00:00:06:17 - 00:00:27:07 Speaker 1 Welcome, and thank you for joining us on your project Shepherd Construction Podcast. My name is Curtis Lawson with Shepherd Construction Advisors and along with my industry expert friends, I am here to guide you through these four key components of a successful project, which are demonstrated by the simple drawing of a house. The Foundation is proper planning. The left wall is your team. 00:00:27:12 - 00:00:50:16 Speaker 1 The right wall is communication and the roof is proper execution. Have all four of these components in place and your project will succeed. Whether you're building or remodeling a custom home, or if you're an architect or designer looking for inspiration, or maybe you're just interested in building science and high performance construction, you're in the right place. Please help us further our mission here by tapping that follow or subscribe button. 00:00:50:18 - 00:01:02:19 Speaker 1 Push that notification bell so that you know when our new episodes drop every week. And now let's get to today's interview. 00:01:02:21 - 00:01:24:18 Speaker 1 Hey, friends, welcome back to another episode of the Your Project Shepherd podcast. Today I am joined by my friend Wyn Walker with the Wind Walker Group. Wynn and I connected, a few months back, and I am, I'm actually not sure how I initially got in touch with you. Probably through toner. Toner? He seems to be the hub that a lot of us connect through. 00:01:24:20 - 00:01:27:06 Speaker 1 So, anyway, welcome to the show. 00:01:27:08 - 00:01:28:23 Speaker 2 Thanks for having me. Yeah. Appreciate it. 00:01:29:00 - 00:01:35:08 Speaker 1 Yeah. So, you're again, you're with the self-titled Wind Walker group, right? Actually. Sounds like a band. 00:01:35:08 - 00:01:37:05 Speaker 2 The wind Walker group does it. 00:01:37:07 - 00:01:39:07 Speaker 1 Like a 1980s prog rock band or something like. 00:01:39:07 - 00:01:44:08 Speaker 2 That. Yeah. I thought J.J. Watt was going to sue us because our logo looks just like the J.J. Watt logo, so. 00:01:44:08 - 00:01:53:03 Speaker 1 Oh, really? Yeah. So, tell us what what you do because, obviously your, your company name doesn't tell us what you do. So. 00:01:53:05 - 00:01:53:19 Speaker 2 Yeah, well. 00:01:53:20 - 00:01:55:00 Speaker 1 A lot of people wonder, what. 00:01:55:01 - 00:02:15:22 Speaker 2 Do you do? Sure. Well, we, you know, when I started the business six years ago, we started doing, technology consulting. So I was an audio video integrator for 18 years, and, decided to get out of that business as my oldest kid was going to middle school and just needed a different change of lifestyle. I was working too much and just wanted to, you know, work for myself. 00:02:15:22 - 00:02:37:07 Speaker 2 So I decided to do consulting and act as an owner's rep, really, to work on behalf of the homeowners to make sure they got, you know, expectations were met and budgets weren't inflated and work as an advocate for them versus trying to sell, equipment. And so then we did that for about two years, and it just has slowly transitioned more into broad based electrical consulting. 00:02:37:09 - 00:02:49:22 Speaker 2 And we tried to take, commercial best practices, electrical best practices, and figure out how to apply those to residences. So that's the core part of our business is electrical. We call it electrical architecture. 00:02:50:00 - 00:02:55:01 Speaker 1 And you guys also have a separate component of your business to write the concierge services, correct? 00:02:55:01 - 00:03:14:16 Speaker 2 Yeah. So we also have a concierge business, and that was a business that, we just sort of stumbled into. We had a homeowner ask us for assistance to replace air conditioning in their home. It was an 18,000 square foot home, and he was just lost. He had spent a bunch of money, with a couple different companies and was frustrated and trusted us and just said, hey, can you help us out? 00:03:14:16 - 00:03:28:20 Speaker 2 And, we decided to try that out. And it worked. And he loved it. And so one thing led to another and we were able to start this. Yeah. Concierge property management business. And so it's it's complimentary to the electrical consulting, same clientele but very different. 00:03:28:22 - 00:03:37:06 Speaker 1 It's amazing that once you build that trust with with somebody, they'll, they'll ask you to be more, more involved in their homes and, and what they're looking to. 00:03:37:06 - 00:03:49:23 Speaker 2 Do 100%. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I had a mentor of mine when I was a kid that would always say or a young adult that, you know, what we're really selling is trust. You know, whether you're building homes or doing architecture or doing consulting, it really is all about trust. 00:03:50:01 - 00:04:10:12 Speaker 1 Yeah. So on the electrical, design side of things, that's not something that, typically gets done in, in residential construction, especially here in our market, certain certain markets may be more common, but here we don't really get into that in Houston. I mean, you get like a base set of plans from the architect. If you're lucky. 00:04:10:12 - 00:04:18:12 Speaker 1 Just, you know, it it it may not even be accurate. It may just be like, here's our concept of what the lighting might be. And builder figure it out. 00:04:18:12 - 00:04:35:22 Speaker 2 Right. No, it's literally the bare minimum. I mean, that's the unfortunately that's the status quo, in the community here and not just here in Houston, but just by and large across the country. I mean, I do think West Coast, East coast, of course, they seem like they're leading in some ways, but I think this is, is an unusual service, really, anywhere in the country. 00:04:35:22 - 00:04:40:02 Speaker 2 Of course, commercially, that's best practice. It's not just best practice. It's work is. 00:04:40:02 - 00:04:40:17 Speaker 1 Required. Yeah. 00:04:40:17 - 00:04:56:22 Speaker 2 So, you know, it's it's sort of shocking to me that the residential industry doesn't have some requirements for MEP engineering. So we're trying to fill that role. They say, hey, look, you know, this may not be required, but the status quo, we believe doesn't work. Not well. 00:04:56:22 - 00:04:58:19 Speaker 1 And if it's not done right, it's even more shocking. 00:04:59:00 - 00:05:03:03 Speaker 2 Right? 00:05:03:05 - 00:05:17:11 Speaker 1 Sorry, I had this. I had to work that in there. So you know why? Why is that? Like, why? Why do we just get this base set of information from an architect or a designer? And we have to figure it out, like. Like what's. 00:05:17:13 - 00:05:41:01 Speaker 2 Real? Well, you know, what's interesting is I learned in Germany, architects are also engineers like they required to be. It's part of how they go through school. Here in the States, architects and engineers are completely different disciplines. And so unfortunately, for whatever reason, we depend on our architects to provide engineering, you know, construction documents. And that's not what they do. 00:05:41:03 - 00:05:55:01 Speaker 2 When we meet with architects and we ask them, do you like drawing electrical lighting plans? Do you did you what kind of education did you receive in education? And everyone just shakes her head like, no. Like, we we just are. We just have to do it, you know, to get a permit. We have to do it. And so that's what we do. 00:05:55:01 - 00:06:12:15 Speaker 2 But we have no education in it. We don't really like doing it. Some do, but most don't. So yeah, it's a very it's really interesting how that's transpired. And then, you know, to make matters worse than we throw that on the builder and make it, like you said, make it the builders problem. So, you know, I think we were talked about this before the show. 00:06:12:16 - 00:06:42:09 Speaker 2 I think that, you know what I would love to see, you know, not just for my business, but just industry wide. I would love to see the pre-planning process and the design process get more attention, whether it's electrical or mechanical or plumbing or whatever that scope is building science related stuff that y'all talk about on the show. I think we're really doing a disservice to our customers by forcing the builders to have to do a lot of that work, and I think builders and their subcontractors would be more successful if we just, as an industry, did a better job providing them a clear scope of work. 00:06:42:13 - 00:07:04:10 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, what what problems, arise when you, when you don't plan this stuff out? I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm thinking of things like, you know, I mean, there's the obvious things, like the customer wants some feature that's not in the plans. I mean, that's that's obvious, but I'm also thinking about, you know, when you try to put too much on one on one circuit can cause problems. 00:07:04:10 - 00:07:19:08 Speaker 1 Or if you try to put, try to run two wires for two different things, like, like an oil voltage and and a 110 wire next to each other, the interference that can cause, I mean, like, what are some other, you know, conflicts that arise when that stuff isn't planned out? 00:07:19:08 - 00:07:38:00 Speaker 2 I mean, yeah, I mean, it's the list is a mile long, and of course, but I think, you know, big picture, before we dive into those technical things you brought up, I think, you know, setting expectations for the homeowner is number one, right? Like we all, as in, as construction professionals want to make sure that when the homeowner moves in, we've met their expectations. 00:07:38:00 - 00:07:58:07 Speaker 2 No one wants that buyer's remorse feeling. Yeah. So I think, you know, you know, when you have when you don't design early enough in the process, you end up having a kind of a haphazard implementation which then results in missed opportunities, that then results in missed expectations. So I think, you know, a big part of what we do is just making sure the clients are happy when they move in. 00:07:58:09 - 00:08:20:22 Speaker 2 But yeah, on the on the technical side, you know, I think I mean there's just tons of examples like you said, you know, I think lighting is a big part of that. And, you know, lighting is a huge part of our business. And, you know, when it comes to lighting, artwork or making sure clients, you know, as you get older, one thing we've noticed when you're in your 60s or 70s, you need ten times as much light as you needed when you were 40 or 50. 00:08:21:00 - 00:08:36:05 Speaker 2 And a lot of people don't understand that. And they're just packing cans from Home Depot or whatever the local showroom sells. And so, yeah, making sure you have adequate lighting is huge. And, you know, we go into homes all the time where it's just dark, artwork's not well lit. 00:08:36:10 - 00:08:39:20 Speaker 1 Or they're just laying the the cans out on the ceiling, and it's just a basically. 00:08:39:20 - 00:08:40:10 Speaker 2 Just a grid. 00:08:40:12 - 00:08:53:20 Speaker 1 It's a grid pattern because it looks esthetically pleasing to stand back and look at the ceiling that way. Right. But it's not really thought through and where that light's going to be cast and what that's going to, what purpose does it serve? What what are you illuminating. Yeah. You know. 00:08:53:22 - 00:09:14:23 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, you know, the other thing is things like, you know, one thing that we do was we, we don't most electricians or, you know, they're, they're competing on price typically. Right. And so they're not going to include things that are extra that's going to drive up their price. So we've sort of as a community have sort of forced them to give a lowball estimate because of how we've structured it. 00:09:14:23 - 00:09:31:13 Speaker 2 You know, they're not they're incentives are not aligned with the homeowners, necessarily. And it can be, but typically, at least at the beginning of the project, the builders just saying, hey, give me a price on a scope of work that's vague and they want to win the work. So they're going to, you know, to some extent lowball it. 00:09:31:15 - 00:09:47:18 Speaker 2 Whereas we're saying, look, we're not we're not looking at anything really on price. I mean, of course we're trying to meet a budget and we're not being we don't want to be wasteful of the client's resources. But, you know, for example, let's say you have a like toner specifies a, mechanical system, and the blower needs 110V. 00:09:47:20 - 00:10:07:01 Speaker 2 Well, a standard a normal attrition is just going to run 110, whatever the spec says, that's what we're going to do. We're gonna say, yeah, but wait a minute. You know, we we know a lot of these blowers are now going to be 220, right? If you look at Mitsubishi, you know, city multis and other systems, VRV systems, they're they they have different requirements and maybe they even need wiring from the outdoor unit to the indoor unit. 00:10:07:01 - 00:10:26:20 Speaker 2 Maybe that's how they're getting powered. Right. And so we're thinking about, well, ten years down the road, we know the system's probably gonna need to be replaced. And at that point in time, will we be able to get wiring to these units or not? In many cases. You know, if it's a one story house, maybe you can. But in most of these homes we work and they're complicated and there's there is no way to get new wiring to that unit. 00:10:26:22 - 00:10:43:04 Speaker 2 So we're going to say, well, we're going to specify, well, let's go ahead and run a 220 circuit and let's size that up to a 30 amp or a 50 amp or whatever. We think we need to give the client that extra capacity so that ten years down the road they're not hit with some shocking, you know, Bill to rewire the house or they can't get the equipment they really want right there. 00:10:43:04 - 00:10:59:03 Speaker 1 So they just change their mind during the build and they're like, hey, you know, after after the job starts, they're running an AC and they're like, you know what? Let's switch to the system. And then the electricians like, well, that's a change order to go from that one thing that 220 and right, right. And people get change ordered to death over little things like that. 00:10:59:03 - 00:10:59:11 Speaker 1 Right. 00:10:59:11 - 00:11:15:21 Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. You an electrician is the reason there's change orders because he has no clear scope of work to work from. Right? I mean, you know, he maybe he gets a, a, you know, a very basic electrical plan, a basic lighting plan. Many times there are no specs, there's no specs on outlets. There's no there might be specs on cans. 00:11:15:21 - 00:11:31:12 Speaker 2 Yeah. There's no spec on wiring. There's no spec on breaker panels. You might get an appliance schedule. The appliance schedule is probably not complete. Right. So what we find is we show up and we start asking questions. Well, do you want a sauna? Do you have a heated bathtub? Do you have a steam shower? Do you. You know, and all of a sudden you're like, oh yeah, we want heated floors. 00:11:31:17 - 00:11:33:03 Speaker 2 Oh yeah. We didn't, you know. 00:11:33:05 - 00:11:39:02 Speaker 1 Do you want just the basic round outlets or do you want screw plates? Right. You know, decor type? 00:11:39:04 - 00:11:57:06 Speaker 2 Yeah. So, you know, I think what we bring to that table early on is, is we bring all of those products that are available and just present them as options to the homeowner. Right. The homeowner is always driving the ship. I mean, it's their their home, their choice. But we want to give them information as early as possible so they can make those decisions. 00:11:57:06 - 00:12:09:16 Speaker 1 So one of the things that you have on your website that I like a lot is it's a little graphic that it shows that well defined projects typically cost. I think you said like 17% less or sorry. Yeah, 17% less and more. 00:12:09:16 - 00:12:10:21 Speaker 2 So yeah, it's 17% more. 00:12:10:22 - 00:12:14:08 Speaker 1 And then poorly defined projects cost like 70% more anyway. 00:12:14:08 - 00:12:15:02 Speaker 2 Correct. Yeah. Yeah. 00:12:15:04 - 00:12:23:10 Speaker 1 Basically saying what the percentages that a poorly defined project is going to cost you more money in the long run, hundred percent in a well-planned project is going to save you money. 00:12:23:10 - 00:12:45:08 Speaker 2 Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that study was done about a decade ago and it was done across the country, mainly looking at commercial institutional buildings. It wasn't residential necessarily. But, you know, the point still stands. Yeah. That what they discovered was that a well-defined project, like you said, is 10% less poorly defined project, about 17% more. So that delta 37%, that's massive. 00:12:45:10 - 00:13:03:01 Speaker 2 Even if you only just looked at the smallest number, the 10%, even that was your only gain. I mean, that's a lot of money. And the other thing I would say is for the types of customers we typically work with, again, they want to save money. No one wants to waste money. But I think maybe even more important than saving the money is is the expectations, right. 00:13:03:01 - 00:13:21:06 Speaker 2 Is is the having a good experience? No one wants to go build a home and have a negative experience. It's already, you know, building home stressful no matter how much planning you do. Yeah. And so we want to minimize as many change orders, as many hiccups along the way to, you know, make the process as pleasant as possible for the homeowner. 00:13:21:07 - 00:13:23:11 Speaker 2 Having a well-defined scope is important. 00:13:23:13 - 00:13:56:18 Speaker 1 And most people also just want to spend their money wisely. I mean, even ultra wealthy people don't want to just throw money down the drain on, on a product that's not a good product or not a good fit for their project. They want to you specify the right things, have good quality from the beginning. So, I mean, that's one of the big things for builders who are transitioning or builders who are at least that I see builders who are used to operating in one price range, and they're trying to step up to the next price range, that they don't really have a concept of what that next price range expects for, you know, a 00:13:56:18 - 00:14:08:13 Speaker 1 level of quality, a level of product. So they try to apply the same products they used in a $1 million house to a $5 million house. And those products don't always equate. 00:14:08:13 - 00:14:12:02 Speaker 2 Sure. Yeah. The bulk of the products and the subs as well. Right. Subs. 00:14:12:02 - 00:14:12:07 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:14:12:07 - 00:14:16:04 Speaker 2 Subs don't always equate either. So yeah I agree with that. 00:14:16:06 - 00:14:36:16 Speaker 1 So on the electrical planning side, I assume that you guys are looking not only at just the electrical wiring, but also kind of how that plays with the other components that require electrical. So Hvac, low voltage, I would assume like outdoor, like landscape lighting, like all that kind of stuff. Correct. You guys looking at the big picture? 00:14:36:16 - 00:14:55:21 Speaker 2 Yeah, literally. I mean, if it has power, we design it to whether it's high voltage, low voltage, solar generators, whatever is involved. If it has power, we want to manage that. Part of the scope. You know, I think one thing that we bring to the table is, you know, we want the accountability. You know, we want to we want to be that one neck to choke when it comes to the electrical scope. 00:14:55:21 - 00:15:15:07 Speaker 2 And right now what happens is there's, you know, a dozen different people in that scope. Cooks in the kitchen, right? You've got the homeowner and the builder and the electrician and the lighting showroom and the architect and the interior designer and the landscape lighting guy, and it just goes on. The list goes on and on and on. So, you know, what we're saying is, hey, let's this is not this is haphazard. 00:15:15:07 - 00:15:31:11 Speaker 2 Let's take all of that, roll it into one person, one one company that can manage that and be accountable for that. So when there's a question, like you said, these homes have become electrical wise, very integrated. You know, you can't if you make one change here, it may change 2 or 3 other things. So we'd be very mindful of that. 00:15:31:11 - 00:15:45:13 Speaker 2 And if you have ten different people manage that scope, a lot of times that information flow just doesn't happen. And all of a sudden something changes on one side and then someone else doesn't find out and you end up with finger pointing. So we want to eliminate finger pointing and have, have that accountability. 00:15:45:15 - 00:16:03:12 Speaker 1 One of the other things that you say on your website that I loved, and by the way, your website is full of great little nuggets of wisdom throughout. So good job on that. One of the things that I like you said, but the quality of a home can't be actually saved here on my computer, because the quality of the home cannot be derived by appearance alone. 00:16:03:12 - 00:16:17:14 Speaker 1 So I think that's a fantastic quote, and a lot of the quality that goes into construction, people never actually get to see on a daily basis. And I think people struggle sometimes with spending money on things that they can't. 00:16:17:16 - 00:16:17:21 Speaker 2 You know. 00:16:17:22 - 00:16:41:11 Speaker 1 See or get direct enjoyment from. At least they think they're not getting direct enjoyment from it. Right? Sure. But so many of those things that are behind the walls really affect their day to day life. So when we talk about, you know, back to lighting, for example, I mean, quality of lighting can affect your health, your mood. There's a lot that goes into that, you know, kind of the health science behind lighting. 00:16:41:11 - 00:17:00:00 Speaker 2 Yeah. And what's interesting about lighting is I sometimes I people will have a room and they just don't like being in it, but they're not sure why. And I think a lot of times it's lighting, you know, if you are in a room that has a lot of glare, you may not immediately pick up on it, but it's fatiguing and you don't want to be in that space. 00:17:00:02 - 00:17:13:22 Speaker 2 And unfortunately, almost all the cheap lights have tremendous glare. I mean, you look up and you're looking right into a light source. So as a lighting designer, you know, we always want to hide that light source. You don't want to ever see it. It's tough because a lot of what we do, almost all what we do is hidden. 00:17:13:22 - 00:17:25:20 Speaker 2 Maybe lighting isn't hidden. Yeah, but most of what we do is. So it is a it can be a tough sell. To some customers because you don't see it, but it definitely has a long term impact, like you said. On enjoyment of the home and health as well. Yeah. 00:17:25:20 - 00:17:48:16 Speaker 1 When people are talking about budgets with me and where people are trying to understand where costs are coming from, they're like, oh, I'll just I'll just choose some cheaper countertops or some cheaper tile and, and get the budget down right. And that might get the budget down a very small percentage. Right. But the big portion of their construction budgets are actually going into those things that you can't see. 00:17:48:18 - 00:17:49:00 Speaker 2 You know. 00:17:49:00 - 00:17:55:21 Speaker 1 The foundation, the framing, the electrical, the Hvac, all that. Those are the big ticket items, not what countertops you pick. 00:17:55:21 - 00:18:20:00 Speaker 2 Right? I always sort of chuckle when I go in and I see, you know, $100,000 Gargano range or Wolf range or something that, you know, probably doesn't get used all that often in some of these homes. And then, you know, but they, you know, so they're willing to so, you know, spend the money on that, but sometimes cut corners on electrical or, or other things that I think are a higher impact, you know, lighting control, for example. 00:18:20:02 - 00:18:27:07 Speaker 2 So, yeah, it's it's interesting how people want to try to value engineer things, but I love that quote. It's a great quote. 00:18:27:09 - 00:18:51:21 Speaker 1 So one of the things that kind of ties into this too, is kind of the need for designing and thinking through the stuff before you start. Construction is just kind of the complexity of things, the complexity of today's homes. It's not like a home. So even a very large, expensive home 20, 30, 50 years ago really wasn't that complex to operate. 00:18:51:23 - 00:19:14:08 Speaker 1 Maybe you had some complicated lighting, but in general, they were not super complex structures, right? Mechanically. But now even a even a small to midsize home today it can be very complex kind of behind the scenes. And so and especially when we step up into these five, ten, 15, 20,000 square foot Wright Estate hyper, I mean, you're basically operating a commercial structure. 00:19:14:08 - 00:19:15:06 Speaker 2 100%, right? 00:19:15:06 - 00:19:26:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. And so having all of that, all of those components coordinated, is, is super important because they are they all play together, right? 00:19:26:04 - 00:19:42:22 Speaker 2 Correct. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's it is interesting I will say on the technology side of things, we, we know when home automation was still sort of a new thing and brands like Crestron were on the scene. They still are, but they were very popular at that time. You know, it was everyone wanted to really tightly integrate everything, right? 00:19:42:22 - 00:20:01:07 Speaker 2 They wanted this one control pad. They would control the pool and the lights and the mechanical and everything. And that's people still do that today, but we actually are more of a proponent of not doing that. And I think, you know, people today have 2 or 300 apps on their phone. You know, ten years ago that wasn't the case. 00:20:01:07 - 00:20:27:14 Speaker 2 And so people are used to having a lot of apps on their phone. And so I think sometimes keeping it simple is better, right? I mean, yes, we there's a ton of integration. There's a ton of overlap between these scopes. But, you know, there's no reason to overly complicated if you don't have to. And so that is a fine line we walk when we're doing design work is, you know, knowing the client, knowing expectations, but and doing in a way that is easy and simple to use, but it's also reliable. 00:20:27:16 - 00:20:36:07 Speaker 2 We just find that the more you integrate things, you know, the more chances for failure you end up having over the long run. So this is something to be mindful of. 00:20:36:12 - 00:20:59:03 Speaker 1 Yeah. And people don't necessarily know if if something gets disconnected from that system or something goes wrong, maybe the average homeowner can't just kind of reprogram it themselves. They've got to call somebody, bring someone else to come in and fix it for them. Right? Is that is that part of what you guys do through your concierge service or even through your, your electrical, and your design service? 00:20:59:03 - 00:21:08:20 Speaker 1 I mean, do you guys handle kind of when, when these things start to get off track going in and, you know, maintaining them? Reprograming them all those sorts of things? 00:21:08:21 - 00:21:26:21 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, to some extent, I mean, on the, you know, on the audio video side, whoever the audio video contractor is, they're going to be the ones providing the support for that system. Some of our homeowners just prefer to reach out to us and, and we coordinate that. So it sort of depends. Of course, if we're doing our concierge service, then where the single point of contact for everything on the home. 00:21:26:23 - 00:21:44:14 Speaker 2 So yes, we would go we would triage that issue if they call and say, hey, the TV's not working or the network's not working, we would try to troubleshoot that remotely. If we can't resolve it, go on site and if we can't resolve onsite, then we would escalate that to the audio video guy. So but you know, the other day, they still serve, they still install that and service that. 00:21:44:16 - 00:22:05:09 Speaker 2 So the, you know, as a as a consultant, you know, we we sort of bridging this gap, this gray area where we do consulting, but we also do some procurement. We actually will. And we offered as a service to provide the light fixtures and the lighting control system. And the reason that kind of came about, we didn't initially want to do that, but the lighting scope has become a very complicated scope. 00:22:05:11 - 00:22:25:08 Speaker 2 And as soon as it goes out to a local lighting showroom, it can get messed up very quickly because they're just not familiar with, brands that we're specifying or what the, the details of the design are. So, so we have sort of ventured into that. But at the end of the day, you know, when it comes to support, after the homeowner moves in, we you know, if we're doing concierge, we're supporting everything. 00:22:25:08 - 00:22:40:20 Speaker 2 If we did, lighting will support that. Otherwise they guy does everything else. But even for our customers that are not on concierge plans because we've earned their trust like we talked about earlier, they end up just calling us when there's a whenever, you know, there's anything wrong, which is fine with us. We're happy to help. 00:22:41:02 - 00:22:56:03 Speaker 1 Yeah. The concierge stuff, I think is, is fascinating. I would assume that that's more geared toward high net worth, their larger estate homes. Is that a fair statement? Yeah. I'm using a variety of a variety of price ranges and people are using that service. 00:22:56:03 - 00:23:14:17 Speaker 2 I think that, you know, it's I think the niche is the the one step down from the families that have full time staff. Right, right. So I mean, if you've got 5 or 6 people on staff, you probably don't need our service. But if you're that one rung down that you're still you're probably next door neighbor to one of those people. 00:23:14:21 - 00:23:33:00 Speaker 2 Yeah, but you don't really like having a bunch of staff around. But you want to have the same experience, you know? So that's what we're trying to we're kind of a fractional house manager service. So we're we're giving them the experience of having that full time staff, but without the expense, without the hassle. Most people just don't want to have an employee on the payroll, right, to manage a house. 00:23:33:06 - 00:23:43:07 Speaker 2 But to your point, they are like commercial structures. So they really do need someone that's looking out for the structure, for everything. Right? And they can tie all those, tie everything together. So. 00:23:43:09 - 00:24:02:01 Speaker 1 Yeah, we've, we've touched on on on maintenance many times and past episodes, with some handyman services and some builders who offer those types of services. But we've talked about how they may there's there's always something to maintain, especially on a, on a, on a large house. But so many of those things get overlooked until it's, until there's a failure. 00:24:02:01 - 00:24:17:19 Speaker 2 Yeah for sure. Yeah. In our services, I feel like pretty unique. So you know, it's complimentary to some of the handyman services. We're not a handyman service. That's not what we do. But you schedule. We do schedule it, and we do some very basic handyman stuff internally. But we're really. You know, we're trying to give them this concierge experience, right? 00:24:17:19 - 00:24:33:13 Speaker 2 You go to the Ritz-Carlton, you've got that concierge downstairs. It'll tell you, help you with anything. And we're doing the same thing, right? The clients can text us 24 seven no matter what the problem is. You know, we don't get into the executive assistant type of side of things where that that starts to be a gray area, like, hey, can you take my kids to school? 00:24:33:13 - 00:24:47:06 Speaker 2 Can you get my to my car washed, you know, get the oil changed? We do some of that. Sometimes clients call and say we had a client a couple weeks ago say, hey, my bike needs a tune up. Can you take it to the shop and get the bike tuned up? And we're like, okay, sure. You know, we threw in the pickup truck and took it over there and got tuned up. 00:24:47:06 - 00:24:58:18 Speaker 2 And he was he was thrilled, right, that he didn't have to waste of time to go do that. So sometimes we do things that are unrelated to the property. And that's fine. But we really try to stay focused on the property itself. 00:24:58:19 - 00:25:07:15 Speaker 1 I mean, if someone is having like a, like a big, big party or event there, I mean, do you guys get involved in, like, schedule the tent, like, yeah, the tent rental. 00:25:07:17 - 00:25:22:00 Speaker 2 We definitely can. And. Yeah. And happy we were there to help. It is we're there for all those parties. But I would say most time they've, you know, they've hired an event planner. Yeah. And so they're sort of running the show. But we are we're a contact for that event planner to make sure there's electrical ready to go for the band. 00:25:22:00 - 00:25:26:11 Speaker 2 And, you know, all those things are taken care of. So we're on call for all those parties. 00:25:26:12 - 00:25:41:14 Speaker 1 Yeah, I think a lot of those folks tend to have maybe 2 or 3 different properties, maybe in different states. And so they they want to kind of know that when they leave to go to Colorado for the summer, that they're going to come home and the house is going to be ready to go. That's right. When they get back home or. 00:25:41:15 - 00:25:53:22 Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I would say one of the services our clients love the most is getting projects done when they're gone, right when they're out of town. Here's a list, a honeydew list, right. And they come back and it's all done. It's great. I mean, it's it's awesome. It's better for everybody. 00:25:54:04 - 00:26:04:14 Speaker 1 So you guys would kind of manage that process. So if they're like, hey, well, we're in Colorado this summer, we want to get the powder bath redone. I'm sure you would coordinate with a contractor design or whatever. 00:26:04:15 - 00:26:19:02 Speaker 2 I mean, we so we actually will act as, as a GC when it comes to those smaller projects. Okay. There's really not a reason to involve another GC. Yeah. Just an extra cost. So we do projects, right? We've we built tennis courts, we've done remodels, we do painting and wood floors. I mean, whatever needs to be done. 00:26:19:03 - 00:26:33:18 Speaker 2 Okay. You know, we're probably not going to do a full renovation. But, you know, we but we do. Yeah. I mean, clients out of town, we last summer, we did a repaint an entire house and refinish all the wood floors for a homeowner. And, you know, there was a big project. You don't want to do those things when you're home. 00:26:33:21 - 00:26:34:10 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:26:34:12 - 00:26:35:21 Speaker 1 Well, that involves moving all their stuff. 00:26:35:21 - 00:26:37:11 Speaker 2 Out, all the furniture, hanging out. 00:26:37:12 - 00:26:39:08 Speaker 1 Doing all their stuff that has to be protected. 00:26:39:10 - 00:26:41:08 Speaker 2 Then. Yeah, it's a big deal backing up. 00:26:41:08 - 00:27:02:17 Speaker 1 Just kind of back to our previous topic about about planning projects. I wanted to talk about how, you know, how early in the process. Well, I want to kind of go back and talk about planning. Sure. Right. And talking about how early in the process, you know, you guys like to get involved, should get involved and just kind of talk about the benefits of having all the stuff talked about early. 00:27:02:17 - 00:27:11:22 Speaker 1 So yeah, first question is like how early in the design process with the architect in the in the homeowner in the builder, do you like to step in? 00:27:12:00 - 00:27:27:07 Speaker 2 So I would say, you know, the perfect time for us is as a, you know, an architect has three basic phases. They have schematic design, design development and then construction documents. Yep. So for us we want to get involved right at the beginning at one. That's a perfect time. You know SD is still a little too early. Yeah. 00:27:27:12 - 00:27:42:23 Speaker 2 It's you know they're still moving walls around the square. Footage is maybe changing. It's still too conceptual. And we've gotten involved that early and just realized that it's, while I love that they're calling us that early, it's a little too early. There's not a lot we can do. You know, we need the bones, the structure to be settled on. 00:27:42:23 - 00:27:48:13 Speaker 1 The deeds when they're starting to talk about elevations, material, the elevations and some of the base electrical stuff. 00:27:48:13 - 00:28:05:14 Speaker 2 Right? Correct. Yeah. Elevate into your elevations are starting up. You know, selections are being made as far as appliances, mechanicals getting looped in. So that's that's the perfect time right around BD. You know, we we get involved late. You know, we get called a lot where it's like, hey, we got a we're you know, with the slabs poured, can you come help? 00:28:05:16 - 00:28:15:02 Speaker 2 And it's like well sure. Yeah we can do that. But that's not not ideal. Right? I mean, any time we have to rush, you know, we're not going to be as good as we would if we had had ample time. 00:28:15:02 - 00:28:19:14 Speaker 1 Is if you're getting called after slabs poured, I mean, there's a contract in place, things are permitted. 00:28:19:14 - 00:28:38:13 Speaker 2 It's, you know, well and we talked about this earlier as far as budgets, right. I mean, if we're we would prefer to be involved early enough to give the client to help coach them on what these things cost. You know, if we're getting vaulted slab, the builders already got an allowance for electrical and lighting and all this stuff, and then we come in and we can be viewed as being disruptive, right? 00:28:38:13 - 00:28:55:00 Speaker 2 Because, you know, we explain no one's told a client all these things they can do or have, and then we do, we do that and present it. They're like, oh wow, I want that. No one told me that I could have that. But it's twice as expensive as what the builders allow. It was. And so, you know, yeah, getting involved before allowances are set is ideal. 00:28:55:01 - 00:29:14:06 Speaker 2 They just depends, though. Sometimes the, you know, the clients hire the builder before they hire the architect. And that's already been established. I mean, it's we don't have a lot of control over that. But part of a big part of our process during design is setting expectations as far as allowances goes. So yeah, perfect time. We can get involved late if we have to, but prefer not to. 00:29:14:08 - 00:29:24:23 Speaker 1 Again, I've said this many times, but the more people that we can have at the table early on is just setting the client up for success. Right? Yeah. 00:29:25:01 - 00:29:32:09 Speaker 2 Well, like your analogy of the house, right? I mean, building the team, the planning, the team is one of the walls, right. So. Right. It's really important. 00:29:32:11 - 00:29:49:04 Speaker 1 On projects that I'm a consultant on. I don't like coming in after that process either, because like you said, I'm viewed as a disruptive. I mean, who's this guy coming in now and telling us to change the way we're doing things? I don't want to be disruptive. I want to be part of the team and help and help everybody succeed. 00:29:49:04 - 00:30:09:00 Speaker 1 Because I think what people don't think about what maybe the builders, architects don't think about is, you know, I'm not coming in to go against you. I'm helping, you know, if if I'm doing my job and we're working together, it's actually benefiting you as the builder. And he was the architect because it's as adding a layer of client satisfaction. 00:30:09:00 - 00:30:13:03 Speaker 1 Right. But also just a layer of backup and protection. So, yeah. 00:30:13:06 - 00:30:29:19 Speaker 2 I think it's tough because anytime, like, even in your relationship as a consultant, you're sort of challenging the status quo. And I think anytime we do that, people will get their feathers ruffled a little. You know, it's it's like, well, we haven't done it that way before. And so we deal with that a lot, right? I mean, again, you know, in the residential world electrical consulting doesn't really exist. 00:30:29:21 - 00:30:34:19 Speaker 2 So just doing that at all is disruptive. And so we we deal with that on a day to day basis. 00:30:34:19 - 00:30:38:19 Speaker 1 The worst thing is I've been doing this for 40 years, and you can't come in here and tell me how to do that. 00:30:38:21 - 00:30:57:06 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah. We hear that all the time. But you know what? So initially I think builders are, you know, resistive because like, yeah, we haven't done this before, but once they realize they don't have to do any project management, right. Like all of a sudden it's the scope has been defined. We have something to hold our electrician accountable to. 00:30:57:07 - 00:31:12:00 Speaker 2 And wind is going to be here. If there's ever any question about what to do. You know, most our builders we work with, you know, they're used to being very involved. Electrical scope, having to call the lighting showroom and coordinate fixtures and deal with all the questions. And every time there's an issue, they're dealing with it. When we're on job, they don't do any of that. 00:31:12:05 - 00:31:16:10 Speaker 2 They're not involved in the electrical scope very much other than just very high level scheduling. 00:31:16:10 - 00:31:16:15 Speaker 1 Right? 00:31:16:15 - 00:31:22:00 Speaker 2 Right. Yeah. So it's a huge I think it's a huge burden off their plate. It saves them a ton of time. 00:31:22:04 - 00:31:37:16 Speaker 1 So if somebody was working with you, if a builder is working with you when it came time for electrical roofing, right. Are they going to call you and say, hey, when we're ready to go? Would you then kind of work schedule the the electrician, work with the electrician, come out and do site inspections of what they're doing or. 00:31:37:20 - 00:31:53:11 Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, we're not going to schedule an electrician, but we are going to be there on site, you know, daily, weekly, whatever is necessary to make sure all of his questions are answered and to do as built. Right. The other thing is these are custom homes. Nothing even as much detail as we put into our plans. Things change. 00:31:53:13 - 00:32:08:06 Speaker 2 Clients make to say, you know, let's move the bathtub here. Let's rearrange this. I mean, stuff just happens. And so we need to be there to support the project as those changes occur and incorporate those changes back into our document. So at the end of the job, you know, it's not like an architect's electrical plan. It probably is. 00:32:08:06 - 00:32:25:22 Speaker 2 Most I'm not representative of what actually got built. Right, right. You know, our plans are precise. Every every outlet, every device is, is represented on there exactly how it got got built. And the other thing is, you know, we're telling you, electrician, we're like how to wire the outlet. So again, like most logical plans from an architect, it just shows symbols on a plan. 00:32:25:22 - 00:32:43:00 Speaker 2 These are the outlets. It's up to electrician to decide how he wants to wire those. Right. But a lot of times I think we touched on this earlier. You know, that can be a mistake, right? Like maybe the electrician, the guy that happened to be on site that's doing the installation, that's never met the homeowner, never met the builder, the architect, he didn't know anything about what the expectations are of the client. 00:32:43:01 - 00:32:58:02 Speaker 2 Now he's ten steps removed, but he decides that the outlet inside the master bedroom and the outlet right outside the master bedroom. Well, that's easy, so I'm just going. Why are those same circuit? You know, same circuit, like, that's, you know, saves me a ton of time, you know, so we we don't do that. We don't let them make those decisions in the field. 00:32:58:02 - 00:33:12:05 Speaker 2 We we, you know, we collaborate with them before construction starts to make sure that all that wiring is predetermined so that those mistakes don't happen. And we don't have GFCI outlets for, you know, tripping inside outlets and all that stuff. 00:33:12:07 - 00:33:36:03 Speaker 1 We're on a remodel project right now. And the homeowner could not his his master bathroom GFCI tripped. He could not figure out where to reset it. And this was all right for months before we started the project. And I was just over there one day talking to him about his design. And, he was complaining that his master bathroom, receptacles have been out for like 2 or 3 months. 00:33:36:05 - 00:33:57:05 Speaker 1 So, like, I just can't find this this, GFCI reset. I looked in every other bathroom, I've looked in the kitchen, I've gone to the panel, it's nowhere to be found. And I'm like, And so many of my electricians are hunting around, and we found his GFCI reset in the garage, apartment bathroom, which was not even connected to it. 00:33:57:10 - 00:34:06:06 Speaker 1 Yeah, who knows why it was wired that way to begin with, but this was a 20 year old home in West you and nobody knew how to reset it. Yeah. 00:34:06:07 - 00:34:29:01 Speaker 2 Well, I mean, and unfortunately, that happens even in brand new homes, right? I mean, they just things, weird things can happen. Because somebody decided to kind of take the easy route. So yeah, that's we see that all the time. So those are things we're trying to mitigate, like, you know, organizing the breakers in a organized fashion and making sure the branch circuits are, you know, grouped together in a in a logical fashion. 00:34:29:03 - 00:34:46:16 Speaker 2 You know, we stopped doing we don't do GFCI outlets locally anymore. All of those are in the breaker, breaker box. So it's a you know, you could argue it's a little more inconvenient if it does trip. Well, I got to lock the garage or wherever the panel is and reset it. But, you know, a lot of times as GFCI outlets are hidden, you know, sometimes they're visible the outside of there. 00:34:46:16 - 00:34:47:10 Speaker 1 Just so, yeah. 00:34:47:11 - 00:34:55:10 Speaker 2 Outside of cabinet, you never know where they are. And so it's, you know, that's not great either. So, you know, we just prefer to kind of have everything in one central location. 00:34:55:10 - 00:35:16:11 Speaker 1 I had somebody argue with me about that pretty recently. We wired their house the same way with the GFCI. Was all on the breakers, and, the homeowner argued, they're like, we want GFCI outlets in the bathroom. I'm like, well, why? Because when they trip, I want to be I want to be able to push a button like, well, they shouldn't really be tripping unless there's some kind of problem going on, you know? 00:35:16:15 - 00:35:22:06 Speaker 1 But they they just demanded it. So we ended up pulling the breaker, swapping it out and going back to the outlets, but well, you know. 00:35:22:12 - 00:35:29:06 Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, it's an easy swap, right? It's a it's not a big deal if someone wants that. But I, we have not we have not had that happen yet I'm sure someday. 00:35:29:06 - 00:35:46:17 Speaker 1 Well but so on the, the AZ belts that you mentioned, you talked about how you, you guys like to go in after the house is wired and update the plans with the as built and I've seen a lot of contractors, architects just do photo photo documentation, which is what we do, which I think is very important. 00:35:46:19 - 00:36:00:09 Speaker 1 Yeah. It's super important to have, photos or video of what's inside your walls so you can see that in the future. But most people don't go to the, the hassle, the time to update the, the electrical drawings for as builds. 00:36:00:10 - 00:36:01:01 Speaker 2 Yep. 00:36:01:03 - 00:36:18:23 Speaker 1 But that that could definitely come in very helpful let's say down the road if you want to add a load to the house or in this area like you, you know, like how the house has been wired, like how it's been set up. And there's no question about Kimi's handle that based on what other rooms might be attached to this. 00:36:18:23 - 00:36:37:20 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, again, we kind of have to do it because we're doing the branch circuit documentation. So a branch circuit is just, you know, the wiring that goes from the breaker to the outlets or to the devices that are on that breaker, that's what we call a branch circuit. So because most jobs, those are not defined, you can just willy nilly do whatever you want. 00:36:37:21 - 00:36:57:23 Speaker 2 It doesn't matter. The plans get updated, but ours, you know, are labeled on the plan. It'll show the outlets in the kitchen grouped together, and we'll say, this is going to panel three, breaker 26. And if that changes or if that load changes, then we have to update that in our schedule to reflect that load change because it could, change the balance of power within the panel or, you know, whatever. 00:36:57:23 - 00:37:11:19 Speaker 2 So, so we, we do it because we think it's the right thing to do, but we kind of also have to do it because the level documentation, level of detail we beyond to. Yeah, which is just different than you know, how residentials typically treat it. 00:37:11:21 - 00:37:28:21 Speaker 1 Slightly off topic here, but, what do you think about the, the newer panels that are on the market right now that allow you to, you know, there's an app where you can actually view the loads and your usage and all that stuff. Do you use those? What do you think about those? 00:37:28:23 - 00:37:44:20 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a good question. I think most of the time we don't use those. I mean, the only time we would use a panel like a span panel, is if you have solar, so the span can be a really good option for that. It uses, it's got relays that are built into the panel behind the breakers. 00:37:44:20 - 00:38:00:14 Speaker 2 So it uses standard Home Depot breakers, which is great. They're not proprietary. It gives the homeowner insight into, you know, how much power is being used. You know what? How the solar is performing, how the batteries are performing. We don't do a lot of solar. We just most of the homes were on for whatever reason. Clients just aren't interested in it. 00:38:00:15 - 00:38:01:19 Speaker 1 They're all oil and gas people. 00:38:01:19 - 00:38:20:21 Speaker 2 Yeah, they're all on gas. And, I wish they did do solar more. We have a lot of homes that would, you know, they got great roofs for it. You know, flat roofs. It would be awesome for solar. But we just don't get that opportunity. So. So yeah, I mean, the panel is a good panel for solar. You know, we do like to specify brand called Levitan for, our breaker panels. 00:38:20:23 - 00:38:27:21 Speaker 2 They are white instead of grace. They blend into the residents a little better. They have a nice little plexiglass door so you can see the breakers. 00:38:27:21 - 00:38:31:05 Speaker 1 That's their newer panel. That's it. So it's. It's not new, but it's been a. 00:38:31:05 - 00:38:33:07 Speaker 2 Few years now. Four years, maybe five years. Yeah. 00:38:33:07 - 00:38:34:20 Speaker 1 That's a slick looking panel. 00:38:34:20 - 00:38:53:03 Speaker 2 Yeah. It looks it just looks nice. It's high quality. The other thing that is probably the the main reason we specify it is because, most breaker panels, all of the hot wiring terminates onto the breaker itself. The Levitan does a little differently. They have a busbar, which is just a metal strip with screws in it and all the hot. 00:38:53:03 - 00:39:11:04 Speaker 2 Go onto that. So when you go to install the breaker, it just literally snaps in. I mean, a homeowner could swap out a breaker on a left in panel. There's no wiring, no tools, nothing required. We like that and we like it because we want to move up as much work in the construction process as early in the process as possible. 00:39:11:06 - 00:39:32:10 Speaker 2 So what it allows electrician to do is when he's roughing in the house, he can also terminate all those hot wires before sheetrock. Which is another huge added benefit because we've been so detailed on where every wire has a home, we want to verify that that wire got landed in the right spot before sheetrock, you know, so that gives us the ability to do that with a regular panel. 00:39:32:12 - 00:39:48:06 Speaker 2 They just leave the room, access coiled up, and they don't touch them till a year down the road when it's time to trim out the house. And by then, if there's a mistake, it's too late generally to address. So they'll have to integrate. And they do have the smart capability. So you can buy the breakers and you can do loadshedding. 00:39:48:07 - 00:40:05:12 Speaker 2 They're double the price of the standard Levitan breakers. So even though I think it's a cool technology, most homeowners just don't care, right. It's not that big of a deal. For them. So I, I don't know. I think that on most homes where we're still just doing standard breakers. 00:40:05:13 - 00:40:18:12 Speaker 1 So with that, with that breaker panel on the way that it's terminated, do you guys like to go in after drywall to, to to test things and make sure that like a screw didn't get put a real wire somewhere during drywall or. I mean, we're all still kind of waiting until. 00:40:18:12 - 00:40:42:10 Speaker 2 Unfortunately, I just that's just really not feasible. I mean, especially, you know, maybe in a small, you know, 2000 square foot home, you could do that, but in a 12,000 square foot home, I mean, there's thousands of wires and if you've done a good job routing your wires and holding them up in d-rings and managing the wire correctly and not doing a spiderweb right, like you walk, you walk into most homes and the wiring looks like a spiderweb. 00:40:42:10 - 00:41:00:18 Speaker 2 And that's not what it should look like, you know? I mean, a well wired home, the cabling should be straight and should turn 90 and should look like you would expect it, you know, professional job to look, and if you do that, you're less likely to have, you know, to hit those wires with sheetrock screws. And if they've been held up away from the sheetrock. 00:41:00:18 - 00:41:17:12 Speaker 2 So I think we try to mitigate that as the wires being run, coming back and testing the wires just really not feasible. And frankly, it doesn't happen enough. I mean, it's it's pretty rare that we have a wire that's broken. So, you know, it's chasing a needle haystack. Really? 00:41:17:13 - 00:41:26:21 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah. There's something about a kind of a well wired and a well plumbed house. Yeah. When you walk in and look at it and everything's just. It's neat and organized, right. 00:41:27:01 - 00:41:47:18 Speaker 2 And to your point, like no one sees it, right? I mean, it's behind the sheetrock. So I get it, but it's it is. There's just something about it that just resonates with me, you know, just feels better. And, you know, I guess the other thing for me is that it communicates that somebody cared. Right? So it may not necessarily matter, but it mean it's indicative of someone that cared about their work and probably did a better job at a lot of other things. 00:41:47:18 - 00:42:00:18 Speaker 1 They were. It's indicative of the overall quality of the house being built. You know, when you walk in and the plumbing's and the the wiring and the Hvac, it's just a rat's nest of stuff. What does that tell you about what's going to come in future phases? 00:42:00:18 - 00:42:05:04 Speaker 2 Right. Yeah. Yeah. We don't we don't like that. That's for sure. 00:42:05:06 - 00:42:32:17 Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, I think that's about all I've got for you. I really appreciate you being here today and talking about this stuff. Just the planning projects. I mean, we talked about this just over and over. Blue in the face. I mean, planning projects is just essential for for having a positive outcome. And, you know, the more people like you that we can get at the table early on is just setting up the client for a better chance of cancer success. 00:42:32:17 - 00:42:45:06 Speaker 2 Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Not not only the client but the whole team. Right? I mean, we, we we want to be part of a team where no one's allowed to fail. And, so I think, yeah, the more planning we can do in advance sets the whole team up for success. 00:42:45:08 - 00:42:49:19 Speaker 1 So tell our, our listeners and our and our viewers where they can find Win Walker Group. 00:42:49:19 - 00:43:01:19 Speaker 2 Sure. Well our website's win Walker group.com win any. And, you can check us out there and we're on Instagram a little bit here and there, but yeah that's about it. Website and Instagram. 00:43:01:21 - 00:43:24:21 Speaker 1 Awesome. Well everyone, just remember that quote that we already said. You know, the quality of a home cannot be cannot be derived by appearance alone. I think I think I said that right. Yeah. Okay. So talk to win if you want to help, help plan your project and, help plan out that wiring. And, I'm sorry, we didn't really get into the Hvac side, but do you guys get involved in the Hvac side of the design stuff as well? 00:43:24:23 - 00:43:43:02 Speaker 2 I mean, not really. I mean, we, I mean, we, you know, obviously for the electrical side, we're going to, you know, make sure that the specifications are right, you know, matching up the wiring and breakers for the mechanical side. We are we're not building scientists like toner or, you know, but we we are aware of a lot of that type of stuff. 00:43:43:02 - 00:44:07:18 Speaker 2 And so we were on a job actually the other day that, the house had eight dehumidifiers that were installed, and we happened to notice that they were ducted backwards, like they completely ducted the supply to the return and the return of the supply. And I called the company as a, you know, reputable company here in town. And they they didn't believe us or like now there's no way I, I said well come out and look and sure enough they went out there like, oh my God, we we did. 00:44:07:19 - 00:44:27:02 Speaker 2 It was all hard ducted. Yeah. They had they had to fix it. So, you know, there are times we are looking at other things when we're on these jobs, even though our scope really is electrical. We are looking for, you know, penetrations and exterior walls and are those are getting flashed correctly and, you know, are there mechanical issues that might need to be addressed? 00:44:27:02 - 00:44:38:16 Speaker 2 So, you know, we that's not, you know, part of our technically part of our scope, but I think it's part of just being a good teammate. We're definitely, looking for opportunities to help. Awesome. Yeah. 00:44:38:18 - 00:44:49:07 Speaker 1 All right. Well, I got sidetracked on my on my outro there, but, great. Great addition. So anyway, thanks again for being here. Always great for having me. Always great to see you. I hope to talk with you again soon. 00:44:49:09 - 00:44:49:19 Speaker 2 Sounds good. 00:44:50:00 - 00:45:00:15 Speaker 1 All right. And thank you all for listening to this episode of the Euro Project Shaper podcast. I hope to see you next time. 00:45:00:17 - 00:45:24:20 Speaker 1 If you found this helpful, enjoy listening. Please support us by liking and subscribing here on your podcast platform, and also join us on our YouTube channel. We want to continue to bring you high quality content and expert guests, and your support truly helps us to continue this journey. If you have any questions for me or my guests or any feedback for us, you can email us at podcast at your project shepherd.com. 00:45:24:22 - 00:45:25:14 Speaker 1 Thanks again.