses joining the GBA. And I think that has really given us, an valuable resource, which is you guys like a bunch of the different builders and colleagues that are willing to not just share information, but, you know, just talk about our everyday struggles and everyday things that we're going up, against, you know, with the clients. 00:07:17:07 - 00:07:33:12 Speaker 3 And so I think it's been it's been invaluable for us to, you know, to be on the other side of it, to be able to, you know, talk to you guys on a regular basis, very open about, you know, some of the things that we got going on and get tips and helps, you know, it helps for. 00:07:33:12 - 00:07:44:05 Speaker 1 Sure. One of the questions that I ask what I'm meeting with with prospective clients is, who else are you talking to? Or if an architect sends me a set of plans, I'm like, hey, what other builders are you sending this to? You know, and if I like. 00:07:44:05 - 00:07:46:08 Speaker 4 The ones where they say, I don't want to answer that. 00:07:46:10 - 00:08:09:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, invariably, I mean, I'll hear some of the same names. Oh, you know, we're we're talking to Southern Green talking earlier. You know, if I hear those same names, it makes me feel good. First of all, that the architect or the client thinks that I am in that same circle, right? Because it it validate, it makes me feel validated that, hey, I'm sure I'm in the mix with some other legitimate guys. 00:08:10:01 - 00:08:30:11 Speaker 1 But I tell the clients, I said, you know, all these guys that you're talking to, I would be happy to hear that you're working with any of them. You know, make your decision based on, a personality fit. And does it fit in their schedule? You know, don't make don't make your your decision based on. 00:08:30:13 - 00:08:55:19 Speaker 1 Oh, that is way cheaper, right? That's that's what I mean. Because honestly, I think most of us, you're going to be more or less in the same ballpark cost wise. At least that's the feedback that I've gotten from people in the past. And, you know, yeah, you know, Sam and Drew might have a cheaper AC guy or electrician or drywall guy that swings the price a little bit, but probably not that much to make a big difference in the project. 00:08:55:19 - 00:08:57:10 Speaker 4 Overall. It should be pretty comparable. 00:08:57:10 - 00:09:16:19 Speaker 1 Yeah. Should be. It should be pretty much the same across the board. So, you know, what's a red flag for me is a, they mentioned some guy that maybe I feel like is probably not doing things the right way. And they're like, oh, well, this guy is it, you know, $900,000. And you guys are telling me 1.5, I'm like, well, what does that tell you? 00:09:16:21 - 00:09:18:15 Speaker 1 You know, so huge red flag. 00:09:18:15 - 00:09:42:06 Speaker 4 We had one in the last, I'll just say in the last quarter, where, we lost the project. And the client felt very confident the numbers weren't far off. And what you just described, we wound up with a very comprehensive proposal, total transparent pricing and everything. And we were in the little bit over 1.3 range for construction contract. 00:09:42:08 - 00:10:03:14 Speaker 4 And he said that he's got someone that can do it for for quote, less than a million. And so I knew I wasn't going to convince him. But now I went into this mode of, okay, I got a this guy has chosen us to be a trusted advisor through the planning phase. I got to give it one last, you know, bit of advice before they move on with this other builder. 00:10:03:16 - 00:10:24:14 Speaker 4 And so we opened up our budget and I just said, so you feel comfortable that this other builders cost plus margin is below our cost because we show them everything. We show them all the pricing, all the quotes and everything. And when I put it like that, he wasn't as confident, but he had already made this decision. 00:10:24:14 - 00:10:42:02 Speaker 4 He was moving on. And I just said, look, I don't know what's going to happen on this project a few months from now, several months from now, but we're here as a resource if, if and when things go poorly. But yeah, like you said, it was just a builder that just threw something out there. Some people are interested. 00:10:42:04 - 00:11:02:04 Speaker 2 And I've got a a recent story as well. I'm working on a, another project with an architect in town, who made reference to a situation that happened to us very similar to yours, about two years ago. And his first comment to me when we started talking about the new project was, man, I'm glad you didn't get that last one. 00:11:02:04 - 00:11:03:17 Speaker 4 Yeah, I've heard that before. 00:11:03:19 - 00:11:25:05 Speaker 2 And he was like, it was a disaster. There were change orders. There was miscommunication. They blew your number out of the budget. Out of the water. Yeah, well, you know, once they were finished and and it's, you know, it's it's hard for us to have a large enough platform to let the world know that that really does happen. 00:11:25:05 - 00:11:42:02 Speaker 2 That's not some marketing statement or like, we're making this up, like when you have proper, scope evaluation and pricing and someone is drastically below that, it it is a it is a giant red flag and should be paid attention to a thing. 00:11:42:04 - 00:12:05:10 Speaker 1 Yeah. So one of our, one of our jobs as builders, is to set expectations with our clients, and people are going to come to us with different sets of history, past experiences. Some people, it's the first time they've ever done something like this and the last time they'll ever do this. Right. And other people have done this before, and they've had bad experiences for one reason or another. 00:12:05:12 - 00:12:23:23 Speaker 1 You know, and that bad experience could be project management. It could be, you know, budget, timeline, whatever. So when when someone comes to you to talk about a new, whether it's a remodel or a new home project, and how do you handle that? How do you set expectations upfront with a new build, a new prospect? 00:12:24:05 - 00:12:46:15 Speaker 4 I want to start by just asking a ton of questions. What what are they know so far? I want to, you know, and a lot of families won't come to a meeting or initial call ready to just share all their information. So we've got to pull a lot of that out of them. Some really just want to know if it's new construction, you know, what's your price per square foot? 00:12:46:17 - 00:13:07:17 Speaker 4 As if we just we just have a set rate, and that's what we charge, and you get what you get. But it's more important to sit and listen, let them take the conversation wherever it goes. And then just start learning more about their priorities, and budget goal. Those are my main two things I want to try to find out from them in an initial meeting or initial phone call. 00:13:07:19 - 00:13:32:00 Speaker 4 And you don't always get there, following the same path on an initial call. So it's just an opportunity for them to speak and whatever they're talking about, that's their priority or that's their main concern. So I want to hear all of that. And then I kind of have a sometimes a cheat sheet. Sometimes it's just, you know, you know, from heart where, I want to learn what those priorities are and why they're building and things like that. 00:13:32:02 - 00:13:51:06 Speaker 4 I think all too often there's builders that are just ready to get their plans developed, specifications, get their design choices and give them a quote. And I think that's a that's a bad recipe for a lot of families that sometimes we'll talk people out of building a new home if it's not right for them. 00:13:51:08 - 00:13:52:11 Speaker 1 Absolutely. 00:13:52:13 - 00:14:11:23 Speaker 3 No, I agree, as far as on the new home construction side, I think there's a lot of, initial planning and thoughts that go into building a custom home. So you get a lot of clients are like, hey, you know, I'm going to go spend seven, $800,000 on a production home. Why not, why not? Why don't I build houses? 00:14:12:04 - 00:14:27:15 Speaker 3 Why don't I build a custom house? It's going to be, better. You know, a lot of times I get the idea that it's going to be the same cost. And there's a lot of there's a lot of costs at the beginning that they have to take on upfront, to build a new home versus, you know, a production home. 00:14:27:15 - 00:14:48:14 Speaker 3 And so, I think educating the customer on those initial thoughts, making sure that if they're calling you for something and that it's something that's, an attainable kind of, you know, project. So, you know, what are their expectations? What are their budgets? And kind of where they're at in the process is kind of where we start. 00:14:48:16 - 00:15:04:12 Speaker 3 And then that'll really kind of dictate, you know, where we go next and what kind of meetings we set up next for them. But, I mean, there's times where they come to you and they have an unrealistic expectation of what the house should cost them and what it should, time wise on what, you know, how quickly they can get it done. 00:15:04:14 - 00:15:21:22 Speaker 3 And, I mean, we've turned away people and said, you know, I don't, you know, I don't think that we are the right builder. Or sometimes we've talking we've talked customers out of doing a custom home just because they're not educated on what all it takes to, to get one going, you know? 00:15:21:23 - 00:15:42:18 Speaker 2 Yeah, I think I think we have a similar process to to what you guys are talking about. I will add, though, I think, part of what I have started rolling into that initial conversation is it is an interview, of the client as well. Okay. So just some, basic interchange of this is. 00:15:42:20 - 00:15:44:16 Speaker 4 By the way, they're not supposed to know where anything. 00:15:44:17 - 00:16:09:18 Speaker 2 Yeah. So so the cat's out of the bag. You know, but you have to you have to remember that, if we're if we're joining the process, before the design is complete, you could be with this client for two years. And that's a that's a really long, consistent relationship that you don't see in most industries. 00:16:09:18 - 00:16:32:15 Speaker 2 I don't think you know, it's like, here's my widget, here's the money. Have a nice day type of deal. Maybe a maybe a smoked turkey for Christmas or something. But you're you're you're interacting with, this group of people, as well as the design team, engineers and other professionals, for, for an extended amount of time. 00:16:32:15 - 00:16:58:05 Speaker 2 So, I'm open about that in, in that first discussion is to say, this is how I feel about it. These are the some things that are important to look at and really making sure that you have a solid relationship. But then it's also, trying to find out what what are the project goals, you know, is there something unique that's going on in their family life? 00:16:58:07 - 00:17:17:12 Speaker 2 Do they have special needs children? Certain. Aspects of how they're going to use the home timeline budget? You know, we're we're reviewing all of that as well. But I just think it's important to, to really, take a look at the personalities because it's a, it's a, it's a long term, long term deal. 00:17:17:12 - 00:17:34:04 Speaker 3 We, we try to be honest with them at the beginning and let them know that, hey, this is an interview for us as well to make sure that, you know, not just where the good fit, but you guys are fit as clients, you know? And so, you know, we've started to be more open and upfront about that situation with them as well. 00:17:34:06 - 00:17:53:03 Speaker 1 Yeah, I like what Brian said that, you know, we're we're going to be their trusted advisor through this too. I mean, we we have to help them make a good decision. So part of that is understanding what their motivations are like. Why are you building what brought you to this point? What are your biggest concerns in this process? 00:17:53:03 - 00:18:12:16 Speaker 1 Like so I was in fact, this morning before this recording, I was, meeting with a couple and, you know, I said, you know what? Like, what are your biggest concerns? Like, they just went through a big remodel project, and now they want to build a new house. Okay, well, what what what happened good or bad, during that remodel process? 00:18:12:18 - 00:18:31:00 Speaker 1 And why why are you wanting to build a new house if you just did a remodel? You know what? What's what's driving you to that point. And it was really interesting to hear their feedback and and for them to tell me what was important to them. And it it's it's always it's surprising sometimes what they tell you. 00:18:31:02 - 00:18:48:21 Speaker 1 You know, they told me this morning that the quality of the subcontractors was of utmost importance because on the remodel, they just did. They hated the subcontractors, like the subcontractors were going back and redoing the same things, and things didn't work the way they were supposed to work. And it's because the the, the previous guy had a bunch of cheap subs. 00:18:48:21 - 00:19:09:08 Speaker 1 Right? And so they're like, hey, who, who who's your air conditioning company? Or are they experienced in doing this type of air conditioning system. So that that helped me, that helped me get a lot of insight into what's important to them. And they also just built a vacation home in Utah, like ground up to. And so I got that feedback, like, how did that process go? 00:19:09:08 - 00:19:11:05 Speaker 1 Like what? What did you like about that? 00:19:11:05 - 00:19:32:21 Speaker 4 So there's no better client than somebody that in their recent history has gone through a new build or a major remodel. Not not because we need them to we didn't need some other builder to educate them, but we can really learn what their priorities are. And that question right there just, you know, ability of the subcontractors to some other family, it's going to be budget somebody else that's going to be timeline. 00:19:32:23 - 00:19:41:05 Speaker 4 And if they've gone through it, once they have, I feel better answers to some of these questions if compared to those that have never done. 00:19:41:05 - 00:20:01:15 Speaker 1 Yeah. And they have some, some level of expectation of of how this is going to go, whether that was the previous guy set a really good or a high bar or a really low bar, at least they, they've, they've seen the steps, you know, and they, they've gone through it and they kind of know what's, what's going to come. 00:20:01:16 - 00:20:16:20 Speaker 1 You know, one of the things they said this morning was, hey, this guy in Utah use this, the software called Builder Trend. And we loved it because he had all the stuff plugged in there. We could see the schedule. We could. And I was like, well, you know, we do that too. So and they're like, we're so happy to hear that. 00:20:16:20 - 00:20:30:12 Speaker 1 We love that, you know? Yeah. So, you know, setting expectations is, is a is a huge thing. Like what what unrealistic expectations have you encountered that people have come to you. 00:20:30:12 - 00:20:32:06 Speaker 4 Timeline and budget. 00:20:32:08 - 00:20:35:03 Speaker 3 I would say the same thing timeline and budget. I think time did I. 00:20:35:03 - 00:20:36:11 Speaker 4 Get it right? 00:20:36:13 - 00:20:38:08 Speaker 1 Yes. You get a gold star. 00:20:38:08 - 00:21:05:16 Speaker 4 Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, so that oftentimes we're having that initial conversation and to save time I go straight to some of those questions. We want to learn first, you know, get them comfortable. Why are you building where are you building all those sorts of things. But when we get down to it, timeline and budget are the two biggest differences between building a new home or a major remodel versus buying an existing home. 00:21:05:18 - 00:21:43:09 Speaker 4 And so that's where I want to get to pretty quickly. And there's a lot of information out there on the internet regarding, you know, the the big national suburban volume building. That's where, you know, when you see, national averages or statewide averages of what, a new home cost, etc.. That's what's at people's fingertips. But in reality, when you're building a custom home on your lot, whether it's right in here in the city of Bel Air or West University or way out, in the county somewhere, there's a dramatic difference in what the actual cost. 00:21:43:10 - 00:22:11:04 Speaker 4 You know, they like to boil it down. The cost per square foot is a huge difference in what that cost per square foot can be from building a unique home on your property versus versus the volume builders. And the same exact thing exists with regard to timeline, the timeline of building a unique home on your property compared to going to a volume builder neighborhood, choosing a lot with a builder, a floor plan, some design choices, and and off you go. 00:22:11:04 - 00:22:23:21 Speaker 4 So those are the two big things right away, where we have to ask what they know so far and help guide them and make sure they know that's not necessarily the case, to to build on. 00:22:23:23 - 00:22:45:05 Speaker 3 And those are variables that they control as well. You know, the customers as far as changes make making changes and selecting, selections. And so you can give them an answer, but that can change, you know, and a lot of it is based on, you know, what they're selecting and what they're doing, what they're designing into these floor plans. 00:22:45:05 - 00:23:05:03 Speaker 1 So yeah, I mean, so so I can give you an idea of a range that we fall in in the, in the past for similar projects, but there's just so there's so many variables. I mean, but I can tell you what we can't get to, you know, when they call us and they're like, oh, you know, I heard that I could build a new house for 125 bucks a square foot and be done in six months. 00:23:05:03 - 00:23:07:16 Speaker 1 Well, I can tell you right now we can't do that. 00:23:07:18 - 00:23:08:06 Speaker 4 00:23:08:07 - 00:23:10:02 Speaker 1 What other unrealistic expectations? 00:23:10:07 - 00:23:53:05 Speaker 2 I think one, pretty large one is the the understanding of the concept that this is one of the largest purchases that, individuals or families or couples will make. And it is one of the last products that is almost entirely hand-built. Okay. And this is a concern, a misconception, of some, some, some of our clients is that when you have that many human hands involved in a project, it is at times imperfect. 00:23:53:07 - 00:24:24:20 Speaker 2 Some of the production builders have almost gotten to the point of House factory because, I mean, it's if you've ever been out to a master planned community and seen these houses go up, it's it is it's it's dang near a factory. For custom home builders and and large, additions remodel, builders like us. We're we're creating something that nobody's ever built before, and there are literally hundreds of, of hands involved in that process. 00:24:24:20 - 00:24:48:09 Speaker 2 And so it's I think it's important to have the clients understand that while you would like it to unfold like a, you know, like, like a product coming off of a line, sometimes there are things that have to be done before other things and, making sure that they have that understanding of a crafted love it. 00:24:48:11 - 00:24:49:11 Speaker 1 Love it. 00:24:49:13 - 00:24:50:23 Speaker 2 Project. Yeah. 00:24:51:00 - 00:24:54:11 Speaker 1 Somebody picked a great company name. That's all I'm saying. 00:24:54:13 - 00:25:14:15 Speaker 2 You know, that's just a that's that's a, that's a, that's a different, a different approach. And I'm just I'm bringing that up because I'm, I'm having to have that conversation more and more and more than I did ten years ago. Because, I mean, this day and age, it's I get what I want right when I want it, and everything is boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. 00:25:14:15 - 00:25:22:10 Speaker 2 I'm, you know, all on online and, and so it's, it's important for them to understand how this is actually, done. Yeah. 00:25:22:10 - 00:25:48:03 Speaker 1 I mean, and that affects timeline, right. Project schedule. It affects cost because something customer one off cost more than something that's sitting on a shelf that you can buy. But also, I think that one of the unrealistic expectations and this is at the, at the end of a project and this reveals itself maybe in like punch list and hand over time is a quality expectation of perfection too, right? 00:25:48:05 - 00:26:09:12 Speaker 1 It's like you said, it's a handmade product. It's there's no such thing as a perfect house, and there's no such thing as a perfect paint job. And I think people have this expectation of they're going to walk in at the end of the project, and they're not going to see any little tiny spots in the drywall, and everything's going to be this flawless, smooth factory finish. 00:26:09:12 - 00:26:39:17 Speaker 1 Right. And it's understanding that this stuff is handmade. This stuff is, and and there's, and there's, there's levels to everything. Right? So if you're paying, you know, if you're paying 1.3 million, well guess what? You could have spent 1.5 and gotten a whole nother level of finish. But that wasn't in your budget. Right. So you have to understand that you you're getting what you what you bought, and that you're not going to achieve perfection. 00:26:39:19 - 00:27:05:23 Speaker 4 It's a professional builder's job from the from the day you meet someone, all the way through delivering the home through through occupancy to set their expectations properly. And as a custom builder, I know, I know, $3 a foot painters, I know $8 foot painters and 15, $20 a foot painters. And as a true custom builder, you can offer all of those to your client. 00:27:05:23 - 00:27:37:16 Speaker 4 So it's it's take them taking them through a process, educating them along the way. It's not just, you know, this refrigerator, this refrigerator and this one, that extends through countertops and painters and trim, carpenters and and other things like that. So, if you get to the, the delivery stage or your or the turnover stage when you're, introducing the home to the new clients and their expectations haven't been set, with regard to what what they're getting the level of finish I think the builder missed at that stage. 00:27:37:18 - 00:28:05:00 Speaker 4 You've got to educate them along the way. Most of it, in my opinion, should be done pre-construction. Talking about a lot of those things, not just the things where you can look at at model numbers and, and skew numbers and look at the price and look them up online. But the level of drywall finish and painting and trim carpenters and, and the things that they should expect for their price point, learning what their priorities are, and delivering the stuff that's most valuable to them. 00:28:05:00 - 00:28:17:11 Speaker 4 So if you get to that stage and they're upset with regard to the level of finish or the or the level of, you know, perfection, I think the builder missed something along the way. 00:28:17:13 - 00:28:40:11 Speaker 2 So I think that that is a challenge, and I think it's important for us to, to make sure we throw that out on the table of how challenging it is to teach someone what they don't know, because there is a discovery process, you know, early on about how much do they know and how much do they want to know, how much are they? 00:28:40:14 - 00:29:23:11 Speaker 2 Are they handing over to to us to do and do a good job on? And so if, if you are someone who is, who is getting ready to, to, you know, take this journey and and create a custom home, I think it's important for you to be open to listening and and trying to understand these things because, therein lies the challenge is, is like, if someone is not willing to listen to some of that stuff or really understand the number of decisions and details that are involved in this process, it it can become, it's hard to make that that balance out. 00:29:23:11 - 00:30:02:21 Speaker 2 So, you know, again, having this type of discussion, I view it as, as really getting some things out on the table that, that, that might be uncomfortable or some people don't think about, but, and that that is what drives the, the experience. That's what drives the, the, the final unfinished product. Some of our best, projects are the ones where the client continued to ask questions and was open to learning and show me that, or having me understand that the the ones that say it's, you know, just do it, it's easier for them to come behind you and say, well, I don't like that. 00:30:03:02 - 00:30:25:00 Speaker 2 Okay. Well, you know, let's try to get on the on the same page there. And we've made a lot of changes internally to, to accommodate that, in terms of breaking things out in as much possible detail as we can, to, to introduce to folks, I use an example and, and, my introductory meetings, based around sheathing. 00:30:25:02 - 00:30:38:21 Speaker 2 Right. I have about four different, sheathing options, samples that I lay on the table. I would say 80% of the clients that I'm meeting with don't even know what that is. 00:30:38:23 - 00:30:41:07 Speaker 4 Curtis. That's the wood that goes on the. 00:30:41:09 - 00:30:43:14 Speaker 1 Oh, thanks. Thanks, thanks. 00:30:43:15 - 00:31:03:07 Speaker 2 You know, it's a pretty important part of the house, right? It's the outside of your house. And so, so, you know, laying those things out there, begins to have them, or starts to have them understand, you know, what they do and what they don't know. And that we're here to say for what you're trying to spend. 00:31:03:09 - 00:31:13:21 Speaker 2 We're trying to get you the most possible, the highest quality or the most, you know, the most out of this project, but bang for your buck, that's it. So anyway. 00:31:13:23 - 00:31:36:14 Speaker 3 And just like you said, prioritizing their budget, finding out what is important in them. Okay, well let's take some of this and spend it here because this is what's important to you. And we can, you know, expand those budgets where, hey, let's, you know, upstairs bathrooms, hall bathrooms, those are real good places to save money. If, you know, they want to put more into into a master. 00:31:36:16 - 00:32:06:23 Speaker 3 And I think educating them as far as the quality and the level of quality is big, one thing we've noticed is especially when they haven't been through these projects or like a big remodel or a build is this is an emotional process. So once it starts, you know, you get you get some emotions coming out. So I think at the beginning you can try to set all the expectations and communicate that and have your team, you know, architects, designers, builder, client all on the same team, right? 00:32:06:23 - 00:32:25:07 Speaker 3 As far as trying to plan and the stages of the process. But once it starts, you know, and work is gone and things and they're starting to show up and see work going on, I think the emotion comes out sometimes. And so, we've had to kind of reset at some points, sometimes on some of the projects. 00:32:25:07 - 00:32:37:04 Speaker 3 All right, guys, let's meet again and remind everybody that we are all on the same team. We all have the same objective here, and we're trying to, you know, build this thing as as best as we can for the budget. And. 00:32:37:06 - 00:32:58:15 Speaker 1 And people have people have life situations. They have external stresses that we are not aware of too, that can be driving that emotion. So, you know, whether it's a illness or financial whatever, it's life. Right? So people having things come up and that makes them more emotional because we're dealing with the thing that's probably nearest and dearest to their family. 00:32:58:15 - 00:33:08:05 Speaker 1 It's their home. So it's already an emotional thing to begin with. And you throw it outside stressor on top of that. It's just a recipe for a blow up if things aren't handled properly. 00:33:08:05 - 00:33:19:08 Speaker 4 Have you guys ever experienced divorce in your clients over the years? One one we had two. After planning before construction and then one right after construction. 00:33:19:08 - 00:33:21:14 Speaker 3 Right after we've had one after move in. 00:33:21:14 - 00:33:30:12 Speaker 4 And there was obviously, I'm sure, underlying issues, but building a new home or a major remodel can't help. I can't imagine, can't help that situation. 00:33:30:12 - 00:33:33:14 Speaker 1 Yeah, it's going to bring out the worst in both people maybe. 00:33:33:20 - 00:34:07:08 Speaker 4 Yeah. And that gave me perspective after after learning about those just it was I don't know, I kind of felt like there was an even greater responsibility on the information we're giving them, whether it's, this is all pre construction contract, in my opinion. The information we're giving them, maybe it's an initial visit or phone call or it's like, hey, here's here's what you're getting into after asking a bunch of questions, explaining here's what you're getting into or taking them through the planning process, really just educating them on what what this is what they're really doing. 00:34:07:12 - 00:34:26:04 Speaker 3 They're going to make a lot of decisions in a short amount of time, you know, and that's very stressful for certain people. Some people deal with it, you know, better than others. But you can see real quickly in that process as it starts to unfold, if there's going to be a problem with, you know, has it been wife kind of butting heads? 00:34:26:06 - 00:34:31:17 Speaker 3 I think a lot of that shows itself up pretty quickly in the selection or design process. I like to ask. 00:34:31:19 - 00:34:49:15 Speaker 1 You know, would you prefer if we brought you option ABC and let you pick from these three, or are you the kind of person that wants to go to the showroom and look at a million different things, right. Because some people are like, you know, no, I'm already aware that I have, you know, analysis paralysis. That's that's overload. 00:34:49:15 - 00:35:21:17 Speaker 1 Just give me ABC, please. Right. And other people are like, no, I want to this is custom. I want to use every single detail and that's fine. If they want to do that and they're willing to pay for the design hours to do that. There then then yeah, it's great. But, it's I think we have to understand what they're, what they're capable of handling in that situation so that we're, you know, whether we do it design internally or whether we're referring out to an outside designer or whatever, we're putting them with the right person and kind of setting that up for success. 00:35:21:19 - 00:35:54:11 Speaker 2 You know, I also think it's important to to have them. Another misconception is I have a set of drawings now. So southern green, we don't have any internal architects, on our staff or in our office, you know, so we're doing third party, design, design homes and a lot of our clients, you know, they spent a lot of time programing meetings and and having these discussions, and, they, they don't understand that if there is a set of drawings, how can there be in the gray area? 00:35:54:15 - 00:35:55:07 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:35:55:09 - 00:35:55:17 Speaker 4 That's out. 00:35:55:20 - 00:35:57:10 Speaker 2 My like, here's my I. 00:35:57:10 - 00:35:59:16 Speaker 1 Spent $50,000 for these. Don't you know what to do. 00:35:59:21 - 00:36:23:20 Speaker 2 Yeah. And so should have been 70. So so one of the things I try to do is pull up those, those drawings and, and go to room tags and notes and, and and ask them, you know, this says brick. Well, I was having this conversation with, with a client last week. He's got a lot of brick on your home, you know what kind of brick is that? 00:36:23:22 - 00:36:57:03 Speaker 2 Well, I don't know. I mean, it, you know. Isn't it all the same? Yeah. And it's like, okay, you know, how are we finishing that brick? You know, what are the mortar joints look like? I mean, all of those different details, and, and because I think it's our responsibility as, as professional and good home builders to guide these decisions and, and, and help, just educate and create the environment where they do feel comfortable, even though there's a boatload of decisions. 00:36:57:06 - 00:37:17:04 Speaker 4 And it's. So I think I think all professional builders are eventually going to get to those decisions that have to be made, but more importantly, setting that expectation that these are examples of some decisions you're going to need to be making over the next several months, because some people that's what I said earlier, I've talked to people out of home building before. 00:37:17:04 - 00:37:26:18 Speaker 4 I've got realtor friends that are happy to send me clients just for a phone call, that maybe they just need to be talked out of considering new construction because they're not. 00:37:26:18 - 00:37:27:20 Speaker 2 Getting a commission on, they're not. 00:37:27:20 - 00:37:47:20 Speaker 4 Cut out for it. I think maybe one day I should because I've talked I handful out. Yeah. But it's just letting them know, setting that expectation that, hey, over the next several months, we're going to be making decisions like this and we're going to get into, you know, air conditioning specifications and, and talk about insulation and different types of windows. 00:37:47:22 - 00:38:21:12 Speaker 4 It's not just countertops, appliances and flooring and paint. It's all these other things. And that's our chance as builders to gauge their reaction to some of those comments or, or conversation, to decide one, if they should be building at all, or two if they're the right client for us. We have, you know, turned I don't want to say turn down, but we've just naturally passed on several families because we could tell that they weren't interested in diving into those details in early conversations. 00:38:21:14 - 00:38:39:09 Speaker 4 So we knew when this comes up later down the road, when they're actually paying for people's time, it wasn't going to go well. So if they kind of shut down, early on when we're trying to educate them on what they're about to embark on, that's a that's a sign for us to say maybe it's not the right man. 00:38:39:11 - 00:39:07:04 Speaker 3 Ironic that you say that. I just had the same conversation with my realtor last week. She called and asked me. She's like, I have a potential client. You know, would you be interested? And kind of gave me the feedback. Same thing. They out looking for a new home? Kind of toyed around with the idea of, oh, well, let's build, you know, and so I spent about 20 minutes with her on a conversation, just lining out everything that they're going to need to have before we even really start the process. 00:39:07:04 - 00:39:30:17 Speaker 3 Right. And she was she laughed. She's like, man, you you. I don't even want to build a custom house now. She's like, she's like, but it's setting those expectations, right? The worst is to try to start that process and have a customer that's not educated and waste time, waste their time, waste your time. It's just, you know, it's it's setting those expectations that, it's not an easy deal. 00:39:30:17 - 00:39:52:12 Speaker 3 You know, it's a reason why, you know, not everybody can come out and do what you guys do and do what we do. Up to, to to this level, as far as, you know. And I think that conversation with her, just like it started making me think like, man, I am kind of like, not to be a negative Nancy about building, but it's the truth. 00:39:52:12 - 00:40:19:01 Speaker 3 You know, it's a lot of the things that you have to think about and going into as far as cost upfront cost, you know, it's substantially much more than going and buying a house. The time and the decision making and the length of the process alone, you know, and so, after we sat down and talked to her because they wanted to build out and, need build, I believe it was build on your own lot, you know, had no idea about that. 00:40:19:01 - 00:40:37:17 Speaker 3 They had no idea about, you know, water wells and how long, you know, how long is this driveway going to be? You know, all that's gone. You know, they wanted to know the cost per square foot, you know? And so, not so easy just to answer that question. So kind of went into the, the kind of went into it with her and discussed this for a while. 00:40:37:17 - 00:40:42:07 Speaker 3 And she, you know, they realized real quick that they're not ready to build a custom home. 00:40:42:07 - 00:41:05:16 Speaker 1 So there's a lot of, there's a lot of overpromising and under-delivering, with, with people in our industry, unfortunately. So I think when any of us are honest with somebody that, hey, this is a 18 to 24 month process. You know, when we factoring in, you know, design and construction. Yeah. So when people come to us and they're like, hey, should I just buy a house or should I should I build? 00:41:05:16 - 00:41:30:19 Speaker 1 I'm like, well, first of all, if you decide to build plan on on moving in about two years from now between design and construction and that right there often to shuts it down, they're like, no, we can't wait two years right then and buy it, buy a house. It's already finished. But I think that I've seen a lot of overpromising where they're like, oh, well, so-and-so told me that we could be moved in in 12 months, okay. 00:41:31:00 - 00:41:50:03 Speaker 1 And and so-and-so told me it was only going to cost, you know, X amount of dollars and people will go to contract based on those those promises. You know, they're because people people want to believe what they want to believe. They want to believe that they can get that thing cheaper and faster. It's it's human nature, right? 00:41:50:07 - 00:42:04:16 Speaker 1 I mean, I question things to when when somebody tells me it's going to cost X amount or take they take a short amount of time. I mean, I question it, I mean, I do that with subcontractors, right? I'm like, you're telling me it's going to take you two weeks to do that? It's going to be $20,000. Ain't no way. 00:42:04:21 - 00:42:05:08 Speaker 1 Right. 00:42:05:10 - 00:42:33:09 Speaker 4 So when you hear that from clients that, you know, builder X says he could do it in this amount of time and for this price. Even after being in business for myself since oh five, I still struggle with how to properly react to that when I know what the truth is. I know what that family and without even knowing who the builder is, the path they're about to go down when I know something's impossible. 00:42:33:11 - 00:42:49:15 Speaker 4 That's something that, just as a builder, I've struggled with my reaction. And I think it just depends on how that day was going. Because sometimes it's just like, oh my gosh, what can I do to help this family? I'll, I'll say anything, I'll do anything. 00:42:49:15 - 00:42:58:12 Speaker 1 I it's easier over the, over the phone because you can, like, cover your face and like pound, pound the desk over the phone. Whereas if you're in person, you've got to like, keep your face in check. Yeah. 00:42:58:14 - 00:43:25:20 Speaker 4 And it's, I mean, it's, it's it's groups like ours, you know, through through GBA, CVC or MSI where, you know, we can share all we can with each other. But there's just still a contingent of builders and remodelers out there that I don't even think they're necessarily, doing anything nefarious. It's just inexperienced people. And again, I'm not advocating for licensing and in Texas, but anyone can do, legally. 00:43:25:20 - 00:43:37:16 Speaker 4 Anyone can do what we do. And there's families out there that are just getting bad advice from someone who's just not as experience. And how do you guys how do you guys handle that? 00:43:37:18 - 00:43:57:16 Speaker 1 I mean, I, I just say, okay, let's walk through this. You know, I'll just break down the timeline for him, okay? He's saying that you can be done in 12 months. All right, well, let's walk through that here. Here's all the steps. How do you think that that can be accelerated? Is that realistic? Right? Asked wise. Okay, here's here's why it costs that. 00:43:57:18 - 00:44:16:11 Speaker 1 How do you think he's going to achieve that cost that he's telling you and kind of try to walk them through it, and at some point they're just going to make a bad decision and you just have to let them go, right. I mean, I with my consulting company, I have a little bit of a different perspective because I can tell I can have the added bonus of throwing in there. 00:44:16:13 - 00:44:33:22 Speaker 1 You know, I have people that hire me on the back side of this to help them straighten out this mess. And I've seen these promises not play out. And here's what happens. Right. So I can kind of throw that out there and say, you know, pay me now or pay me later, right? But, Mr. Toner always says, right. 00:44:34:02 - 00:44:37:18 Speaker 1 He's like, payment or pay me later. But yeah, so. 00:44:37:20 - 00:45:10:13 Speaker 2 I think I think, you know, the reaction is, is as be as honest as possible. I try to create analogies where I can, you know, if you break your leg and you go to the emergency room, you are not haggling over time or budget, right? You go to a car dealership. I mean, I want the the truck that's in the showroom with all the stuff on it. 00:45:10:15 - 00:45:23:05 Speaker 2 Okay. But I'm not going to go to the the salesman and get that for the cloth seat ones in the back of the lot that no one wants. That's the ugliest color. And so you. 00:45:23:05 - 00:45:25:08 Speaker 3 Haven't seen me negotiate. 00:45:25:10 - 00:45:49:00 Speaker 2 Well, I'll take you with you next time. You know, so it's just trying to put it in their perspective. You know, a lot of the clients that we serve are successful business people or profession calls. They don't work for free. If if we had to compare margins, I'm quite certain that mine would be drastically below theirs. 00:45:49:00 - 00:46:08:00 Speaker 2 Mine would be below yours. That's why I keep losing projects to you. So, you know, it's having the, using analogies to really have them understand as the last ditch effort of, hey, you know, this is this is not a wise decision, but, you know, ultimately, you're going to make make it for yourself. 00:46:08:02 - 00:46:11:11 Speaker 1 I like to use the car analogies a lot. I mean, you know, I. 00:46:11:12 - 00:46:14:01 Speaker 4 There's a lot of parallels in the industries. Yeah. 00:46:14:01 - 00:46:15:06 Speaker 3 We use the car one a lot too. 00:46:15:09 - 00:46:26:21 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, are so are we building, or are we building a Toyota Camry or are we building, a Lexus? Are we building a Mercedes or are we building a Ferrari? Wouldn't you know which which which level I like to use. 00:46:27:02 - 00:46:34:00 Speaker 3 I like to use the F-150. Say, are we going with the base model? Are we going with the lariat, or are we going with the Raptor? It's, you know, got. 00:46:34:00 - 00:46:36:03 Speaker 4 Them for 40 and they have them for 100. 00:46:36:03 - 00:46:36:22 Speaker 3 Absolutely. 00:46:37:01 - 00:46:56:03 Speaker 2 Yeah. And and another and another piece to use in the in the car analogy is go to the salesman or the general manager of that dealership and ask for an itemized ticket, of every part and piece that has been put into that car. Are you going to get that? 00:46:56:03 - 00:46:56:22 Speaker 4 No, no. 00:46:57:00 - 00:47:04:04 Speaker 2 How much are you paying for spark plugs? Dealership one how much are you paying for spark plug to dealership? To which. 00:47:04:04 - 00:47:05:05 Speaker 1 Brand is part and what's. 00:47:05:05 - 00:47:16:16 Speaker 2 Brand of that? Are they good or they long you know, so it's it's you know it's it's painting that picture of why don't you ask for that when you go to a car dealership. Yeah. You know, but it's kind of the same. 00:47:16:18 - 00:47:44:03 Speaker 1 And as you go through the design pre-construction budgeting process, you have that opportunity to make that call on a million different things, like you can go Camry, Lexus, Mercedes on every component of the house. Right. And so like George said a while ago, it's understanding how they want to prioritize their budget. You know, they they might go with the the Camry or the or the Corolla in the kid's bath. 00:47:44:03 - 00:48:05:03 Speaker 1 Right. But for the master bath, they want the Maybach right. So but it's it's understood it's extracting from their heads. What's your or getting getting them to be honest with you about what's your overall budget okay. Now let us help you allocate how to spend that. But be honest with us about what your budget is right? 00:48:05:05 - 00:48:33:22 Speaker 2 I think that's a tough one for some people. The honesty of the budget for because they feel like, and I think a lot of dishonest or inexperienced builders do this where they hear that budget and it is, you know, $3.50 below that max budget is what they end up coming back with. And it's just it's a feeling in our clients that all of that is just fluff and margin. 00:48:34:00 - 00:48:57:00 Speaker 2 And I think because specifically for us, the way that we have built our presentation, we are able to show them that we're maxing that out, that this is where we put the, the Ferrari upfront. And, and this is where we kind of settled back off on the, on the, on the Camry. And so there it is. 00:48:57:00 - 00:49:13:22 Speaker 2 And that's our approach to building the trust up in that budget and, and execution. Part. But, you gotta you gotta put it out there. But they're hesitant to give it sometimes because they feel like you're just going to you're going to take advantage of it. 00:49:14:00 - 00:49:46:18 Speaker 4 They feel that that if whatever number they share, that's going to be our starting point for our price. Right? So it's our job to educate them on how we're going to put the project plan together through architectural, structural, interior design, all the specifications, all the choices they have to make. Once you can demonstrate to them that, we've built this team together and that this is not us versus you, depending on your pricing model, because there's, there's excellent fixed price builders and cost plus builders. 00:49:46:20 - 00:49:58:02 Speaker 4 And that I, I wouldn't let that one decision make or break. You know, your, your builder choice. But it's how you go about developing what you're going to get and what it's going to cost. 00:49:58:02 - 00:50:11:07 Speaker 2 Another analogy that I use sometimes in, in that's that same, line of thinking is, running a race, right? If somebody says or if you say, hey, you and Curtis are going to race. 00:50:11:09 - 00:50:12:11 Speaker 1 I'll say, I'll kill you. 00:50:12:13 - 00:50:16:03 Speaker 2 We do that. I'll do it right now. On your mark, get set. Go! 00:50:16:04 - 00:50:20:14 Speaker 1 Are we all going towards you? The victory right now. 00:50:20:16 - 00:50:35:13 Speaker 2 But, you know, are we running to, West? You are. We run into the into the parking lot, you know, so if you don't know where you're going, how are you going to get there most efficiently? You know, pacing yourself or you sprinting or whatever it is. 00:50:35:13 - 00:50:58:15 Speaker 3 So for one thing, on us, on the pricing kind of circling back to that, if some we do a lot of renovations as well. And those probably get, you know, picked apart a little bit more anytime you have a smaller job, I think, there's more competition and there's more, you know, neighborhood Facebook pages that, you know, everybody wants. 00:50:58:17 - 00:51:21:22 Speaker 3 Oh, how much did you pay for your kitchen? So, and so on, the bigger projects for us. So as far as the bigger renovation projects, you know, anything over like 200, you know, and up, those typically the clients, are going to go with who they feel a little bit more comfortable. You don't see as much of a, bottom line where people are just choosing because of the bottom line. 00:51:21:23 - 00:51:45:02 Speaker 3 But I think on the smaller stuff and, unfortunately, fortunately for us, we do we, you know, we do do some of the smaller stuff. We'll do a kitchen, we'll do a single bathroom, and a lot of it's referrals, past clients, this past week, we just did a couple of bathrooms for a client. It was actually one of the clients that we were just referring to. 00:51:45:03 - 00:52:04:15 Speaker 3 Finished their project. They are no longer in the home anymore. But they reached out to us because their parents wanted their both of their bathrooms done. So we went out, did their bathrooms, and, you know, it turned out great. So, but they didn't look at the price. They trusted us. They went on us trust and knowing that we were going to do the right thing. 00:52:04:15 - 00:52:21:01 Speaker 3 But I we noticed a lot of that. You have a lot of chucks and a truck that can do a kitchen, you know, significantly cheaper than what we could. And, you know, it's not going to be the same quality typically. And I mean, we've had clients that went with the cheaper out also call us back to come in. 00:52:21:01 - 00:52:45:11 Speaker 3 And now it's costing them double to to to fix it, you know. So I think for us on the smaller scale jobs, you do have a lot more of, questioning your pricing. And why are you, you know, more expensive than, you know, the person down the street that's not using licensed plumbers and licensed electricians. And so, a lot of times, you know, I start there and kind of I'm not sure what they put in their bid. 00:52:45:11 - 00:53:02:19 Speaker 3 I'm not sure, you know, but we can go over it. We can go over my bid. You know, I'm I'm open to looking at taking a look at their bid. At the end of the day, we typically know these people. They're referrals of someone. We don't do a lot of advertising. So most of our, you know, my work is referral based. 00:53:02:19 - 00:53:27:00 Speaker 3 So, we want to at least educate them and steer them in the right direction. Hey, who are you going to go with if you do not if you end up choosing not to go with us, we just want to make sure that you are in good hands. And so if I know the company or know the people that they're going to choose, you know, typically I'll tell them, well, you know, like that, that would be a that would be that I would feel comfortable with you going with that person. 00:53:27:02 - 00:53:50:20 Speaker 3 Or hey, you know, I would be very careful about going with that person. And so, you know, that's kind of, for us, the remodel side, we deal a lot more with that. It gets a little frustrating sometimes because you are dealing with, neighborhood Facebook pages and people that, you know, they want to play GC and get it done cheaper and so and and sometimes they can, sometimes it works out. 00:53:50:20 - 00:54:02:21 Speaker 3 But, every project and every customer is different. So, what they got and you know, what the prior customer and the maybe they had a successful do it yourself project doesn't mean that this person. 00:54:02:21 - 00:54:11:13 Speaker 1 Well, yeah, we do a lot of small projects as well. I, I like to do big stuff and small stuff because the small stuff kind of helps fill in the gaps and yeah. 00:54:11:15 - 00:54:12:01 Speaker 3 Same. 00:54:12:01 - 00:54:40:03 Speaker 1 And, keep cash flow going all the time because big, big projects can sometimes stall out and take forever or whatever. Right. So yeah, we do, some bathroom and kitchen projects as well. But I think the, I think kind of the, the process for us is the same no matter what it's getting my first step in either, either way, is getting them to share with us kind of what their expectation for budget is and just being honest with them. 00:54:40:03 - 00:55:00:04 Speaker 1 If they if they say, hey, my my neighbor said he got his bathroom remodel for $20,000, like, okay, well that's not something that I can do, right? Like I'm, I'm going to be for a bathroom that size. We're going to be in the 40 to 60 range, you know, and if you're comfortable with that, then let's, let's dig into those details. 00:55:00:05 - 00:55:14:12 Speaker 1 Let's, let's make some some design decisions and figure out where that's going to land. But big or small, I think we have to just set the expectation. For a budget and the, the very first visit, if we can. Right. 00:55:14:15 - 00:55:17:12 Speaker 4 Letting the know if it's, if it's realistic or not. Yeah. 00:55:17:14 - 00:55:34:01 Speaker 1 And if they're insistent on I can do it for 20, it's like okay, well what's, what's in that 20. Right. Is he just going to strip the tile off and put some new tile on and drop a new cabinet or countertop in? Because maybe we could do that for 20, I don't know. But until we dig into the, into the details, we don't know. 00:55:34:03 - 00:55:48:21 Speaker 1 But it's also educating them and saying, okay, if, if, if you're just stripping tile off and or and replacing a cabinet and a countertop, you know, what about code issues? What about GFCI outlets? What about putting an exhaust fan in? What about insulation. 00:55:48:21 - 00:55:49:18 Speaker 4 In the walls? What are those? 00:55:49:18 - 00:56:24:03 Speaker 1 What? Yeah, I mean, it's it's just a process of educating the client on what all goes into that number to help them make a good decision. Something that that, one of y'all touched on a second ago, I think, was you, talking about the team. How how important is the team? The team. And again, whether it's some of this is internal or not, but, you know, architect, interior design engineer for all those parties that go into whether it's a remodel or you construction, how important is that team? 00:56:24:05 - 00:56:35:20 Speaker 1 And, you know, why should that team be firm? It should be familiar with each other and and have some history there. And how important is kind of the collaboration during during the build or before the build. 00:56:35:22 - 00:56:58:19 Speaker 4 So one of the questions you had asked us was about how important is it for that team to be familiar with one another? And I contend that it you can have a successful project if this is the first time for builder architect, designer, engineer to work together, as long as everybody's expectations are set up front with with some form of a kickoff meeting. 00:56:58:19 - 00:57:20:06 Speaker 4 So the other part of the question is how important is setting up that team? But I contend it doesn't have to be a seasoned team that has done several projects together, because we've had some very successful projects where it was our first time with this architect or engineer. And some of those have led to a long history with that architect or engineer or designer. 00:57:20:06 - 00:57:22:11 Speaker 1 There has to be a first time for all the correct trips. Yeah. 00:57:22:12 - 00:57:46:01 Speaker 4 So it's it's how you go about starting that project and it's and we've developed a kickoff meeting, whether it's in person or on teams or zoom. It's setting expectations. What do you need to be successful? Well, there's an architect, an engineer or designer builder, etc.. So I don't think you have to have that. That history just makes it flow a little more smoothly. 00:57:46:02 - 00:58:11:07 Speaker 4 But it's the development of that team that we're trying to get across to, potential new clients because it's, it strays a little from conventional process where the old adage was, buy a lot, interview, hire an architect, get the plans done, send it out to builders for a bid, and professional builders will say, wow, this looks great. 00:58:11:09 - 00:58:33:08 Speaker 4 Where's the rest of your plans? What do you mean? That's all the architect gave me. Oh, why don't you come on and let's talk about what the rest of the planning process looks like. So that's that's our hook. To educate them on why they're not ready for a quote unquote bid. And just sharing with them how if you can get their budget from them at that stage. 00:58:33:09 - 00:58:56:18 Speaker 4 And look at the plans and I've done this at a, somewhere between 50 and 100 times in my career where I have plans in front of me and they've said they've got a $1.5 million budget, and I'm looking at plans that I know is 2 million plus. And I don't say this out loud originally, upfront, it's like, oh my gosh, did you guys not talk with this plan, design or architect about budget? 00:58:56:20 - 00:59:21:04 Speaker 4 How did you get to this phase? So, it's finding out how to break that news to them, learning more from them and educating them on why they're not ready for a bid. Because there's architectural plans. And it's not just square footage. You know, we could build a 6000 square foot box more affordably than we could build a 4000 square foot, one story. 00:59:21:05 - 01:00:03:22 Speaker 4 Well, if no one's sitting in the room on literally day one of architectural planning describing it, the architect knows that, but not a lot of them are asking those questions up front. And then you get to interior design, and there's $30 foot countertops and there's $150 foot countertops. If the designer doesn't have the context of where this project is tracking budget wise, how can he or she help them make appropriate design decisions so as much time as we have, or as little time as we have with these clients, if it's a initial phone call or an in-person meeting, we try to share anecdotally some of this evidence of why they need to put 01:00:03:22 - 01:00:25:15 Speaker 4 this team together. Sometimes, if we're lucky, it's before they've started anything. They were maybe referred to us by a past client and we're like, hey, here's how you do it. Whether you choose Usher's your builder or not. But this team together of these professionals, sometimes it's after they've already hired the architect and have developed plans well beyond their their budget goals. 01:00:25:17 - 01:00:47:13 Speaker 4 For some of those, it it hits home a little bit more quickly. But there's builder, structural engineer, interior designer, architect. One question we've started asking families is at the end of this project, who are you going to hold accountable for the cost? And invariably the answer is the builder. 01:00:47:15 - 01:00:48:19 Speaker 2 And stealing that. 01:00:48:21 - 01:00:50:07 Speaker 1 So right. There you go. You know. 01:00:50:07 - 01:01:12:14 Speaker 4 Who will you hold accountable for the cost of this home? So if it is builder, why not include the builder in every conversation? Architectural meetings, interior design meetings. Yeah, a professional is going to charge for their time, but that's okay. But you have someone, architect planned, designer, interior designer putting together their vision, and it's going to be incredible. 01:01:12:14 - 01:01:32:00 Speaker 4 We all work with some some awesome market partners. But someone needs to be sitting in that room saying, hey, does anybody care what this cost? Because I can give you some notes. Now and I can go back to XL and within a few days get you some real numbers, involve a builder in the process. Yeah, yeah. 01:01:32:02 - 01:01:41:03 Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm surprised you asked how important the team is. It's one of your walls of your house, isn't it? Down here? Yeah. So, it's crucial. 01:01:41:03 - 01:01:42:14 Speaker 1 It was a rhetorical question. 01:01:42:16 - 01:02:12:20 Speaker 2 Okay. I just wanted to make sure, it's it's crucial to the process because, just like Brian said. I mean, each one of those individuals has a specialty. You know, the architect is getting the programing together and the flow of the house and, and some of the architects, the artistic elements of, of the house structural engineer is, making sure it's not going to fall down. 01:02:12:22 - 01:02:38:07 Speaker 2 And then the interior designer is putting the, the lipstick in the earrings. On, on on the, on the house. And, and I think generally everyone understands that there is one part of the equation that I haven't mentioned yet that doesn't come into everyone's mind for some reason. And that's the builder. Like, there you go. 01:02:38:07 - 01:03:01:00 Speaker 2 And sit around the table and, and have these beautiful design discussions. But if we're not sitting there and understanding proper construct ability, you know, pricing obviously. Then then you're missing it. So, I think, there's no question I'm a, huge proponent of getting that team together early on. 01:03:01:00 - 01:03:22:12 Speaker 3 Absolutely. I mean, I got to agree, the communication has to be there. I mean, not necessarily as far as working with them previously, but getting on the same page early and saying, all right, you know, these are meetings that we're going to have and just, you know, trying to work as a team versus, you know, finger pointing or saying, hey, this is you know, we need you to do it this way. 01:03:22:14 - 01:03:47:08 Speaker 3 Like I said, sitting in on some of those meetings to to have them understand what the realistic expectations of those changes or any little things that you are going to do, what are the costs associated with that? What's that going to do to the project, the budget? And, and you know, the client, you know, being as part of that team, you know, as far as everyone because, a lot of the engineering and the architectural stuff is going to get done early on. 01:03:47:10 - 01:04:08:00 Speaker 3 So, you know, at that towards a later stage in the project, you're really dealing more with the client and the designer on the finishing of the product. And so, but yeah, I mean, communication I think is is key with that team. Right. Like having that team and more importantly than having longevity and saying, hey, we worked on several projects together. 01:04:08:00 - 01:04:12:06 Speaker 3 It's more important to be able to just, you know, have that communication and work together. Yeah. 01:04:12:06 - 01:04:38:09 Speaker 2 And and into Brian's point, understanding how each of those, team members works, like, what are the how do they prefer, communication or data exchange? Like, what do they how do they see it? Best how long does it take to do, to complete certain phases of a design, and making sure that everyone understands that completely. 01:04:38:11 - 01:04:45:20 Speaker 2 Because, whose client is it kind of comes to the comes company builder. 01:04:45:20 - 01:04:47:11 Speaker 4 Architect, interior designer. Yeah. 01:04:47:11 - 01:04:48:01 Speaker 1 Right. 01:04:48:03 - 01:05:02:15 Speaker 2 You know, and getting on that same page and having a collaborative group that we are servicing, the needs and wants of, of, of the client together as opposed to you do your thing and everybody's swimming in their own lane. Yeah. 01:05:02:17 - 01:05:24:23 Speaker 1 Well, yeah. And then you also need to know who needs to be, you know, participating in all the meetings. I, I think that the earlier meetings in the design process need to be everyone because the builder, the architect, the designer, they all need to be talking about kind of what the vision for the house is. And understanding how those things play to each other. 01:05:25:01 - 01:05:45:23 Speaker 1 You know, not all of us have to be at every single meeting, but there are certain meetings that all of us do need to be at, depending on what's being discussed. Yeah. I, I use this example, quite often. You know, the designer comes in and says, oh, let's do a, let's do wall mounted faucets there, or let's do a floor mounted filler. 01:05:46:01 - 01:05:46:13 Speaker 4 Wallpaper. 01:05:46:13 - 01:06:05:02 Speaker 1 Everywhere. Wallpaper. Yeah. Well, let's, let's throw in some feature. Right. But but they're only thinking about the cost of that one selection. They're only thinking about. It's a $800 wall mounted faucet versus a $400 deck mounted faucet. Right. They're not thinking about the extra plumbing cost. Is there going to be a stud pack or something in the way there? 01:06:05:02 - 01:06:25:04 Speaker 1 Or what's the wall finish or the the backsplash height? They're not thinking through all those details. They're only thinking about the pure one. One cost. Right. And so if we're there at that meeting and somebody brings that up, we can say, okay, well that's not just you hundred dollars, you know, that's that or that at us. So actually it's $5,000 and we're already bumping up against the top of the budget here. 01:06:25:04 - 01:06:45:07 Speaker 1 So how important is that to you. You know, is that a must have or is that a is that a nice to have. Can we revisit that once we see where the overall budget's landing. But if we're not at the table having that conversation, all that stuff gets thrown into the bid, sorry, into the plans. And then later on we're having to go back and back it out. 01:06:45:08 - 01:07:16:14 Speaker 2 So I, I, for better or for worse, attend every single design meeting. There's a representative from Southern Green at every single one. For two reasons. Number one is being involved in those discussions. Is, gathering information that may or may not have come out in the intro meeting or, you're hearing things and you're learning things and you're understanding where you can you can take take the, the, the project. 01:07:16:15 - 01:07:43:11 Speaker 2 And then being in the room to raise your hand, to not only, maybe call a time out for budget, runaway, but to offer real time, suggestions for rough construction materials or finishes or whatever that sort of guides that whole thing and keeps it a little more efficient. 01:07:43:13 - 01:08:03:02 Speaker 4 It can save families from literally going back to the drawing board after several months of planning, only to learn these features that may or may not even have been that important to the correct, are driving the cost way up because no one sat in the room to say, hey, by the way, is this important to you? Because that just added $20,000. 01:08:03:07 - 01:08:17:14 Speaker 2 I had a I had a couple of doors everywhere. Yeah. This is this is this is. No, last year I had a client that came in, and, it was a big project. I don't do a lot of bidding anymore, but it was a it was a bit. Yeah, I know, I think it was a it was a big project. 01:08:17:14 - 01:08:39:22 Speaker 2 And he came to us and he was like, I just don't understand how you're X amount higher than the next guy. And I said, well, I mean, I think one of our biggest cost drivers is the all glass entry stairwell. I mean, this thing was dope. Yeah. I mean, it was incredible. He says, what are you talking about? 01:08:40:00 - 01:08:41:13 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. 01:08:41:15 - 01:08:43:11 Speaker 4 He didn't know it was, I said. 01:08:43:13 - 01:09:10:17 Speaker 2 And pulled up the plans, showed them it had detail, and he had no idea that a glass entry stairwell stairway, because it was all open, is in the middle of his house. And I say, okay, what else is in this project that, you know, that may or may not? You don't, you know, that you don't want. That's so I mean that's a and of like that is no joke that happened. 01:09:10:18 - 01:09:17:06 Speaker 2 That's a, an extreme example. But I mean it it's it's for real. It's for real. 01:09:17:08 - 01:09:32:04 Speaker 1 Yeah. And and that could have been a situation where it's cheaper to go back and redraw it than it is to actually install that dang thing. Right. Like you bet, spend a thousand bucks with the architect to redraw it, or an extra 50 or 100 or whatever that cost. 01:09:32:06 - 01:09:35:22 Speaker 2 Execute is right about 65. 01:09:36:00 - 01:10:01:15 Speaker 1 Well, we're we're kind of close to running out of time here. So I just wanted to go around and see if anyone else has anything that they want to mention as to, you know, what are some other things that that you guys maybe took some notes on before recording, or have in your head, now that we've been discussing this on, you know, things that people should be thinking about that they might overlook, or things that people shouldn't. 01:10:01:21 - 01:10:23:21 Speaker 1 The we want people to know before they start the, the process. So I'll kick this off because I've got some written down here. And actually was on your notes too, so you can't steal it. So I see people getting into the trap of trying to plan this new house for every possible scenario that might come up in their life, right? 01:10:23:21 - 01:10:41:20 Speaker 1 They're trying to design a custom house for for today, for five years, for 15 years, for 20 years or 50 years from now. They're running it. And I see people doing this. They're running every scenario. Well, what if this happens? What if this happens? What if this happens? At some point you just got to say, I've I've got a budget to stick to. 01:10:41:22 - 01:10:49:03 Speaker 1 Realistically, this is a 5 to 10 year house. I'm not going to worry about what's going to happen 20 years from now. 01:10:49:05 - 01:10:57:10 Speaker 4 So isn't there, some sort of study on, on the average length of time people stay in a new home? Yeah. And I feel like it's less than ten years. 01:10:57:10 - 01:10:58:20 Speaker 1 Less than ten years? Yeah. It's like seven. 01:10:58:20 - 01:11:04:17 Speaker 4 I for the overwhelming majority of the families we build for this in the planning stage is their forever home. 01:11:04:17 - 01:11:05:02 Speaker 1 That's what they. 01:11:05:02 - 01:11:25:11 Speaker 4 Say and that's what they say. And so it's like, at what stage do you, address that? And just a hair. Are you sure? Or hey, here's the reality. Because if they're making choices in the planning phase, that can dramatically impact the budget, I think that's where you come back to that conversation and just say, hey, why are you doing this? 01:11:25:11 - 01:11:43:17 Speaker 4 Or why or why is this important to you? And if this is for something that's that's 20, 30 years from now, then maybe there's an alternative, maybe there's a way to prepare for that. We do elevator capability on almost every one of our projects in your town. Yeah. Yes. We're in our 40s or 50s or some families in their 60s. 01:11:43:17 - 01:12:02:06 Speaker 4 Like, you know, you may not need this right now. Going up and down the stairs is actually good for us. And in most instances, well, let's plan for it. You can put this thing in, you know, the day after you move in or year after you move in. So it's still diving deep into the details and finding out why they want to do certain things. 01:12:02:08 - 01:12:23:11 Speaker 4 We ask why all the time. One of one of the, prompt questions you had for us, it was around change order. And our change orders bad and a custom build process. And I say emphatically, no, we're building a custom home. In most instances, this floor plan has never been built. It's never been built on this actual property. 01:12:23:13 - 01:12:47:01 Speaker 4 So there's going to be things that need to be changed. There's going to be things where the client just says, oh, I thought this might be different. I want to I want to move things around, or I found this new thing that I want to add to my home. I believe it's our job as custom builders to accommodate that and take the same process we've done throughout the whole, you know, from the beginning, educate them on what it cost, how long it's going to take. 01:12:47:01 - 01:13:09:06 Speaker 4 Will this impact the timeline? Things like that. So all throughout this is constantly educating our clients, which is dramatically different from, you know, probably 90% of home purchases in the new home purchases in the volume production builder world, where it's like a lot floor plan price. 01:13:09:08 - 01:13:09:20 Speaker 2 Starts using. 01:13:09:20 - 01:13:17:15 Speaker 4 Date, standard features, closing date. Yeah, that we're constantly educating clients all the way through delivery and sometimes beyond. 01:13:17:17 - 01:13:33:13 Speaker 3 Yeah. As far as for change orders, I mean, they account for a big part of revenue at the end of the year, you know? So, yeah, they add time and they can kind of derail you a little bit as far as momentum on some of the projects that, you know, if you have a good momentum and all of a sudden they're like, wait, stop. 01:13:33:17 - 01:13:49:10 Speaker 3 You know, we don't like the way this looks. We understand it's going to cost us more time and money. You know, give it to us and you give it to them. And they say, you know, let's move forward with it. So, but yeah, there was a little bit of time, but for us, we, we, we like change orders. 01:13:49:10 - 01:14:07:07 Speaker 3 We want the customer to have, the final product that they want and that they kind of intend to, have in there. And as far as their vision. So, and, you know, on change orders, we as far as revenue wise, they, they, they generate a lot of revenue for us on some of these projects. 01:14:07:09 - 01:14:27:01 Speaker 1 So I'll say, I'll, I'll tag on to that and say, I think clients need to understand that too, that, your builder is going to make probably a higher margin on change orders. I know I charge a higher margin for change orders, but you have to understand that we're not doing that because we're greedy. We're doing that. 01:14:27:01 - 01:14:29:23 Speaker 1 Well, I just I'm not. Well, maybe your work. 01:14:30:02 - 01:14:31:22 Speaker 4 Speak for yourself. 01:14:32:00 - 01:14:32:05 Speaker 3 Gotta. 01:14:32:07 - 01:14:52:20 Speaker 1 Gotta pay for that. That new boat name change order somehow. No, we're we're charging that higher margin because we are now, lengthening the project. You know, we had in our schedule, we had x number of months for this project to be executed, which means we allotted X amount of our overhead toward the project. Now that's going longer. 01:14:52:20 - 01:15:12:19 Speaker 1 So we have to cover that. So, you know, our markup that we're putting on, that's not the same markup that we probably used at the beginning. So, you know, it's them understanding that you're going to pay more for it by doing a change order. But that's not necessarily a bad thing because you're it's a custom home. 01:15:12:19 - 01:15:20:01 Speaker 1 You should get what you want, but you should also expect your builder not to take it in the shorts to give you what you want. Yeah. 01:15:20:03 - 01:15:45:14 Speaker 2 Yeah. So so I would say, on change orders, we're actually. We we don't we don't even particularly like them, because they slow things down, but they do in a custom, project. They, they will come up. We're running a very, very low, change order percentage on most of our projects. And I think it's because of the thoroughness, and how we treat the, the pre-construction activities. 01:15:45:16 - 01:16:18:05 Speaker 2 But but but wrapping things up, you know, of this entire conversation, I think we've said a lot of things today that can be a little bit scary or like, overwhelming. I just hope that whomever is listening to to this episode goes to the very end, because sometimes podcasts, you kind of move on, listen to music, that, that building a custom home can be an outstanding experience and very rewarding and very fulfilling. 01:16:18:07 - 01:16:44:14 Speaker 2 And, and when you move in and you enjoy, the product, that's one thing. But, from the time that you start the foundation until that moment, it can be an enjoyable process the way it should be. A great point. And the way that you, secure that for yourself is do the proper, research on the builders. 01:16:44:14 - 01:17:13:10 Speaker 2 And when you're meeting them, walking a beautiful home is maybe one part of it. But you have no idea what the experience was like to get that beautiful home. So don't make your decisions based on Instagram photos and walking. One site in particular to really ask your builder, how do you accomplish a, of of a great experience during the build? 01:17:13:10 - 01:17:34:00 Speaker 2 How do you, control or keep your arms around all of these decisions you're telling me I'm about to have to make, and ask them to show you that? Because if they can show you that, then, you know, you are working, with somebody who can execute that and, and and create a wonderful experience. 01:17:34:00 - 01:17:56:14 Speaker 4 Potential new build clients or large remodel clients are first looking for builders capability. Can I see pictures or walk through a project that they've done that that meets my needs or my my level of finishes. And that's gosh, that's like less than a third of the the reason behind choosing a builder. 01:17:56:16 - 01:18:11:10 Speaker 1 All right. Well, I think that's all of our time for today. So, we could definitely kind of keep this going and do a whole nother hour on this, to be honest with you. And, I know I'm going to go back and listen to this with a notepad in my hand and, like, take some notes of all the things that you guys said so I can start to start using your ideas. 01:18:11:10 - 01:18:13:18 Speaker 4 What's ours is your, 01:18:13:20 - 01:18:28:13 Speaker 1 All right, so before we sign off, let's go around one more time, give us a company name, website or socials or however you prefer. People hit you up, and, and we'll also be sure and post that on, YouTube and on the podcast show notes. 01:18:28:15 - 01:18:36:23 Speaker 4 Cool. I'm, Brian Phillips with a Layer Homes Houston. We're at, Layer homes.com, and we build all over greater Houston. 01:18:37:01 - 01:18:37:22 Speaker 1 Awesome. 01:18:38:00 - 01:18:52:18 Speaker 3 I'm George Gomez with rest. Com custom builders. We build all over the city, our office offices out in Katy. So we're kind of, located west. But you can look us up, on our website at, rest comm.com LLC dot net. 01:18:52:20 - 01:19:14:08 Speaker 2 Yeah. Sam seidel, southern green builders, (832) 341-5998. If you actually use the phone. I'd love to talk to you. Website is, southern Green builders.com or build sgb.com and our our socials are all at southern Green builders. 01:19:14:10 - 01:19:16:15 Speaker 1 Dot is that yourself Southerners at drew so. 01:19:16:18 - 01:19:17:16 Speaker 2 That's myself. 01:19:17:18 - 01:19:19:11 Speaker 1 Oh well yeah it's brave. 01:19:19:12 - 01:19:22:06 Speaker 4 I don't even have that. 01:19:22:08 - 01:19:41:07 Speaker 1 All right well thanks guys. It's been a great conversation. I really appreciate all you guys being here today and appreciate the the camaraderie and all the work that you guys do for GBA as well. You know, you, like I said a while ago, like, you're the kind of guys that I want customers who don't choose us to work with. 01:19:41:10 - 01:19:41:17 Speaker 1 So I. 01:19:41:17 - 01:19:42:15 Speaker 2 Appreciate that. Thank you. 01:19:42:15 - 01:19:43:05 Speaker 4 Thank you. 01:19:43:07 - 01:19:50:09 Speaker 1 All right. And thanks to all of you for listening and watching today. We'll see you on the next episode. Take care. Sign up. Cool. 01:19:50:11 - 01:19:54:01 Speaker 4 Cool. That was fun, man. Yeah, that was good. I mean, I enjoyed that. You guys. 01:19:54:03 - 01:19:54:19 Speaker 2 Let's go get that. 01:19:54:21 - 01:19:55:12 Speaker 4 Take me a little bit. 01:19:55:12 - 01:19:56:14 Speaker 3 To get comfortable. 01:19:56:16 - 01:20:22:01 Speaker 1 You guys did great. If you found us helpful, enjoy listening. Please support us by liking and subscribing here on your podcast platform. And also join us on our YouTube channel. We want to continue to bring you high quality content and expert guests, and your support truly helps us to continue this journey. If you have any questions for me or my guests or any feedback for us, you can email us at podcast at your project shepherd.com. 01:20:22:03 - 01:20:22:19 Speaker 1 Thanks again.