00:00:05:19 - 00:00:29:27 Speaker 1 Hello friends. Welcome to the Your Project Shepherd podcast. I'm your host, Curtis Lawson, and we are here to teach that every successful construction project has four components demonstrated by the simple drawing of the house. The foundation is proper planning. The left wall is your team, the right walls, communication and the roof is proper execution. Have all four of these components in place and your project will succeed. 00:00:29:29 - 00:00:52:29 Speaker 1 We are here to help professionals and homeowners alike make the best decisions about designing, planning, and building custom homes. If you'd like more information about how Shepherd can help you with your project or business, visit us at your project shepherd.com. And now, here's today's episode. 00:00:53:01 - 00:01:10:18 Speaker 1 Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Your Project Shepherd podcast. I'm your host, as always, Curtis Lawson. And today we are joined, by Ken Nelson and Ken is the the group sales manager for Panasonic. Is that right? Is this the right title? The national national sales manager? Group sales manager? 00:01:10:20 - 00:01:35:10 Speaker 2 Technically, that's absolutely the title, but I work and obviously sales for builders and distribution. I work in contractor sales. I'm doing product development work, product management work. I'm doing, you know, when you get a certain amount of time and grade in some of these organizations, you really wear like, 50 hats because it's because you have time and. 00:01:35:10 - 00:01:37:06 Speaker 2 Great. Right? Right. So what we do. 00:01:37:09 - 00:01:58:23 Speaker 1 So I think most people are aware that Panasonic makes all kinds of products like consumer electronics and appliances and, and overseas even they do tons of things that I never even realized that Panasonic did. I was in Japan last year, touring the headquarters and some other facilities, and I was blown away by, like, all the products that Panasonic makes. 00:01:58:25 - 00:02:19:16 Speaker 2 It's it's pretty remarkable. I mean, as well, I when I was back there, we would go to these giant stores that we, you know, like giant Walmart stores and bigger, only bigger, much bigger. And you would see like home health care products, everything from the, the, the massage chairs to massage leggings to massage socks and then go two more aisles down. 00:02:19:16 - 00:02:38:22 Speaker 2 And there would be our ventilation products, three more aisles down. There would be air conditioning products, both from a, installed standpoint where you would install them. And then some of them, you were just plug in, right? You were just, amazing how many products we have. And quite frankly, the consumer portion of the Panasonic world has really contracted. 00:02:38:25 - 00:03:01:29 Speaker 2 We're doing more and more like if you're driving down the road, I think you have a truck. When you look at that multi-function, the screen on that truck, we have a pretty good idea that that's a Panasonic screen. If you look behind it, I'll say made by Panasonic. So it's just remarkable. All the things Panasonic looks at and has, has has a, you know, dog in the fight, so to speak. 00:03:02:02 - 00:03:16:08 Speaker 1 But in the, in the building world though, as a builder, I mostly deal with ventilation fans. And more recently RVs and things like that. So as far as the the U.S. market for building products, what do you guys focus on? 00:03:16:14 - 00:03:37:29 Speaker 2 So so we've been in the US with ventilation products, exhaust fans, baths fans, for the last 20, 25 years. We started out with and it's very interesting how we came about because we had a very quiet fan, but it was more money and, you know, builders and fan manufacturers competitive and manufacturers said, oh my God, you will never sell that. 00:03:37:29 - 00:04:05:07 Speaker 2 That's just too expensive and you'll never sell it. And we we kind of targeted that, you know, really expensive market luxury house where they didn't want to hear a fan run. And, and the reality was that, market it really picked up these these really super efficient and super quiet fans was the low income market because they could let that fan run 24 over seven and it would solve a ton of their moisture problem. 00:04:05:10 - 00:04:24:04 Speaker 2 Right. And a low income property where you have a small footprint but a potentially large population. Moisture is a big problem, both for the occupant and for the facility. And they could satisfy, both with these really nice exhaust fans. And boy, the market just exploded from there. 00:04:24:07 - 00:04:28:12 Speaker 1 But personally, your group just focuses on the ventilation stuff, right? 00:04:28:14 - 00:04:48:29 Speaker 2 My group is specific to ventilation. Yes, we do as you said. As you said, exhaust fans. I have supply fans. I have inline fans, I have dryer booster fans, I have the eaves and the eaves. It's kind of a, eaves and RV's have been around for a long time, but they are quickly gaining traction here in the US. 00:04:48:29 - 00:05:12:05 Speaker 2 And and the reason being is because we find that for an efficient or an energy efficient or even a safe house, the house has to have a tight envelope, right? The they can't have these air leaks to the outside. And what, what an ear RV will give you is it'll give you both exhaust and supply ventilation at a predictable and and and, how do we say it? 00:05:12:05 - 00:05:28:28 Speaker 2 You know, it's predictable and uneventful, right? I don't want to have to wonder if I'm going to have the wind blow to get air in, or if I have to have a temperature change because air moves with temperature change, right? As the temperature goes up, that pressure expands and pushes air out, and then air is drawn in on a cooler space. 00:05:29:01 - 00:05:38:24 Speaker 2 So I don't want to have any of those random things occur. I don't want to have to open my windows, because in some places you just can't open your windows or you don't want to open your window, like. 00:05:38:24 - 00:05:39:27 Speaker 1 Here in Houston. 00:05:40:00 - 00:05:42:11 Speaker 2 Well, you know, like one. 00:05:42:11 - 00:05:43:11 Speaker 1 Month out of the year. 00:05:43:13 - 00:05:52:08 Speaker 2 In some places, right? So we want predictable and uneventful ventilation. And I can do that very easily and very affordably with an ERV. 00:05:52:10 - 00:05:59:12 Speaker 1 Yeah. And as you said, those have been around for 30, 40 years, probably the 80s probably. I think they they started somewhere in there. 00:05:59:13 - 00:06:22:27 Speaker 2 Started in Canada with. Yeah. What they call HHR RV's. And actually that's an interesting, thing to talk about HVS versus E RVs, an RV heat recovery ventilator. And in the codes when you look at your codes, almost all the codes you will refer to an H RV, capital H, capital R, capital V, small s RV system, heat recovery, ventilation system. 00:06:22:29 - 00:06:48:08 Speaker 2 So in the market though there's RVs which is a heat recovery ventilator. And they have E RVs. Both of these are heat recovery ventilation systems. Hrb has a non permeable piece of material between the two airstream so moisture won't pass through. Therefore I have to have a drain line. So if you have temperatures you know, what we're looking for is how moisture moves through that medium of the, of the plate. 00:06:48:11 - 00:07:06:09 Speaker 2 And in the nature of you, it doesn't it just falls out as condensation. There's a strong potential for what we call a phase change, where that humidity that's in the Airstream will get cool and condensate or start to drip. Right. So in an H RV, you'll have a drain installed in there, with an RV and IRBs. 00:07:06:11 - 00:07:11:18 Speaker 2 Technically they're called install peak recovery ventilation. People don't really spell out very well. 00:07:11:19 - 00:07:12:18 Speaker 1 It's a energy. 00:07:12:21 - 00:07:33:09 Speaker 2 They say energy recovery ventilation or ERV for sure. It does the exact same thing. It's a very similar size and shape for the core, but the material between the airstreams are different. So the material is it's a paper, but it allows moisture. And, at the molecular level to move between the Airstream and have you think about how moisture moves. 00:07:33:09 - 00:07:59:12 Speaker 2 It moves from, again, high pressure to low. So if I have a heated moisture airstream on one side and a cooler airstream on the other, I'm going to have more grains of moisture in that heated airstream, and it's going to drive it across into the cooler airstream so that moisture is continuously balanced. And especially in Houston, the beauty of the RV is it literally rejects excessive moisture back out of the house. 00:07:59:14 - 00:08:20:09 Speaker 2 So it's going to make your dehumidifier work less, which your dehumidifiers an expensive little project because that's just another air conditioner. In fact, in some worlds we call that a a bad air conditioner because it doesn't really make it cold. All it does is get down to that dew point to create that that phase change into a bucket in the device. 00:08:20:11 - 00:08:21:10 Speaker 1 Just dries the air. 00:08:21:14 - 00:08:36:27 Speaker 2 Just dries the air. Right. And that's not fresh air, by the way. So if it's, you know, internal to the room, if it's just, you know, recirculating, it's not fresh air, it's moisture is pulled out of it. With the ERV, we're constantly bringing fresh air in and taking the exhaust air out. 00:08:37:00 - 00:08:57:09 Speaker 1 Actually, this was something that I had slated for later in the discussion, but we'll go ahead and get into into this now since we're on the RVs. But why? Why is an RV an important part of a IK strategy and a ventilation strategy for houses that are being built today? And why should you use an RV instead of just a fresh air ventilator? 00:08:57:11 - 00:09:19:07 Speaker 2 Well, so and there are certain climates that can use a fresh air ventilator. But remember air pressure, if I push, just push air in, I'm going to push that air into the interstitial spaces as it finds its cracks and crevices. Even the tightest house. We don't build submarine houses, right? Even passive house, I think is 0.6 air just per hour. 00:09:19:07 - 00:09:40:04 Speaker 2 Right. So every house has a certain degree of, where air will move through the walls or spaces or wherever there's cracks and crevices are with a supplier. What we're going to do is we're going to pressurize that house and drive that air from the inside of the house into the interstitial spaces, and then out with an exhaust fan. 00:09:40:04 - 00:10:03:21 Speaker 2 If we run just an exhaust only, we're going to draw the air from inside the house and then draw that outside air in all of those, neither of those are any problem at all. As long as your air temperatures the same. The challenge we have. And in cold climates where I'm drawing cold air in from the outside with an exhaust only, I draw cold air and that air warms up and my humidity drops out. 00:10:03:21 - 00:10:26:08 Speaker 2 Right. Because warm air is less humid from cold air. But in this climate, if I draw that air and if I have 100 degrees at 70% or 80% humidity, and I cool that air to 70 degrees, now I'm at 100%. So somewhere between the outside of the house, the inside of that wall, and the inside living space, that moisture is going to turn to rain. 00:10:26:11 - 00:10:39:17 Speaker 2 That's one of the reasons if you ever go to like Florida and you go into these old hotels with carpeting and you walk and you smell all that musty smell. Yeah, right. That's people opening the door. All that moist air is rushing in and hitting the air conditioning, and it falls to the floor. Right? 00:10:39:23 - 00:10:44:18 Speaker 1 Yeah. You smell that a lot at the at the beach, the old beach hotels here and here in Texas. Exactly. 00:10:44:18 - 00:11:08:11 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. So that's just air conditioning. I know we love our air conditioning. But when water, when that warm, humid air comes in, it hits that air conditioning, it falls to the ground and it becomes moldy and mildewy. And you can smell that. So with an RV or an RV. But we like eaves because they're allowing that moisture to either be rejected or, or used to make your house about normal. 00:11:08:11 - 00:11:33:00 Speaker 2 Right. We're searching for that 50% humidity level is bringing both air in and air out at the same time. So I'm not driving it through the walls, nor am I dry, you know, drawing it through the walls. And I'm giving it a predictable path. So it's just from a structural standpoint, it's far better because I don't have to wonder, where the air is coming from, I don't, and it's being filtered before it comes in. 00:11:33:08 - 00:11:55:16 Speaker 2 So if it's a high pollen day, I'm bringing that or in, but I'm filtering it first. If, I have a lot of air inside the house that's bad or musty, I'm constantly diluting that by sending it out and replacing that with fresh air. So now anything that, you know, as humans, anything that we out gas into that house and by the way, every human is unique. 00:11:55:20 - 00:12:18:21 Speaker 2 You might think that your family's all very consistent, but you might have one child with with allergies and another child have a different allergy, and grandma and grandpa might have an allergy or something along those lines, but they're all unique and they all have unique experiences, and they all bring home unique things. And now you shove all that into a space and let it all mix, and now you've got the potential for everybody to be challenged. 00:12:18:21 - 00:12:35:21 Speaker 2 Right? That was kind of the rub with with Covid. When Covid came in, you know, when the kids would bring Covid home, well, you're in that house. If it's a super tight house with no ventilation, you know, it's just not a good it's not a good strategy to manager. You're you're healthy health challenges. 00:12:35:21 - 00:12:58:12 Speaker 1 Yeah. So you and I were at a Houston Builders Association event yesterday. We had Gord Cook from Construction Instruction who was presenting, and it was a great discussion. We got to a point toward the end, and we're talking about green building in general, and I'm gonna kind of tie this into the whole IQ discussion here. But there started to be a little pushback from the room because we started talking about, hey, it's part of an IQ strategy. 00:12:58:15 - 00:13:13:20 Speaker 1 Maybe you should eliminate a gas range from the house. And then it was like, you know, you can't take our gas range away. You know, there was this whole thing, I don't know, a year or two ago where somebody came on TV and said, you know, Joe Biden or the government or whoever is going to take your gas range away. 00:13:13:20 - 00:13:34:16 Speaker 1 We want all electric stoves and every house in the US by whatever year became this whole thing. Right. So yesterday when this came up, it was like, no, you can't take our gas range away. But really at the end of the day, like we should be looking at, what can we do, you know, given the parameters that we have to build houses with now, like we have to build a tight house. 00:13:34:16 - 00:13:54:26 Speaker 1 It's in the code given that requirement, why why wouldn't we be doing everything that we can do to make that indoor air quality the best it can be for the occupants, right. And and this is kind of a tangent and toner. And I actually touched on this a few weeks ago on our Christmas episode, we talked about, the electrification of houses. 00:13:54:28 - 00:14:15:08 Speaker 1 But we talked about how, why wouldn't you want to do an induction range in a new house instead of a gas range? I mean, it, it heats more evenly. It, it's it's it's safer to the to the touch. It's it's a better product. It doesn't have that blue flame. Right. You know, as it relates to IQ, one of the things that Gord said. 00:14:15:08 - 00:14:27:21 Speaker 1 And so the whole reason I mentioned that one of the things that Gord said was, that I didn't realize was that the gas, the, the CO2 produced or the gas range is one of the biggest triggers for children with asthma. 00:14:27:23 - 00:14:30:24 Speaker 2 Oh, it's a huge trigger. And it's it's not just children, it's it's. 00:14:30:24 - 00:14:31:14 Speaker 1 People with asthma. 00:14:31:18 - 00:14:54:05 Speaker 2 People with asthma. Right. And there's an old story about IQ versus moisture management, right. With moisture management, if you fail at moisture management, I can kill a world class athlete in 90 days, right? I introduced mold mildew into the house. He has he has allergies. And and it gets into the lungs. Get pneumonia 90 days. They can win the Olympics one day, 90 days later. 00:14:54:08 - 00:15:16:20 Speaker 2 Gone. Yeah, right. With gas ranges, with any combustible products inside the house. And I, you know, of course, I'm a little more of a zealot when it comes to IQ in the house. And I've seen candles and all this stuff, but anything that is combustion is actually producing what they call PM 2.5 particulates. Right? These tiny little particulates that you breathe into your lungs. 00:15:16:22 - 00:15:36:29 Speaker 2 Right. And these are so tiny that they will pass through your lungs, you know, your lungs. The human body is designed to evolve and and grow old. I mean, we have a lot of internal things that keep us alive and and solve a lot of problems for us. But when you get that 2.5 particulate inside your lungs, it passes to your bloodstream. 00:15:37:02 - 00:16:07:28 Speaker 2 And now and I say so moisture will kill you. And 90 days PM 2.5 or maybe take 20 years because what happens is that goes through your bloodstream, which goes through your blood marrow, which becomes potentially a leukemia issue. You know, anything that gets into that over the course of time is problematic. And whether you're, you know, smelling diesel fumes all day long or whatever, anything that has that combustion capability, firefighters have this huge problem with lung cancer. 00:16:08:03 - 00:16:39:14 Speaker 2 And we see, all sorts of people in that environment having challenges. And you're seeing standard safety protocols go into effect that is going to change the way that their future holds for them, because it's it's just our bodies are our bodies. And there are certain things that we can't stop. And and the thing about PM 2.5, whether it's from smoke or combustion items or whatever, every creature on Earth that has a lung can be affected or destroyed with smoke and that kind of thing. 00:16:39:14 - 00:16:57:17 Speaker 2 Right? That smoke has cyanide in it. And there's all sorts of components that will go in that goes into the lung and it'll paralyze the long, which is what, you know, when you get a smoker's high, that's your lungs being paralyzed. You're a little bit hypoxic where you can't breathe, you know? And yet all of a sudden you get this rush of dopamine to try to cover that up. 00:16:57:19 - 00:17:17:27 Speaker 2 And, and that's what that's all about, is your lungs are paralyzed. You're not getting oxygen flow into your blood. It's it's a huge problem. So long story short, which is way past. This is no longer a long story short, but we have children with undeveloped lungs. We have seniors with overdeveloped lungs or COPD from previous life experiences. 00:17:18:00 - 00:17:34:13 Speaker 2 All of those are easily affected with combustion products that are occurring inside the house. And I gotta be honest with you, when I was a kid, we had a trash burner. We had a fireplace. We had the whole package. Right. But not anymore. I mean, it's just it just doesn't work for us. 00:17:34:14 - 00:17:39:18 Speaker 1 Long back then, the houses just weren't built. Oh my gosh, the envelope wasn't like it is now. 00:17:39:21 - 00:17:44:03 Speaker 2 I could either look through the window or the crack on the side with a frame hit or, you know. 00:17:44:06 - 00:18:08:06 Speaker 1 So I, I think when I think the homeowners don't think about IQ hardly at all, unless they have somebody in the house who has either, asthma or a chemical sensitivity or something like that. And I think builders don't really think about it too much either, unless it's like something that's a, that's a code issue or something that's, you know, with the people are making them do or the code is making them do. 00:18:08:07 - 00:18:09:10 Speaker 1 Right. 00:18:09:13 - 00:18:28:18 Speaker 2 But we all kind of, you know, reflex a little bit when someone tells us we have to do something. Yeah. But from a builder's perspective, I, I don't worry so much about and I appreciate that as a builder you have to adhere to the code. And that's in some cases it costs more. In some cases it costs less because it just becomes the cost of doing business right. 00:18:28:21 - 00:18:46:02 Speaker 2 But the more critical component of it is if you allow this product that you build to fail. I mean, how long are you on that speed dial for the homeowner? So when there's moisture coming down the windows, or if they have, you know, wet spots on their paint where their paint's bubbling because someone didn't do a good job of managing moisture load. 00:18:46:04 - 00:19:02:29 Speaker 2 And we see this with the exhaust fans that the the biggest challenge I have with exhaust fans is when was the last time your realtor toured people through your house and said, oh, by the way, see that exhaust fan that's running right now and that's keeping this house clear of moisture and mildew, but you can't hear it because it's invisible typically. 00:19:02:29 - 00:19:29:10 Speaker 2 And I'm, you know, I probably not the nicest guy in the world, but when I see these really crappy fans that make it so much noise and I walk into an open house, I turn them on for 60 minutes because you know what? I we have to sell our homeowner on the value of our products. Right. And you but your product is the entire house as a builder, your products entire house you want to go through and highlight the value that you bring to that thing. 00:19:29:17 - 00:19:50:08 Speaker 2 And for me, you know, as a as a long term salesperson, if I come to you and I bring you an item that cost $5 and I give you only $2 worth of value, you throw me off the job. But if I come to you with an item that cost $5, but you can get $50 and value for that, I'm your new best friend, right? 00:19:50:08 - 00:20:13:26 Speaker 2 Right. And that's that's what ventilation. That's one of the missing components of the ventilation in the house, is that the builders don't understand that this is a value added. And you do, of course. And I guarantee you when you're talking to customers through your house or you're talking about your house, you're talking about smart ventilation. Oh, yeah. Because the guy down the road is not providing smart ventilation. 00:20:13:26 - 00:20:19:06 Speaker 2 He may not be he may not want to talk about ventilation at all because he's simply doing a code required. 00:20:19:10 - 00:20:20:08 Speaker 1 Code minimum. Yeah. 00:20:20:11 - 00:20:27:04 Speaker 2 Code minimum, which means literally the code inspector looks up there and sees a fan in the hall and says, oh, well done. Yeah, right. 00:20:27:05 - 00:20:32:02 Speaker 1 Let's have to work. It's probably, hey, I got three bids on my AC system and that was cheapest bid I got. And it's a least. 00:20:32:02 - 00:20:55:11 Speaker 2 Expensive 20 year old kid and they're installing it. He's got a great big hammer and a tiny little roll of tape and all. Good. So so for us at Panasonic, our goal is to help you help you help your contractors, help our building science professionals come out and make sure that everybody understands the value that we bring with correct and smart ventilation. 00:20:55:11 - 00:21:15:10 Speaker 2 Right. It's just super critical because the house fails. You own that. Yeah. I mean, you know, the occupant fails and it fails as a result of the house and you don't see it as much here in, in this market. But in the Puget Sound market where I live, we have whole companies that make a living doing building forensics. 00:21:15:13 - 00:21:34:16 Speaker 2 And simply all they do is they go out and they, they have engineers and lawyers. The engineers go out and say, who installed that so poorly? And they chased that all the way down through the contractor, the builder, the contractor, the the engineer that wrote it up and the architect that drew it up. And they want everybody to take some responsibility for that. 00:21:34:19 - 00:21:39:01 Speaker 2 And you don't see that here yet, but you wait. You're going to start seeing more and more. 00:21:39:02 - 00:21:59:03 Speaker 1 It's getting bigger and bigger here. I mean, toner, who you know, who's on my show all the time, that's a cornerstone of his business, is he gets hired either by builders to help defend against that or by the homeowners who who have those claims. In fact, I was on one of his, projects two days ago helping him do an inspection for that exact same thing. 00:21:59:05 - 00:22:06:11 Speaker 1 It was a semi-custom, house that was built a few years ago, and they're having mold issues. So guess what? Here we are. 00:22:06:13 - 00:22:23:07 Speaker 2 So we saw that a long time ago in the 70s. And 80s with condominiums, right? I mean, when's the last time, you know, condominiums have just come back into vogue, if you will. They went from condominiums to townhouses. But the HOA is of a condominium. Could be so aggressive. Right. You put 100 people in there paying $100 a month. 00:22:23:07 - 00:22:36:12 Speaker 2 They have a cash revenue. They can go out, hire lawyers, and any little issue, they want somebody else to pay for it. So they would go after that. And that was a big challenge with condominiums. And it slowed that process down for a long time. 00:22:36:15 - 00:22:52:09 Speaker 1 So it's going to get back into into I because I wanted to kind of bring in the main product that we're here to talk about today, which is widget, but kind of the last thing on IQ that I wanted to touch on is there's a lot of other sources, I think, that people don't consider that are affecting their indoor air quality. 00:22:52:09 - 00:23:11:29 Speaker 1 You know, you mentioned occupants, how every person is kind of bringing something different into the house on, on a daily basis. Some of the overlooked things in your house that affect your air quality or even the products that are installed, or, the furniture that you bring in your carpet, there's off gassing and things like that. Right? There's your your pets. 00:23:12:02 - 00:23:24:02 Speaker 1 There's the pet dander, the pet, the odors and all the things that go on with that. The the dog, the doggie door that's opening and closing. What are some other, you know, air quality effectors that you can think of? 00:23:24:10 - 00:23:45:13 Speaker 2 I'll give you two of them. One of them is absolutely occupant created and the other one is part of the structure. But I was just at an engineering firm today, and we were talking about, I have rental units and I one of the caveats is I don't allow I don't allow fish tanks or cats. Right. You people, they're going like fish tanks. 00:23:45:16 - 00:24:04:10 Speaker 2 You mean fish tanks? Fish tanks are nothing but water bubblers, right? They have. They just bubble water moisture into your air all the time. Yeah. And and all that's doing is looking for a cold surface to condensation. Right. We we talk about phase change. Any moisture load that gets put into the air diffuses. And all it does is it moves from high pressure to low. 00:24:04:10 - 00:24:22:29 Speaker 2 So it's going to look for a low pressure system, which is a temperature change where it can actually pull that moisture. And so literally I've had people call me up complaining, hey, I've got your fan running continuously, but my fish tank is constantly running out of water. I'm like, hey, you know, that fish tank was going to run out of water without the fan? 00:24:22:29 - 00:24:43:27 Speaker 2 The fan is just moving that pathway, a predictable pathway, that water out of the house rather than having it find a surface area, the other item and they catch catch just they come with cat boxes and, you know, of course, having said that, I have a big dog, there's hair everywhere. And, you know, as humans, we we give up some things. 00:24:43:27 - 00:25:04:09 Speaker 2 But on the other hand, my fans run 24 seven. I'm good with that. And I vacuum my fan grille. People call me up and say, well, how come you don't have filters on your exhaust fans? Well, anything that gets aerosolized, I want it out. So when I when that grill assembly is dirty, I know that that stuff I'm not dusting, breathing or kicking around on the floor. 00:25:04:09 - 00:25:30:11 Speaker 2 Right. So I vacuum that up and get it out. So the other item I wanted to mention would be attached garages. Right. Attached garages at my garage. I've got herbicides, pesticides, fertilizers, oil, gas you know all these things that I store in my garage and my garage is unheated. So I'm in a cold climate, my house is heated but I open that door, the air comes in, all that garage stuff wafts into the house. 00:25:30:11 - 00:25:38:18 Speaker 2 Yep. Right. So if I were sensitive to any of those particulars, particulate, it would create a problem and it could create a problem. 00:25:38:18 - 00:25:40:10 Speaker 1 And if you park a car in the garage and you. 00:25:40:17 - 00:25:40:27 Speaker 2 Can't. 00:25:41:02 - 00:25:43:12 Speaker 1 Maybe you go out there and start the car a little warm up in the winter, you. 00:25:43:12 - 00:25:49:23 Speaker 2 Know. And how about people who back their car in, oh, my God, don't pack your car into the garage, for heaven's sakes. 00:25:49:23 - 00:25:51:15 Speaker 1 Tailpipe facing the laundry rails. 00:25:51:15 - 00:26:03:18 Speaker 2 Right facing the laundry room. It's just, And I had a neighbor who did that all the time, and I just. I must have told her 50 times. Don't back the car in there. That's just bad mojo. 00:26:03:20 - 00:26:05:28 Speaker 1 You're the. You're the crazy. Air quality guy. 00:26:06:03 - 00:26:20:23 Speaker 2 Yeah, well, you know, but how many people would see that? How many people see that? And then they say, oh, you know, then I just open the door and go in the house and that, you know, I'm like, all that stuff just enters the house, right? And and if you have no ventilation system, it enters, but it doesn't go anywhere. 00:26:20:23 - 00:26:45:16 Speaker 2 Right. So now you're you're living in that for the next couple of hours while it either stays buoyant or becomes ballistic and falls to the floor. So so those are the two things. And, and and then we're going to jump to switch it, which I really look forward to talking about. But one of the challenges with exhaust fans, and this is another thing that we talk about a lot, is an exhaust fan has no value if it doesn't get turned on. 00:26:45:19 - 00:26:58:17 Speaker 2 Right. So I had three girls, my girls, we go into the bathroom and shower and they would if the fan was on when they went in there, it'd be on when they left. But if it wasn't on it wouldn't be on when they left. 00:26:58:18 - 00:27:01:16 Speaker 1 I fight this battle that that there's battle every single day. 00:27:01:16 - 00:27:12:24 Speaker 2 Yeah. So, so literally they they're good to go with 20 minutes with the blow dryer clear in that mirror rather than turn an exhaust fan on because they just don't they don't know, even though I tell them every stinking day. 00:27:12:24 - 00:27:13:13 Speaker 1 Yeah, he's a. 00:27:13:13 - 00:27:41:16 Speaker 2 Fan, but, but anyway, so so we're constantly trying to figure out ways to help our occupants, our homeowners, with automated triggers. Right. So from a fan perspective, we literally put automated triggers in the fans. And, and our low income property managers will almost always install an automated trigger fan because as a renter or an occupant, you know, again, you're not you're not even looking at the fan, right? 00:27:41:16 - 00:27:59:21 Speaker 2 So they want that fan to work regardless. And that's where widget comes into play because it's it's not just moisture loads that we're trying to to manage. Right. It's not just and there's two ways to trigger a fan currently. And actually the most popular way is with a motion sensor. Right. So you walk in, the fan turns on. 00:27:59:23 - 00:28:24:04 Speaker 2 However, I will tell you that there is no basis in science that says moisture will resolve a moisture bloom. You know, that's relative to a moisture bloom, right? Right. And people don't fully understand where moisture comes from in the house. So literally, obviously, if you boil water, you boil potatoes or pasta, whatever, you know, that there's water being blossomed into the house. 00:28:24:07 - 00:28:43:13 Speaker 2 But you know what? You bake a cake, you're taking a liquid, converting it, taking the moisture out and converting it to a solid. Right? Yeah. Your face changing the moisture out into a vapor, which converts to a self making coffee. Making coffee. One of my favorite stories is people ask me, how fast does moisture move from one into your house to the other? 00:28:43:16 - 00:28:45:28 Speaker 1 Okay, so can you smell the coffee brewing in the morning? 00:28:45:28 - 00:29:02:10 Speaker 2 How long does it take the smell of coffee to go from one end of your house to the other? Because that coffee smell is on a vapor trail coming across the house. And where's it going? It's going to a place of low pressure, which is typically a cold surface where it's be wicking that condensation off that moisture out. 00:29:02:10 - 00:29:05:10 Speaker 2 I should say, or exhaust fan or whatever it might be, or it's. 00:29:05:10 - 00:29:07:21 Speaker 1 Following the path of the return air or whatever. 00:29:07:21 - 00:29:25:15 Speaker 2 Exactly. It's in an air stream moving though. Yeah, along the short of it. So, so a fan has no value if it doesn't get turned on. So we create automatic triggers, moisture, scent or motion sensors. I'm good with moisture motion sensor because it gets the job done. And it was the lowest cost. But the longest time is extremely low cost. 00:29:25:15 - 00:29:51:05 Speaker 2 Right. Is the passive infrared sensor that just unfortunately, it can be sensitive enough where even the dog going by or I walk by in a hallway outside of a bathroom and that fan will trigger on and I can get some nuisance triggers with that. So now we've added condensation controls, and what that does is it takes the ambient temperature, it takes a humidity sensor humidity, and looks at the two and looks at how it approaches dew point. 00:29:51:09 - 00:30:11:00 Speaker 2 Because we don't care about humidity. I don't want to say we don't care about humidity, but from an manufacturers standpoint, some bathrooms, they like to be really humid. Some of them want to be really dry. But what I don't want is I don't want phase change on the wall. I don't want water on the surface. So I set my fans at 80% humidity. 00:30:11:00 - 00:30:30:02 Speaker 2 So it has to get pretty wet in there before the fan triggers on, I say pretty wet. But you know, moisture goes up so that fan triggers pretty fast when I'm taking a shower or whatever. So it triggers pretty fast. So I love the condensation sensors. I'll tell you there's two approaches to the condensation sensor. We like them in the fan integrated into the fan. 00:30:30:04 - 00:30:52:29 Speaker 2 But you can also put condensation sensors on a wall switch. Right. We have we have those as well. And I'll tell you that there's two caveats to that. If I put that on an interior wall right on an interior wall, that condensation switch is going to be at 70 degrees or whatever, and it's going to trigger slow because it's going to take a minute for that moisture load to go from the ceiling and draw down. 00:30:52:29 - 00:31:11:23 Speaker 2 Yep. If I put it on an exterior wall and it's cold out, that wall is going to trigger really fast because now it's got a bigger delta. If I put it on an exterior wall and it's really warm outside, it's going to go even slower because now that condensation doesn't measure, so it measures at that surface temperature, right? 00:31:11:23 - 00:31:26:15 Speaker 2 It's not right there in the ceiling where all that moisture load is going. It takes a minute for the moisture to get there. But I do like condensation sensors because they come on when there's moisture. And that's what it's all about, is starting with that process to remove that moisture from the space. 00:31:26:21 - 00:31:52:12 Speaker 1 So switch it is, is basically creating another kind of trigger option, right? Yep. For a number of things. And not not just be temperature and humidity but you can. So I actually we should probably back up and just talk about kind of what switch it is to start with for people listening or watching. So switch it looks like kind of like a normal light switch or receptacle other than it's got an insert in the middle. 00:31:52:12 - 00:31:56:23 Speaker 1 And you can swap these inserts out any number of different devices. 00:31:56:23 - 00:32:20:20 Speaker 2 Right, right. So it, it it it depends on what what you as a builder, you as the occupant or homeowner want to have triggered. So I have carbon dioxide triggers, eye triggers I have motion triggers I have temperature, humidity. I have modules without triggers for having sex that I can just put on my Wi-Fi. It and I have one of my favorite ones that's hardly ever used is the power outlet. 00:32:20:23 - 00:32:41:03 Speaker 2 So in multifamily especially, I can take that power outlet and it's got just two large capacitors built into it, as well as the Wi-Fi capability. And I put that in the receptacle near the exit door on the inside of the house. Now you're code required to have lighting, emergency lighting on the quarter, but you gotta find the door first, right? 00:32:41:03 - 00:32:52:02 Speaker 2 So I can put that power goes out or for who cares what reason? It gives you light for 30 to 60 minutes right at the exit door. That's just that's just one thing that switch it can do for us. 00:32:52:05 - 00:32:54:17 Speaker 1 There's a there's like a camera module now too, right? 00:32:54:20 - 00:33:22:08 Speaker 2 There's a camera module. So I literally in my shop where I have my RV in my truck, I can put a camera module in there. I have, and I can just check that at any time, and I could set that up. It also has a motion sensor integrated into it where if motion occurs in my shop, I can get an, basically a text or a nudge on my switch app on my switch it app to tell me that there's a motion detector, my shop, and I can raise the question, well, why? 00:33:22:08 - 00:33:23:00 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:33:23:03 - 00:33:38:06 Speaker 1 And that could be pretty again, pretty inconspicuous too, because again, it's like a normal light switch and it just has this little or receptacle. So you can have those on the wall on the down or whatever and any, and you can have that camera notify you something's going on, which is, which is pretty cool. 00:33:38:06 - 00:33:57:01 Speaker 2 We do a lot of that with multifamily, and I shouldn't say a lot. We've done some with multifamily where they'll put that camera in the wall, switch, facing the front door. So when the unit is empty, that camera will let them know when either service people have come in or if somebody inappropriate has come in to that, that space. 00:33:57:03 - 00:34:20:01 Speaker 2 And, and you've got a record and a sensor that's telling you that something is either amiss or is is correct. And then when you rent the space, you pull that module out and you can put something else in there for who knows what reason. Yeah. But, a lot of we've had a lot of good response with the carbon dioxide because now I can put, a receptacle in a bedroom and a kid's bedroom, and I have a carbon dioxide sensor on there. 00:34:20:08 - 00:34:40:02 Speaker 2 The carbon dioxide sensor, when it triggers, it reaches a certain value. It will trigger. It can communicate with the exhaust fan or the ERV and put the urban boost or the exhaust fan and exhaust fan mode it well. And then now I can get air change into that bedroom, right? But again, it has no value. The fan or the air has no value. 00:34:40:02 - 00:34:57:29 Speaker 2 It doesn't get turned on. So right. We're figuring out different ways to get that turned on for the right reasons, not for the wrong, you know, just, you know, the kids leave it running for three days and nothing happens. Or you walk out of the house, cabin or whatever, and it's running and you forgot to shut it off or who cares what. 00:34:58:01 - 00:35:20:22 Speaker 2 I also use my switch. It, wall switches as astral timers, so I have all my exterior lights set up so they come on a half hour before sunset when they turn off at 11 p.m.. Yep. Right. So the beauty of it is that I had some other brands in there as astral timers, but every time the power went out and it and it doesn't go out at my house very often, but I'd have to go in and reset the clock. 00:35:20:22 - 00:35:28:25 Speaker 2 So every single one of those and I had 5 or 6 of them, and that was miserable. Now with the Wi-Fi, it just picks up Wi-Fi and all is good. 00:35:28:27 - 00:35:43:13 Speaker 1 I have the same thing in my house. In fact, that's, I have not gotten advanced with this widget yet. That's all I have. Mine doing is my is my exterior lighting, is the lighting it on a timer function, but you're right, that is great because the ones I had before, you know, our our power goes out all the time. 00:35:43:13 - 00:35:47:04 Speaker 1 Unfortunately, our grid sucks. But. 00:35:47:05 - 00:35:49:13 Speaker 2 Hey, hey, hey, careful now. 00:35:49:16 - 00:35:56:19 Speaker 1 But sorry, CenterPoint, but every time it went out, I would have to go through it and reprogram all the stupid switches. And so now with the switch IT devices, I never touch it. 00:35:56:21 - 00:36:04:22 Speaker 2 I literally would carry my little barstool with me as I went to each and every one of those things and had to go through the whole reprograming process. 00:36:04:22 - 00:36:11:14 Speaker 1 So the switch, it also works with, like, Google Home and Alexa, and all that stuff too, right? 00:36:11:19 - 00:36:30:20 Speaker 2 It can work. Yeah. Automations can reach out and and communicate with your Google Home. I haven't actually done that on my Google Home. But I know that there's more complex stuff. But the integrator, the integrator industry, which does a lot of this has used that for the last probably 4 or 5 years. Yeah. And has done some really great work. 00:36:30:23 - 00:36:52:13 Speaker 2 The other thing that there's even more on the modules, the modules are becoming even more refined so that you can, you know, they'll get even more fine tuned on carbon monoxide. They have, we're going to see probably by the end of the year, we're going to see a radon application. We're going to see again more of the camera stuff. 00:36:52:16 - 00:37:20:26 Speaker 2 Also have leak detection. Leak detection is in again, I go back to this multifamily. Oh my gosh, leak detection. It basically it puts a disk under the floor and you would put it like under your sink if you have obviously if you have a dish machine it would go under the dish machine in that pan. But it would send you a note saying, hey, I've detected moisture under this sink or under this dish machine, and boom, you can get in there before you have physical damage. 00:37:20:29 - 00:37:21:23 Speaker 2 00:37:21:25 - 00:37:32:29 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah. One of the guys from it came a few months ago and did a presentation for several builders and talked about all the different modules they have in development. Right now, and it was really impressive, all the things that they're working on. 00:37:32:29 - 00:38:00:08 Speaker 2 Right. There's not just Wi-Fi, but you have Z-Wave and they have some other protocols that they're they're doing for more commercial applications. You know, I, I see and let's go back to multifamily. One of the things that we were looking for is, is temperature right in the unit. So I was at University of Oregon, one of their housing programs, and they have a horrible problem there because, you know, first of all, the kids that rent student housing, oftentimes they literally have never lived on their own before, right? 00:38:00:08 - 00:38:19:18 Speaker 2 So they will and they're they're students. So they're poor. We we are. Yeah. Assume that they have no money, but when they go to go home, they'll just go to the breaker panel and shut everything off. Right. So now you've got no heat. They're usually box heaters or toques or whatever, you know, and no heat in there. Well, it's Thanksgiving or Christmas or New Year's or whatever. 00:38:19:18 - 00:38:37:19 Speaker 2 And the temperature drops out and all of a sudden all the pipes freeze. And now they come back, and they come back and there's this monstrous mess. And property management is trying to figure out how to manage that and what you can do with the switches. You set up a temperature trigger, right. So you have a temperature goes to a certain point. 00:38:37:19 - 00:38:57:12 Speaker 2 Property manager gets it gets a, a note, and then he can go over and start doing this. He starts with a knock and talk and says, hey, you guys got to keep your temperature up. You got moisture, mildew, whatever, all this stuff. And then if the temperature drops to an extreme value, he can go over it and enter and preserve the property space. 00:38:57:15 - 00:39:08:03 Speaker 2 And, and all of those things are we'll say, you know, they can save tens of thousands of dollars both in revenue and expense. By the time you get to work, the repair work completed. 00:39:08:09 - 00:39:34:07 Speaker 1 Yeah. One of the so I was trying to run some scenarios because I was preparing for this like some other, ways that we could integrate switch it for either IQ or energy efficiency and things like that. So obviously the, you know, the the exhaust fan is the big one, right? Using that as a trigger, although we already use the Panasonic getting into the which were green exhaust fans that already have the built in humidity sensor. 00:39:34:09 - 00:40:01:24 Speaker 1 But so that's the obvious one. But I was thinking like, what? What else could you set up as a trigger either for IQ or efficiency? And one of the ones I thought of that is kind of off the wall is what if you had your, your, your automated shades in your house set up with a switch it device to where when the temperature reached a certain point in your living room, it drops your shades on your windows? 00:40:01:25 - 00:40:08:04 Speaker 2 Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And why not? You can do it with either temperature. You could do it with time of time of day. 00:40:08:04 - 00:40:08:11 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:40:08:12 - 00:40:25:07 Speaker 2 You could do that with, just about any concept. The other one that we were looking at is air quality. Right. Outdoor air quality. I mean it doesn't do me any good if my outdoor air quality is worse than my indoor air pump. Pipe all that in the house. And we see that on the West Coast with wildfire smoke. 00:40:25:07 - 00:40:25:20 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah. 00:40:25:27 - 00:40:27:15 Speaker 2 The last thing I want to do is, is. 00:40:27:15 - 00:40:29:27 Speaker 1 Run the RV and suck that air in with the wildfire. 00:40:29:27 - 00:40:55:07 Speaker 2 Right? Right. Because now my house smells like a giant barbecue for the next six months. And, and, so we're looking at IQ from outdoor air being a temporary shut off. So now it just cycles maybe for ten minutes per hour or five minutes per hour, whatever that number that's that's convenient for you. Or it says you know, it stops it until you go over and manually add in more ventilation or more filtration if you. 00:40:55:07 - 00:41:12:15 Speaker 2 Yeah. Change your filter from a Hepa. You know, the thing with wildfire smoke is it goes to a charcoal filter. The only way that you can resolve water where you could put a Hepa, you could put a Merv 13, you can put whatever you want in there. But the reality is it has to go to a charcoal filter because that changes the chemistry of the smoke. 00:41:12:17 - 00:41:26:24 Speaker 2 Right. So a Hepa is still a scrubber. It just wants to scrub it in particular it will pass through. But charcoal will literally change the structure. So I'd like to know when I need to do that or whatnot, you know. 00:41:26:29 - 00:41:38:08 Speaker 1 Yeah. So it could even be a hey, if, if the air quality hits a certain amount, you send me a notification. So. So at the very least, I could go manually turn off. Absolutely. The RV or the fresh air. 00:41:38:08 - 00:41:57:09 Speaker 2 And it's remarkable how many. And I can't speak for Houston, but, how many areas are have bad IQ? I mean, I can think of, like Salt Lake City, for example. It's just a giant valley between two mountains, and they get at these inversion layers. And literally it could be the middle of spring, most beautiful day in the world. 00:41:57:09 - 00:42:16:16 Speaker 2 And there's no air moving. And that air is just, it's a stay at home day. Yeah. So I there's a number of areas like that. There's Eugene, Oregon, there's Fairbanks, Alaska. These are all ones that I've been to, an experienced, you know, just seeing that my word, you can't see down the road to the next stoplight because it's so nasty. 00:42:16:23 - 00:42:32:16 Speaker 2 Yeah. So and those are just natural occurring phenomena. They come and they go. Right. So I don't have to build in a whole infrastructure to resolve it. I can just parse what I have right and, and then come back to it when it's resolved. 00:42:32:19 - 00:42:51:25 Speaker 1 So I was wondering if like one day there might be, a tie in with some sort of smarter air conditioning system where you've got a temperature sensor in every room using a switch device, and when the either the temperature or the IQ hits a certain amount in that room, it can trigger just that room. You know. 00:42:51:28 - 00:43:14:09 Speaker 2 So all sorts of pathways there. You bet. We're we're looking at doing some, really remarkable Hvac configurations to make that come to fruition for at a price point where you as a builder can turn around and sell that to every homeowner and have that kind of protection. Yeah. There's, you know, right now it's everything's a function of money, right? 00:43:14:09 - 00:43:31:23 Speaker 2 I could make a I could make a pig fly with enough money. I just, you know, you're not on an airplane. Get on there. Pay money to fly it. But, all of these things are the technology is improving. The technology is getting less expensive. The form factors are getting so much smaller because I can do so much more with it. 00:43:31:23 - 00:43:50:15 Speaker 2 Same amount of it. Hardware. It's just remarkable what we're able to do today versus what we couldn't do. You know, even 20 years ago or ten years ago, if you will. Yeah. So, I mean, I think about cars, right? There's more computers in my car right now than we ever sent to the moon, ever sent to the moon. 00:43:50:15 - 00:43:52:16 Speaker 2 Yeah. So, you know. 00:43:52:16 - 00:43:56:10 Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, more technology and. Yeah. And this device right here in my hand and. Yeah. 00:43:56:11 - 00:44:02:02 Speaker 2 Or your smartwatch, for heaven's sakes. Right. I mean, it's just remarkable how much information we're able to do with that. 00:44:02:08 - 00:44:20:06 Speaker 1 It's great to see how all that technology is being taken and applied to the world of, construction, ventilation. And, because the construction world historically has been a little slow to adapt things like that. So it's, it's great to see this stuff starting to hit us, too. 00:44:20:07 - 00:44:41:07 Speaker 2 There's, it's it's a small step process, right? Especially in the construction world. And, and part of that is that the success of construction comes over time. You know, it's not like I can write some software and go be successful in construction. I've got to go build houses. I mean, I've got to spend a few years figuring out how to build houses. 00:44:41:07 - 00:45:02:10 Speaker 2 I got to figure a few years figuring out how to build a house that's going to sell and and so forth. I mean, in construction, there's it's not AA1 and done application. You know, there's no it's just process. And then I have to go find somebody with money who believes in my idea. That's maybe unproven. So so it takes a minute. 00:45:02:10 - 00:45:18:17 Speaker 2 It's going to take a minute. But at the end of the day, and this is one of the things I, I kind of wanted, I would have liked to have talked about yesterday at the event when people were pushing back on these different ideas. It's not just that the feds are trying to contain the way you build a house. 00:45:18:20 - 00:45:41:21 Speaker 2 The reality is the market is evolving right? And you can you can push back all you want about your about your not wanting to give up your gas, but some of your buyers don't want gas. Well, and if you you stand on that horse for the longest, longest time, you'll either evolve or die, right? I tell my friends it's like going fishing and using the wrong bait. 00:45:41:24 - 00:46:05:24 Speaker 2 I could put all the wrong bait in the water. I want never catch a fish. Yeah. So I, you know, as a builder, you too have to be able to see how the market sales and marketing is kind of a nebulous business because it's just this cloud. There's a reason that it's an art and not a science. You get a Bachelor of Arts and marketing versus a, you know, a science degree where the where the math is always perfect and stuff. 00:46:05:27 - 00:46:23:05 Speaker 2 It's an art and you have to use your imagination. You have to listen to your customer. I mean, build what your customer wants. That's the easiest way to sell your house, right? So, it's not just a matter of I'm going to fight back or push back and put gas in here. Yeah, I need to get what my customer wants. 00:46:23:05 - 00:46:42:00 Speaker 1 Well, one of the things that George said that, I strongly believe in is that you have to listen to your customer, so. So ask, you know, what do you love about your current house? What do you hate about your current house? Listen to what they're saying and use that information and say, okay, how how is what we're doing going to solve their problem? 00:46:42:00 - 00:47:04:02 Speaker 1 So that's one of there's a well known sale system called the Sandler sales method. And one of the keys to that is is solving the customer's pain. People buy when they have pain, whether they realize or not. And pain doesn't have to be physical pain. But like like what's causing that customer to lose sleep or what makes them uncomfortable or what do they not like? 00:47:04:02 - 00:47:29:25 Speaker 1 And then present your solution to solve that pain point. Right. And so when we talk about, pain points for IQ, you know, like how are you feeling right now? Do you wake up refreshed in the morning or your kid's not having, or are you kids having breathing issues? I like listen to that stuff and say, okay, well, what we're providing is going to help those issues, right. 00:47:29:25 - 00:47:32:08 Speaker 2 Right, right. We're trying to prevent or prevent. 00:47:32:08 - 00:47:32:27 Speaker 1 Yeah. Right. 00:47:33:01 - 00:47:55:22 Speaker 2 And so you're listening for chronic cough. You're there's there's a thing in the medical industry, they call it the oh my gosh, what's the name of it. But they look at kids is the asthma salute or something like, that's the asthma salute because kids walk into the E.R. if you're low income and your kid's having an asthma issue or whatever, you go to the E.R. because the air will not turn you away. 00:47:55:29 - 00:48:18:29 Speaker 2 Right? And they have what they call the asthmatic salute. And that's that wrinkle right above the nose. Because the kid. Yeah. It's constantly. And there he'll go in and that the doctor will look at that and say, there's a chronic issue going on and it's most likely an environmentally caused issue. Where I live, they literally sent, they had so many kids coming from this apartment complex. 00:48:18:29 - 00:48:48:24 Speaker 2 And granted the apartment complex was probably 20, 25 years old, but so many kids were coming in that they sent the health department to inspect and the health department literally red tagged the whole complex because it was so mold infested, you know, there was so much mold and mildew and, I mean, it was just, creating chronic asthma infections, which migrates into pneumonia, which as again, as I talk about that world class athlete, you go on this steady decline, right? 00:48:48:24 - 00:49:04:22 Speaker 2 So you don't feel and this is a whole nother this is my rant. If you will be you get that issue where you don't feel right as a kid, the last thing you want to do or your parent says, oh, you're not going outside, you know, stay here, you don't feel well, you're whatever I, I want to stay here. 00:49:04:22 - 00:49:25:25 Speaker 2 So what's the kid do? He goes and he plays video games. He eats. It's no exercise, you know, he eats and drinks and plays video games. No exercise. So now we get this kid who is heavy, right? He's got no outlet for all this, right? And then we run into childhood diabetes, which is even more expensive as a society to resolve. 00:49:25:27 - 00:49:45:04 Speaker 2 So all of these things, you know, we have to stay healthy to get healthy, to, to be healthy, right? I mean, it's it's there's there's a long list of things you have to do right to be right. And the first thing you do is don't do wrong things. I know it sounds really simple. Yeah. You know. 00:49:45:06 - 00:50:10:29 Speaker 1 Indoor air quality. It's not a it's not a conservative or liberal thing. And that's kind of what I, I thought about standing up and saying yesterday, but I don't wanna get involved in the discussion. But it's not it's not a left wing, left wing, right wing thing. It's as builders, if we have the option to give our customers, a product that that lets them live healthier, why wouldn't we do that? 00:50:10:29 - 00:50:31:08 Speaker 1 So. And unfortunately, if that means not doing a gas range or not doing a wood burning fireplace or a gas fireplace in their house, I mean, that's why wouldn't we try our best to give them that product that's going to let them live a healthier life? It's not. It's not, you know. Oh, I'm being a greenie by not giving them a gas range, you know. 00:50:31:08 - 00:50:31:28 Speaker 1 Right. 00:50:32:01 - 00:51:02:07 Speaker 2 Well, it's. But it also comes down to, again, there's a value set, right. So, your home buyer is going to trust somebody, whether it's you, as you know, when the home buyer goes to buy a house, he's going to give trust to somebody. So which builders are you going to give it to when that tells you what he wants to hear or the one that tells them the truth, perhaps, you know, it's it's how do we create these trusting communications to the home buyer, these trust building communications. 00:51:02:10 - 00:51:21:24 Speaker 2 And we have to live by example. We have to demonstrate with examples. We have to tell us stories that are our visual and that, you know, we can see every day and make sense because I remember when I bought my first house, even though I'd been in the trades for a long time, I mean, I really didn't know that much about buying a house, right? 00:51:21:29 - 00:51:42:23 Speaker 2 I didn't know what made for a good fixture or a bad fixture. I didn't know what made you know, a countertop to me was a flat space. You know, where I can put food on. It didn't have to be granite or quartz or, you know, it just had to be flat, right? What's the difference between a concrete patio and a wood deck? 00:51:42:23 - 00:51:59:26 Speaker 2 Right. All of these things. And that's what we hope. And, you know, in the ventilation and the electrical, why would I want to 200 amp panel versus 100 amp versus a 300 amp. I need the builder to be able to help me understand all of these things, to give value to what I'm purchasing. 00:51:59:29 - 00:52:05:01 Speaker 1 Yeah. The homeowner trust, to help to help them or to help guide them in the right way to make the right decisions. Right? 00:52:05:01 - 00:52:22:13 Speaker 2 Right, right. So. So I need. Yeah. So you guys, you know, as a builder, you have to you're the first line of, of honesty to go to your and your buyer. If he doesn't trust you, he's not going to buy from you. He's not going to spend money to, to buy from somebody he doesn't trust. Right? Yeah. 00:52:22:16 - 00:52:31:17 Speaker 1 So that's one of the whole reasons that I started this podcast, was to help guide people in the right direction, to make the best decisions when it comes to building a house or remodeling a house or buying products. 00:52:31:17 - 00:52:55:12 Speaker 2 For a house. I'm in the process of a new roof, right? And I'm in ventilation. I can tell you all about fans and what works. What doesn't work. I can tell you about air pressure. I can tell you about all sorts of things. Yeah, I don't know so much about comp roofing. So, you know, I'm again, I'm like you, I go to, well, I don't know about you, but you probably know a lot about roofing, but I go to CI to their app and start looking at both install and materials because I want it. 00:52:55:12 - 00:53:10:03 Speaker 2 And it doesn't have to be the materials that they have on their thing. But I want to know the difference is how they're going to respond. You know, I live under fir trees. What's that going to do to me? I want to put some solar on there. I want to do all sorts of things. So I need to learn more about it. 00:53:10:03 - 00:53:24:05 Speaker 2 And where's my resource? You know, I, I don't have a huge roofing resource other than I have to believe the roofer that come to my house to give me the estimate. And, you know, maybe I want a third party, you know, some advice from somewhere. 00:53:24:06 - 00:53:35:11 Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, Ken, thanks for joining us today. I think that kind of wraps up our our widget and IQ discussion. I appreciate you joining us and, appreciate your partnership with us here at Crafted and cheaper too. 00:53:35:17 - 00:53:53:01 Speaker 2 Yeah. You know what, Curtis? I really have enjoyed working with you guys. I do like to see quality built products and, and, you know, I think that's just the path that we all have to is it's about doing the right things. Right. And I think that's just the the way to go. 00:53:53:05 - 00:54:04:20 Speaker 1 Yeah. And and, you know, from my interactions with not only you but the whole Panasonic team, I mean, that's that's the feeling that I get about Panasonic as a company too, is you guys want that that same thing, that's. 00:54:04:20 - 00:54:06:00 Speaker 2 Part of my mission is the company. 00:54:06:00 - 00:54:07:09 Speaker 1 Values are great. 00:54:07:15 - 00:54:10:05 Speaker 2 Is to drive that through our teams. So so appreciate. 00:54:10:05 - 00:54:11:17 Speaker 1 That. Thanks for joining us today. 00:54:11:19 - 00:54:12:05 Speaker 2 Yeah. Thanks for. 00:54:12:05 - 00:54:23:16 Speaker 1 Having me. And thank you guys for joining us on this episode of the Your Project Shepherd podcast. I hope you join us again next time. Take care. 00:54:23:18 - 00:54:47:22 Speaker 1 If you found this helpful, enjoy listening. Please support us by liking and subscribing here on your podcast platform, and also join us on our YouTube channel. We want to continue to bring you high quality content and expert guests, and your support truly helps us to continue this journey. If you have any questions for me or my guests or any feedback for us, you can email us at podcast at your project shepherd.com. 00:54:47:24 - 00:54:48:15 Speaker 1 Thanks again.