00:00:06:17 - 00:00:27:07 Speaker 1 Welcome, and thank you for joining us on your project Shepherd Construction Podcast. My name is Curtis Lawson with Shepherd Construction Advisors and along with my industry expert friends, I am here to guide you through these four key components of a successful project, which are demonstrated by the simple drawing of a house. The Foundation is proper planning. The left wall is your team. 00:00:27:12 - 00:00:50:16 Speaker 1 The right wall is communication and the roof is proper execution. Have all four of these components in place and your project will succeed. Whether you're building or remodeling a custom home, or if you're an architect or designer looking for inspiration, or maybe you're just interested in building science and high performance construction, you're in the right place. Please help us further our mission here by tapping that follow or subscribe button. 00:00:50:16 - 00:01:02:09 Speaker 1 Push that notification bell so that you know when our new episodes drop every week. And now let's get to today's interview. 00:01:02:11 - 00:01:30:12 Speaker 1 Hey, everybody, welcome to this episode of the Oral Project Shaper Podcast. I am joined today by Randy white with Superior Home Renovations of Texas. And he's also a remodeler here in the Houston area. And, we actually met online, not a dating site. We were both in a, Facebook group, made up of home builders and remodelers and, we discovered on there that we're both in Houston and work with some of the same people, like toner. 00:01:30:15 - 00:01:32:18 Speaker 1 So, Randy, welcome to the show. 00:01:32:20 - 00:01:33:04 Speaker 2 Thank you. 00:01:33:05 - 00:01:40:12 Speaker 1 Appreciate it. So tell us a little bit about you and what you do and how you got into this business and what your company is all about. 00:01:40:14 - 00:02:00:00 Speaker 2 Sure. Brandy. White spring home renovations. I did not choose this as a career when I was a kid. You know, life circumstance kind of brought me to where I was at, but I always did enjoy working with my hands. At a young age. I like building things. I like taking things apart. And, when I even remodeled my grandparents kitchen, I think when I was 16 or 17 years old. 00:02:00:02 - 00:02:06:00 Speaker 2 And, I mean, you can imagine what that look like, but I was learning how to do tile work. I was learning carpentry, and I thought. 00:02:06:00 - 00:02:09:10 Speaker 1 It was the greatest thing. They're like, oh, so. And that was this thing. It's so. 00:02:09:10 - 00:02:30:08 Speaker 2 Good. I don't know about that, but the price was right. So, you know, I've always enjoyed working with my hands and I'm a very visual person and I like transforming things. And so when I was starting college, I did not want to work for somebody. I've had that entrepreneurial spirit to. So I started a little handyman business. And again, it wasn't steady. 00:02:30:08 - 00:02:49:11 Speaker 2 I wasn't making the money I needed to. So I started working for some other general contractors in the area, and that was just an abysmal experience. I mean, they had no systems. I mean, down there, you might get a check on Friday, you might not. And I after a while I had enough, and I figured I can do at least as bad as these guys on my own. 00:02:49:13 - 00:03:08:10 Speaker 2 So I went back to doing the handyman work through college, and then my wife and I had a child at a very young age, and I was going to school to be a fireman. And so the thought of starting a family with a fireman salary was kind of scary. And this was, you know, 25 odd years ago. So it wasn't much back then. 00:03:08:10 - 00:03:27:02 Speaker 2 Right? So I kept doing the handyman work, and then I wanted to niche down on something instead of having my focus in so many areas. So I focused on painting. I really enjoyed it. I was kind of good at it and, built up a painting company. Yeah, you know, I think I'm almost 20 guys at one point. 00:03:27:03 - 00:03:46:01 Speaker 2 Well, and we're really good, very meticulous. It was in my personality, but that also meant I wasn't making very much money because we tried to make things too perfect, and there just wasn't any money. At the end of the day, you know, we built up a good reputation. But, you know, this was getting around 2007, 2008 when the bottom fell out. 00:03:46:07 - 00:04:07:21 Speaker 2 And that kind of coincided with my burnout of the painting industry and my business collapsing. So that's what led me to the remodeling business. And we got some, you know, small jobs and bigger jobs and better jobs. And we already had a clientele based. So that kind of worked out. And then five years ago, we switched to a design build firm. 00:04:07:21 - 00:04:09:18 Speaker 2 And, here we are. 00:04:09:20 - 00:04:27:14 Speaker 1 Awesome guy actually was the second person, the second interview I've done this week, with somebody who started off going to be a firefighter and then changed to construction. There's actually a lot of firefighters that I know who are, either have like a side business because a lot of firefighters, because of the low salary, they have, like a lot of side hustles going on. 00:04:27:16 - 00:04:36:03 Speaker 1 So I actually know a lot of firefighters who are either in some kind of handyman remodeling, contracting business, tree trimming, some kind of home services related business. 00:04:36:05 - 00:04:43:05 Speaker 2 One of our project managers is a fireman. He only works two days a week, so we just limit the amount of projects he has. But, he does really well with it. 00:04:43:07 - 00:05:00:16 Speaker 1 Yeah. The, the flexible schedule that, that, that that job has allows people to, to do some different stuff. So that's pretty cool. But it just seems like it that, that field kind of attracts the type, the type of guy who or person, man, woman, whatever. He likes to work with their hands and do and do stuff like this. 00:05:00:16 - 00:05:03:09 Speaker 1 You actually see a lot of people with that background in construction. Yeah. 00:05:03:09 - 00:05:04:13 Speaker 2 For sure. 00:05:04:15 - 00:05:35:19 Speaker 1 So, today I wanted to talk with you, about planning a successful remodeling project. And we spent a lot of our first season of the show talking about the right way to plan a project. And of course, this is, you know, focused on homeowners. And so I kind of wanted to go back to, to basics there and go and take people back to what we originally talked about, because we're 50 something episodes in, we have a lot of new listeners who maybe didn't haven't gone back and listened to that early stuff. 00:05:35:21 - 00:06:14:00 Speaker 1 And so every once in a while, I'd like to circle back and kind of talk about just the basics of how you get started. And so, you know, the, the very first step in my mind and kind of get to see if you agree on this, is establishing a project budget. And I know that that's, a hard thing to do for some people because they, they have an idea in their head of kind of what a project should cost because they've heard it from friends or, they've seen stuff on TV, especially about what things cost. 00:06:14:02 - 00:06:30:13 Speaker 1 And so, yeah, creating a budget is, is a hard thing for, for someone who's not experienced in doing this kind of stuff. But anyway, I went kind of a little bit further there than I meant to, but what's your take on that? Is, is a budget the very first step the people have to do? 00:06:30:15 - 00:06:46:03 Speaker 2 It's one of the first steps. Yeah. Because that kind of dictates where the project goes. It doesn't have to be the very first thing you talk about or the conversation at the very first meeting. Sometimes it is, and I get it. I mean, it's like buying a car. How often do you buy a car? But when you do, there's always sticker shock. 00:06:46:03 - 00:07:03:04 Speaker 2 It sends you right back home. And then you come to the realization that cars have gone up in value since the last time I bought one. And so that's something we have to deal with a lot. Is helping them establish a budget. And one thing I always tell clients is it's okay not to know, like, you don't do this every day. 00:07:03:04 - 00:07:34:17 Speaker 2 Sometimes we get shocked by prices and we assemble estimates every single day. But, you do have to get to that answer at some point. Or the remodeler and the homeowner. I think, a good place to go is, you know, through local remodelers. I mean, they're the ones with boots on the ground. They know how much things cost versus going to Facebook and asking, you know, a random group of people or, you know, going on Google and having these, websites that give you these fictitious numbers. 00:07:34:17 - 00:07:58:13 Speaker 2 It just doesn't help out. I kind of like the way our industry is going, too, with the transparency and people being more open and having these discussions. If you can find a Remodelers website where they have prices, so say a kitchen, for example, you know, we start at 100 to 120 and then a mid-range kitchen is, you know, 150 to 175 and, you know, then 180 to 250 for a luxury kitchen. 00:07:58:15 - 00:08:06:16 Speaker 2 It doesn't tell you exactly how much yours is, but it kind of puts you in the ballpark and starts to help you develop ideas of what actual things cost these days. 00:08:06:18 - 00:08:25:05 Speaker 1 Yeah, there's a lot of these, Facebook groups out there that are at and there's there's one for the, here in Houston for the memorial area. There's one for the bell area. I'm sure there's one up and up where you live on the north side. But, there's these Facebook groups where all these people are on there talking about, you know, hey, what, what what should a kitchen cost? 00:08:25:05 - 00:08:39:21 Speaker 1 And hey, what do you spend on your kitchen and yada, yada. And, you see a lot of things like, oh, well, that's that's way too much money. I've got this guy who can do it for $30,000. Right. What's the danger in that? 00:08:39:23 - 00:09:00:03 Speaker 2 So that guy might have done a great job at $30,000 for a particular project, and it could have been, like, handyman related stuff. Minor kitchen or baths up nights. But. So you want to do a high end kitchen remodel? He probably doesn't fit the bill. He doesn't have the trades that are able to accomplish that, or the skill set or even the vendors. 00:09:00:05 - 00:09:10:15 Speaker 2 It's just it's just outside of his scope. So, you know, it doesn't relate from one home to another, from one homeowner to another. Everybody's looking for a little something different. 00:09:10:17 - 00:09:32:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. You don't know what that guy included. I mean, yeah, I mean, we could probably do a kitchen remodel for for $30,000 if you just want to replace your countertops and your tile and. Yeah, and do some painting, but that's fine. But that's totally different than the typical remodel that we do, which is taking it down to the studs and moving walls and all new cabinetry and all that kind of stuff. 00:09:32:00 - 00:09:32:15 Speaker 1 Right? 00:09:32:17 - 00:09:50:11 Speaker 2 Yeah. And then you get the guy that says, you know, a kitchen remodel should cost, you know, $50,000, and then you talk to him a little further and he hasn't remodeled since 2012. So he's out of touch. And you get all kinds of answers like that. It's like asking the gardener how much heart surgery is like. It's it's completely unrelated. 00:09:50:13 - 00:09:53:12 Speaker 2 He may have an idea, but here not not a good idea. 00:09:53:13 - 00:10:21:03 Speaker 1 Yeah. I think that, for me, that conversation has to be had real early on. I like to do it on the phone before. Before I even go visit a customer. A potential customer, because I don't want to waste their time. I don't want to waste my time if if we're not even talking the same language, you know, because everybody has an amount of money that they can and or want to spend. 00:10:21:05 - 00:10:46:17 Speaker 1 Well, they have to they have their they have their want to spend and they have their, their can spend. And sometimes their want to spend can, can go up, right, based on what they decide they want to include. So, you know, having that conversation from the very get go, I think establishes, hey, you know, we're here to work with you to make a project fit for you. 00:10:46:19 - 00:11:11:08 Speaker 1 But if we don't know what you're even capable of, we can't have that conversation. So if it's, if their budget is $40,000, then we just need to start the conversation with, like, okay, we're we're just talking about a cosmetic job here, right? If they come to us and say, you know, we we want to spend 80. But, you know, if we had to spend 120, we could, you know, that's a whole nother conversation, right? 00:11:11:10 - 00:11:31:22 Speaker 2 Yeah. And we just had a client recently where we went through this. We try to, you know, get past that initial, you know, conversation of, oh, that's your budget. Sorry we can't help you because people just don't know. So we're getting ready to start a project. And it was a very nice home couple look like they've done well, probably good stewards of their money. 00:11:32:00 - 00:11:48:02 Speaker 2 And they gave us their budget. They were just completely unrealistic for a full home remodel. And so we said, you know, to even get in the conversation, it needs to be drastically increased up to this amount. And I said, that's still not a healthy budget. And I said, okay, well, let's let's start there and see what we can do. 00:11:48:03 - 00:12:11:17 Speaker 2 So, you know, heavy focus was on the kitchen, family room where you spend all your time. We divide it up amongst the rooms, and then that left $30,000 for the primary bathroom. So we said just what you mentioned for 30,000, we can do an esthetic facelift. We're not getting this room, you know, some new countertops, maybe new cabinets or a reef base, new plumbing fixtures, you know, mirrors, whatever that looks like for 30,000. 00:12:11:19 - 00:12:33:14 Speaker 2 And as we continue the discussions, had more conversations, found out what they really wanted. The it was it was good because she started bringing us picture inspiration pictures of homes and River Oaks. She's getting on the MLS. I don't know why she was looking at houses for sale for inspiration, but that's what she was doing. And we said, wait a minute, this is not a $30,000 bathroom you're looking at. 00:12:33:14 - 00:12:35:01 Speaker 1 This is hundred and 30,000. 00:12:35:01 - 00:12:57:08 Speaker 2 Yeah, much higher. And come to find out, that's what they wanted. They're very meticulous people. They have they have high standards. And you could see that in their home. It just wasn't updated. And so it went from an unrealistic budget to a $30,000 esthetic facelift to a project that was upwards of $100,000. And, you know, it worked out good. 00:12:57:08 - 00:13:02:17 Speaker 2 We just had to work through that process. And it didn't happen on one visit. But it happened over time. 00:13:02:18 - 00:13:36:18 Speaker 1 Yeah. And sometimes I have to tell people, I mean, yes, you maybe could do that project for that much money, but I'm not the guy who can do that. There are people out there that could do that bathroom for $30,000. Based on what you're telling me you want to do to it. But that's not me. Because, you know, we're, you know, either we're not geared to do that type of work, that level of work, or, you know, we're just a more expensive company because my overhead is is more than the guys one man operation. 00:13:36:18 - 00:13:58:22 Speaker 1 Right. So sometimes it's, if it's if it's really, really far off and nobody can do with that much money that I'll tell them, hey, that's just unrealistic budget for anybody. But if it's kind of close to being realistic, I'll say, you know, if it was this much more, it it might work for us. But otherwise, you know, you need to talk to some guys who are a smaller operation than. 00:13:58:22 - 00:14:04:07 Speaker 1 Than what? I am just realizing that I can't I can't win every project. And I'm not a good fit for every project. 00:14:04:09 - 00:14:19:14 Speaker 2 Yeah, and I think that's part of being a good builder and a good Remodeler is still helping that person out. You can't be all things to all people. And but we all know people in the industry, so a lot of times we can send them in the right direction. Which I do quite frequently, you know, hey, this guy has a smaller operation. 00:14:19:14 - 00:14:29:08 Speaker 2 He's more geared for this. He'd be a perfect fit. And you could probably get into that budget range or somewhat close to it that you're looking for. And then, you know, everybody's come out ahead there. 00:14:29:10 - 00:14:46:18 Speaker 1 Especially when it comes to stuff. It's more like handyman type work that I mean, yeah, we can do it for you, but we are going to be just a lot more expensive on that. Like if you just want some siding replaced or you just want a paint job or whatever, we can do that. But I'm going to be so subcontracting that, I'm going to have Mark up. 00:14:46:18 - 00:15:03:10 Speaker 1 I'm going to have management. And so that goes from a $10,000 item to $20,000 item. If we do it, and we've had people say, we want you to do it because we know you're going to manage it, and I don't want to, you know, I don't want to touch anybody. Hands off. And so they see value in having us do it. 00:15:03:10 - 00:15:13:03 Speaker 1 And that's cool. I'm happy to help them with that. But as long as they realize that I'm going to be more expensive, I'm generally very upfront about that. For those size projects. 00:15:13:05 - 00:15:30:18 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, I agree, it's hard to take, you know, these single trade projects on and be competitive and we do the same thing. I've got a client that we absolutely adore and love and remodeled her house through Harvey. And, she called us. She want a new tile in her bedroom and got the pricing back, and it really jumped up. 00:15:30:18 - 00:15:47:09 Speaker 2 I mean, I think it got up to be like $12,000 to tile the bedroom. It seemed a bit excessive. So I called her and I said, you know, I've got some tile guys that you can call directly and get this price down if you would like to do that. But if you want us to manage it, do all the dust control. 00:15:47:09 - 00:15:59:11 Speaker 2 Make sure you don't have to lift a finger. I'll be happy to. And she opted to call one of our tile guys directly. And again, it's it's what works best for the client. We don't have to try to capture every dollar on every project. 00:15:59:11 - 00:16:11:03 Speaker 1 Yeah, I think that establishes trust with the client and goodwill. And, I guarantee you, if she has a bigger project in the future, she's going to call you back because you. We're looking out for her in that instance, right? 00:16:11:04 - 00:16:14:23 Speaker 2 Yep, yep. Treat everybody well and it comes back around. 00:16:15:01 - 00:16:34:19 Speaker 1 So you know establishing a budget and it's I was I wanted to say was if people come to us and they're like I want to totally remodel my house, but I don't have any idea of what that costs or, or what we're going to do here. But they've got a, you know, 3000 square foot house. I just want to gut it and remodel it. 00:16:34:19 - 00:17:03:13 Speaker 1 What does that cost? My my first response as well. It can cost a wide range depending on what needs to be done. But you know, what do you want to spend? And if I say, I don't know, I don't know what it costs, you know, I mean, it's like, what do you even throw out at that point? You know, I, I would say, hey, I can I can spend some time to look at this from like using some historical data and just kind of some general square foot pricing. 00:17:03:13 - 00:17:20:17 Speaker 1 And I can come up with a range for you on what this is going to cost. But, you know, we we charge for that service because I'm going to spend X number of hours doing this for you. So if you have no idea what this project costs and you don't even want to throw out a number, you know, I can help you create that range, right? 00:17:20:19 - 00:17:26:18 Speaker 1 And do you do the same? You all do like a pre-construction agreement or a design agreement to help work through that, that concept? 00:17:26:20 - 00:17:47:06 Speaker 2 Yep. Yeah, we sure do. And you know, every client's a little bit different. Sometimes you've got to get that shoot from the hip price out there, to see if we're going to continue these conversations. Right. We do something similar to you like I've done, you know, five full home renovations last year. So we can look at that historical data and I can give you a range of what it can be built for. 00:17:47:08 - 00:18:05:20 Speaker 2 I have no idea what you're asking. It's going to cost, though, because I don't know if you want high end cabinets, mediocre cabinets, you know, expensive countertops, and, you know, the list goes on and on. I don't know a full scope of work. This is just a conversation. So we can give you a range and then, you know, if that sounds good, then we move into the design and project development. 00:18:05:20 - 00:18:10:22 Speaker 2 And by the end of that process, we can have an exact cost for them. 00:18:11:00 - 00:18:43:01 Speaker 1 So one of the reasons that's that's really important, and one of the reasons that I harp on budget so much is because I see the results of that, that that conversation not being had, you know, where someone spends a lot of money either with an architect, a designer, or even with builders to have pre-construction agreements, they'll spend a lot of money kind of developing the project, and then they wind up at some point where now the budget's infinitely more than they were wanting to spend, you know, or that they're able to spend. 00:18:43:01 - 00:19:05:17 Speaker 1 So if you have the budget conversation early, then we, as you know, design, build remodelers, we can tailor the project to fit within that budget. Right. And we can give them. You know, we can raise our hand and say, hey, that item that you want to do is fantastic. It's going to look great, but that's going to blow your budget, right? 00:19:05:18 - 00:19:08:17 Speaker 1 So that's one of the big advantages of the design build process. 00:19:08:18 - 00:19:28:11 Speaker 2 Right. And you know, some people you throw out a budgetary range and they continue to add to the budget, you know, thinking that I can pretty much throw anything I want and still stay within that budgetary range. So it's important to keep track of what that original scope of work is. And as things are added, bring it back to their attention and say, hey, we're getting a little off track. 00:19:28:11 - 00:19:51:05 Speaker 2 These are beautiful things you've picked out, but do you want to pay more or do you want to increase the budget? And a lot of times the answer is no. And so we help them find alternate solutions or adjust the scope of work and sometimes work with us. Sometimes we even do that at the end of the project, we'll purposefully go over budget and throw all the wishlist items in, knowing that we're going to be over and see what it comes out to, and then scale back from that point. 00:19:51:07 - 00:19:51:23 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:19:52:01 - 00:20:10:20 Speaker 1 It's it's always good to give them the option and, and to say, hey, you're welcome to spend your money. I'm happy to help you spend your money. But if it's something that is truly important to you, or if it's something that you want and it's something that you're able to spend your money on. But at the same time, I want to be a good steward of the other. 00:20:10:20 - 00:20:21:11 Speaker 1 But the budget that you're giving me, I don't want to be responsible for pushing you over budget. Like if you want to do it, that's your choice to exceed the budget, not me doing it for you. Right? 00:20:21:13 - 00:20:42:05 Speaker 2 Yeah. That's part of our responsibility as a design build firm is to keep them on budget and to not let the scope creep too much or let the selections get out of hand. Because the last thing anybody wants is, you know, to go to through design, go through project development, have money changed hands, and the project really can't take off because somebody let this thing get way out of hand. 00:20:42:07 - 00:20:53:13 Speaker 2 And sometimes it happens. Sometimes the budget does get really high. But I mean, the goal is to to stay within a certain parameters so that when we're done with that base, we can go to the build phase and get this thing kicked off. 00:20:53:13 - 00:21:20:01 Speaker 1 Yeah, there's always the potential for other random things to pop up, you know, especially, once the engineer comes out, you know, once you kind of get through initial design and planning and the engineer comes out to do his work, you know, he might specify a certain, you know, material technique. There might be a here in Houston we do with floodplain issues, drainage mitigation, all that kind of stuff. 00:21:20:01 - 00:21:40:06 Speaker 1 There's a lot of things that can kind of come up later on during the design phase. It might be a big, a big surprise. And I think that we try to anticipate that stuff as much as we can, which is one of the reasons that it's important to hire somebody who's experienced, who's dealt with these kind of issues before. 00:21:40:08 - 00:21:55:20 Speaker 1 So somebody who's worked in your particular neighborhood, if you're in a floodplain, use somebody who's worked in a floodplain before. If you want to do an addition, make sure that you're working with somebody who's done in a addition before. It's not their first rodeo. Right. All right. 00:21:55:22 - 00:22:17:13 Speaker 2 And I think also important is, being upfront and honest and, and presenting a worst case scenario, so we've done full two full home renovation renovations lately and one went without a hitch. It was flawless. I think the only change orders on the entire project were client induced, which is great. And then the one we're on right now, it seems like every wall we open up, there's a surprise. 00:22:17:13 - 00:22:35:00 Speaker 2 Every floor we pull up, there's a surprise. And it's like change order after change order. And it's good for the client to be prepared either way, because sometimes you just don't know unless you do this. Unless you're tearing walls open prior to the remodel, which isn't always feasible. 00:22:35:02 - 00:22:51:19 Speaker 1 Do you guys do some kind of some kind of contingency budget or something like that built into your contracts to cover stuff like that, or do you just approach it as a, on a, you know, as needed basis, like, like in a current? It's like opening a wall up pops up. Do you, do you address that then? 00:22:51:21 - 00:23:11:04 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, I do like having a contingency in and I, we put contingencies in for certain clients and it's worked well. So it's something we kind of play around with. I don't have a definite system for that. But if there's no contingency in place, we definitely tell the client to budget a little bit for any kind of surprises that might pop up. 00:23:11:04 - 00:23:20:17 Speaker 2 And sometimes the client will make a change along the way. That changes the budget, too. So it's important for either the client to have a contingency budget or the remodeler to have on. 00:23:20:18 - 00:23:39:21 Speaker 1 Some of the banks now are starting to automatically put in an extra 10%. I've seen a few rounds lately where, you know, we have our construction loan for whatever, $300,000, and they have an extra 30 $30,000 on there knowing that something's going to happen. So that's a a good move by the banks to go ahead and include that in there and their approval. 00:23:39:21 - 00:23:40:05 Speaker 1 Right. 00:23:40:05 - 00:23:42:11 Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. 00:23:42:13 - 00:24:08:14 Speaker 1 So changing gears just a little bit when when homeowners are interviewing contractors and starting to look at doing a project, you know, the conventional wisdom is, for them to go out and get three bids. You hear that all the time, even even architects that we work with all the time that I know that we like to do pre-construction, and they even may agree that doing like pre-construction agreements are the best way. 00:24:08:16 - 00:24:18:00 Speaker 1 They'll still tell people to go out and get three bids. What are your thoughts on that old wisdom? 00:24:18:02 - 00:24:37:01 Speaker 2 So it's common sense, right? And it just seems like the right thing to do. Go get three bids. You know, make sure the pricing is right, but it's not an apples to apples comparison. And if you're if you're picking a contractor based on price, you're very likely to end up with the wrong guy in a in a bad situation on your hands. 00:24:37:03 - 00:24:57:23 Speaker 2 So you have to know what you're doing. If you call in three contractors, say, for a kitchen remodel and you don't have any plans or you just have an idea in your head and you describe what you want done. Contractor. One great guy comes and says, we can do that. I'll email you proposal in a week. And then contractor two comes in and says, well, you know, your fridge is in a bad spot. 00:24:58:00 - 00:25:20:08 Speaker 2 I can see it's up against a wall. It won't open fully. It'd be better for the work. It's if it's moved over here, which would enable us to put your range over here and have this great focal point. And the husband and wife are like, wow, we didn't think about that. That's an excellent idea. So now you've got two scopes of work, and then the third guy comes in and here is a comment about, you know, wishing that the kitchen was more open. 00:25:20:13 - 00:25:33:15 Speaker 2 And he said, well, we can do that. We can take out this wall in the dining room and then you're going to have an open flow, like you'd want to be great for the family. And that also enable us to put in this large island which everybody likes to hang around. And you can feed your kids breakfast area. 00:25:33:15 - 00:26:06:09 Speaker 2 They can do their homework. And, you know, that's an even better idea. So you now you've got three scopes of work and still no specifications, no selections, no plans. I mean, at that point, you're not even apples to apples. You're, you know, chickens to watermelons or however you want to compare it. And even if you if somebody did have the foresight to go get all this information and the plan specifications selections and you call it three contractors in all, are they all of the same level or do you have a higher end one, you know, a middle class America, a lower end one, and you get all these proposals back and they're all over the 00:26:06:09 - 00:26:20:18 Speaker 2 board. And a lot of people look at it and think, well, we don't go with the low guy because that's, you know, what we're taught not to throw it out. Yeah. He's ridiculous. You don't go with the high guy because he's, you know, trying to get rich off of you. And he's a rip off. So it must be the middle guy. 00:26:20:18 - 00:26:40:03 Speaker 2 He's got the best head on his shoulders. And sometimes you have to help people review these proposals and see like there's a difference here. You know, you're not getting the same level of remodel and you almost need to bring in an actual professional to coordinate that for you and break all this down. But again, there's additional cost in that. 00:26:40:05 - 00:26:51:11 Speaker 2 So it's tough. I mean, I can empathize with people that are trying to do this, and they don't do it every day. It's a flawed system. And if you don't know how to work it, you know, it just you're never going to get accurate information out of it. 00:26:51:12 - 00:27:17:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. I think the better way to do it is to is to interview three contractors, but not and don't even talk price, just talk about their processes and their experience. So I think it's very wise to interview multiple people, even if you hit it off great with a guy on the first visit, compare him to what else is out there on the market, but again, not based on price, based on the company's processes and their systems. 00:27:17:23 - 00:27:41:01 Speaker 1 And what's their service like? Do they use any kind of technology to manage your project? You know, ask three people that if you can go actually walk that either a job in progress or a recently completed job. Photos aren't always a great indicator because photos can be manipulated. Photos can be stolen. I've actually come across other websites with my photos on them, and I've had to send cease and desist letters. 00:27:41:03 - 00:27:52:07 Speaker 1 So, just because of photos and some on someone's website doesn't mean they did the work. So yes, go interview three contractors, but don't do it for budget. Do it for process. 00:27:52:09 - 00:28:11:06 Speaker 2 Yeah. And I think rapport is huge. You can't but you can't quantify it. You can't I don't there's not a something that you can physically identify that with. And the same with trust. Those are huge factors. And you just have to feel it. And if and if you have a good feeling, that's probably a guy that you want to talk a little further with. 00:28:11:09 - 00:28:31:17 Speaker 2 And I like your, suggestion of having them visit current job sites, because we all have those jobs where they went flawless without a hitch. These clients love us. And sure, if somebody wants to talk to a past client, we're going to give them the best ones. But I like to give an actual representation of our work. So talking with a current client is a really good interview process for the homeowner. 00:28:31:23 - 00:28:58:07 Speaker 2 And if somebody is hesitant about doing that, it's probably somebody you want to shy away from. Yeah, because we like our clients to have open conversation. We know we're not perfect. We we try to do really good work. But I tell them, hey, talk to this homeowner. Ask them, you know, if we followed through on what we said we were, if we're if they're happy with this, you know, if they would use us again, ask them also where we can improve, you know, where there's some bumps in the road. 00:28:58:09 - 00:29:06:12 Speaker 2 How did we handle those bumps in the road? And we don't have anything to hide. So, you know, we feel that's a good way for a client to get to know us. 00:29:06:14 - 00:29:35:06 Speaker 1 I've actually had people in the past, ask, you know, the same thing. And one of the the feedback that was given was they they bombard us with too much communication. But the person that was asking the question that was considering using us, they were like, well, that's not a problem. I love that, right. But to this one client, getting five emails a day from my project manager or through coach, instructor or whatever drove them crazy. 00:29:35:08 - 00:29:53:16 Speaker 1 But yet other clients want that level of communication. So it's a really it's it's also just making sure that the communication style and the systems, jive with what you're comfortable with because, yeah, I mean, not everyone's going to get along with each other. Not everyone's going to be a good fit for a certain style of management. 00:29:53:16 - 00:30:29:19 Speaker 1 So that's why I think it's super important to, you know, interview at least three people, go for the personal, see who you have rapport with, and then investigate how they do business. Kind of the last point on that is, I think that people always want to believe that they can get something, for less. And so when they when they go and interview three builders, if one guy tells them he can do it and he can do this, supposedly similar scope of work cheaper in their heart, they want to believe that, right? 00:30:29:21 - 00:30:52:17 Speaker 1 So if if Joe tells them that he can do that bathroom for $30,000, but Randy and Curtis say no, that's a $60,000 or $80,000 bathroom, man, they really only want to spend $30,000. They want to believe that Joe's going to do it. And so people I see this all the time in my consulting business, they kind of throw their common sense out the window, even even very smart people. 00:30:52:17 - 00:31:05:21 Speaker 1 I mean, like, a lot of my clients, that I see you do this are attorneys and doctors and, engineers, and they they really want to believe they can get they can get something that everyone else is telling them they can't get. 00:31:05:23 - 00:31:21:02 Speaker 2 Yeah, it happens all the time. And, you know, if you just want a lower price, you can find a lower price. But are you going to be happy with what you're given for that lower price at the end of the day? And the answer is probably no. Some people you can't reason with, that's just the direction they're going to go. 00:31:21:02 - 00:31:35:06 Speaker 2 And, you know, you help them as much as you can and hope they don't get burned in others. You can you can talk to and help them see that a realistic budget is in this range. And you know, you have an option at that point. Do I wait and save up a little bit more money? Am I educated? 00:31:35:07 - 00:31:46:05 Speaker 2 I just I was just wrong. I know what it cost and then I spend the the amount of money that I should at this point. But yeah it's it's it's something that we run across, you know, on a weekly basis. 00:31:46:06 - 00:32:04:12 Speaker 1 And sometimes I just tell people you should move. I mean, literally like instead of, like, it's going to cost this much realistically to do this house. So maybe you should just consider buying a different house, which is a tough conversation right now when interest rates are high. Because because they're, they're they're at 2.75% right now, on their old mortgage. 00:32:04:14 - 00:32:09:03 Speaker 1 And they don't want to go moving out of their house for 8% or seven or whatever it is right now, you know. 00:32:09:05 - 00:32:25:15 Speaker 2 Yeah, we we had a client, last year and they wanted to do a large scale addition, a father in law suite. And so we worked with them, you know, for quite a few months, through project development and design. And it ended up being more than what they wanted to spend. And they were just one of those people that we can get it done cheaper, we can get it on cheaper. 00:32:25:17 - 00:32:39:06 Speaker 2 And so they called another builder, and it was an actual friend of mine who works in the same area, and he called me and said, hey, I know you were working on this project. They want me to bid on it as well. How do you feel about that? I said, well, I'd rather you do it because I know you're going to do a great job. 00:32:39:06 - 00:32:51:12 Speaker 2 And we kind of both agreed that it would be good for him to do it, instead of them get tied in with somebody else who may not be as good. So he gave a price. We were pretty close, you know, for a large scale project, I think we're only about 10 or $15,000 off, which isn't huge. It's not much. 00:32:51:12 - 00:33:12:18 Speaker 2 No. And it was still, you know, they verified the price. I mean, so for most people or a lot of people, that would have been enough validation. But they had in their mind they wanted it done for a certain price. So they found a really young guy who was new in the business. I mean, I wouldn't have even contemplated taking on this project when I when I was his age. 00:33:12:18 - 00:33:36:12 Speaker 2 But he did, and I don't know how the build went, but it was we were watching TV one day and saw that guy on the news. He was, you know, running from the place through a gas station. He had everybody held hostage. And so, you know, I'm not trying to scare tactic or anything like that, but like there's there's usually a downside with going with the, with the lowest guy that you can find. 00:33:36:14 - 00:33:51:05 Speaker 2 And so in that situation for, you know, there's no way they're getting any warranty work done. And if he was available, would you want that person back in your house. And you know, there's just there's just always a downside to taking the lowest guy that you can possibly find. 00:33:51:07 - 00:34:09:07 Speaker 1 That's almost exactly the story from season one of the podcast where where we did this, this, this bit and this made up story about this couple who wants to build a house and makes all the mistakes, right? They were they interviewed all these builders and their prices were up here. And then they found this one guy's young and brand new business. 00:34:09:07 - 00:34:27:07 Speaker 1 And he says, oh yeah, I can build it for that much. And the whole thing fell apart. Yep. So if you haven't heard that season one, go back and listen to that story and, check that out. Kind of changing topics a little bit away from the budget side of things, because this is kind of about planning projects in general for success. 00:34:27:07 - 00:34:42:15 Speaker 1 So what kind of information should people come to the table with? So let's say that they want to work with you. They want to work with your process. What information do you like to have from them to start with to get the ball rolling. 00:34:42:17 - 00:35:03:08 Speaker 2 So first off, you know, both parties, they're the husband and wife or however that situation is and be present. It it really works out where somebody doesn't have the respect for the remodeler or their own home to show up for a meeting where they're making a significant investment. So both be present and it's a time to get a babysitter. 00:35:03:10 - 00:35:41:12 Speaker 2 It's time to put the animals up. But this is a serious conversation. So if you can be there, be present, and give your undivided attention to each other, the chances of having a successful project are much better. That's a physically, you know, a survey, if they have one. If you're adding square footage to the house, a long list of questions, you know, asking about how the the remodelers systems work, you know, how the if they have a communication system, if they have a schedule, they publish, if they have a financial schedule, they publish, maybe inspiration photos. 00:35:41:13 - 00:35:53:19 Speaker 2 And of course, going back to what you're talking about, budget is going to be a major driving factor in this project. So if we can, you know, you don't have to have the right answer. But if you have something in mind that can promote the conversation. 00:35:53:21 - 00:36:13:00 Speaker 1 The one thing that I don't want people to have that inevitably I get several people a year that do this is to come with a whole bunch of drawings that they've already done, like completely scaled out on graph paper and says, this is what I want. The problem with that for me is that it I'll make a generalization. 00:36:13:00 - 00:36:33:10 Speaker 1 Most people don't know how to do space planning. Most people don't know kind of what goes into wall thicknesses and and what the limitations are of different materials. And so I'll get this plan that they drew out and they're very, very proud of it. I just have to say, you know what? We I know you spent a lot of time on this, but we kind of have to throw it away. 00:36:33:15 - 00:36:34:18 Speaker 1 Have you gotten some of those? 00:36:34:20 - 00:36:52:06 Speaker 2 Yeah. And you know, sometimes that's okay for the initial conversation okay. Sometimes I can see your concept. I can see where you're going here. But you know, it's not going to be something we use or something that's very effective. But I see what you want to do. And the other thing is you don't want to tackle every single detail in those first meetings. 00:36:52:06 - 00:37:05:19 Speaker 2 I mean, you have to lay out the foundation and there's going to be steps where you cover, you know, other things and other items. So those first meetings are, you know, kind of high level getting an overview of what they want, how they're going to live in the house and so forth. 00:37:05:21 - 00:37:27:06 Speaker 1 I had one last year that came to me with full on, like 3D renderings that he had done on his own, like he he did floor plans, he did 3D renderings and SketchUp models and all this kind of stuff. And then we started into the design process of actually, you know, doing his construction drawings and none of the stuff that he had done actually worked out in real life. 00:37:27:07 - 00:37:43:02 Speaker 1 And every step he got mad. He's like, why didn't you do it? I already drew this for you. Do it this way. And it's like weekly. We're having these conversations of sir, your your your drawings don't work. Yeah. He's like, but I researched it. I know it works. 00:37:43:04 - 00:37:46:22 Speaker 2 Yeah. They're they're good for an idea, but not much further than that. 00:37:47:00 - 00:38:12:01 Speaker 1 In fact, the same client who we actually ended up not doing the project for actually drove by the other day and someone else is doing it now. But, anyway, the same guy didn't have his wife involved at all, which is which is one of the things that you mentioned a second ago. Having both parties there is superimpose because I have not had a successful design process where one person has driven the bus the whole time. 00:38:12:03 - 00:38:28:01 Speaker 1 You have to have both people, because what happens is one person gives all their ideas, designs that you get all the way to the end and then right before the contract gets signed, the other person steps in and now they have an opinion. It's like they didn't care anything about it. But now at the end, all of a sudden they have an opinion. 00:38:28:01 - 00:38:40:08 Speaker 1 And so I'm throwing the stuff out there because these these are mistakes that I've made, right. Like I've done this and it's lessons that we've learned. And so now we've established these rules that, hey, both people have to be involved in that process from, from the start. 00:38:40:13 - 00:38:51:11 Speaker 2 Yeah. And I'm and I'm glad I'm not alone there. We did that last year. We went against our standard process and the with the wife the entire time. They both assured us, you know she has full decision making ability. 00:38:51:13 - 00:38:53:21 Speaker 1 He doesn't care. He doesn't you know, he writes the check. 00:38:53:21 - 00:39:07:19 Speaker 2 Yeah. He writes the check. And then when it was time to write the check, there were a lot of questions and the project completely fell apart because he wasn't involved. But, you know, he really did had a concern at the end of the day when it was time to get serious. 00:39:07:21 - 00:39:31:11 Speaker 1 What happens often is that one person is the dreamer and one person is the reality, and usually the person who's kind of driving that. If there's one involved, the one person driving, it is the dreamer. And so then you get all the way through the designs. Beautiful. You get them the final budget, the final contract, and then the reality person steps in and they're like, we're not spending that much money, you know? 00:39:31:17 - 00:39:52:11 Speaker 1 And in fact, that's what happened on the project that I'm talking about, where the the dreamer came to me with all of his floorplans and 3D renderings, and we go all the way through the process. It's really amazing. The final budget comes, in this situation, the wife was the reality person, and she steps and she's like, we are not spending that much money on this. 00:39:52:12 - 00:40:04:11 Speaker 1 And then he wants to okay, well, let's let's take this out. Let's take this and and get it back down to our budget. But we've already gone so far down that road, it's impossible to get to get it to where she wants it to be. 00:40:04:12 - 00:40:07:06 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, that happens sometimes. 00:40:07:06 - 00:40:27:06 Speaker 1 My understanding. We'll see how it shakes out. Because we drive by this place on a regular basis. They're under construction with somebody else. I'm always interested to go back and see kind of how it went, because I know that they found somebody else who told them that they could do it for the cheaper price, so that this one property could be like, you know, a total case study and everything that we're talking about right here, you know? 00:40:27:07 - 00:40:28:08 Speaker 2 Yeah, for sure. 00:40:28:10 - 00:40:45:15 Speaker 1 So, anyway, kind of back to, what kind of what what information should people have and come to the table with? Do you guys do any kind of, you know, questionnaire, survey, any kind of fact finding for kind of what it is that the people really need in their project? How do you all do that? 00:40:45:20 - 00:41:02:21 Speaker 2 We handle that kind of, on an informal basis and per client and per job. We'll ask, you know, how long they're going to live in this house. And I know not everybody doesn't have that answer, but for this conversation, is this, forever home? Are the kids going to graduate here? How many people are going to live in this home? 00:41:02:23 - 00:41:19:08 Speaker 2 What kind of lifestyle do you have? And then, you know, we'll even get down on a more granular level when we get to certain rooms, you know? Are you left handed or are you right handed? Where are we going? To locate the dishwasher. Do you cook a lot? Do you want more drawers? Do you want more doors? 00:41:19:10 - 00:41:28:00 Speaker 2 And, you know, we will dive down into those, but we let that process unfold a little bit, too. We don't try to get every answer, you know, on that initial meeting you. 00:41:28:00 - 00:41:32:17 Speaker 1 Guys do in-house design or do you guys work with our architects or how do you all operate? 00:41:32:17 - 00:41:41:08 Speaker 2 So our interior design and our kitchen and bath design, we keep that in-house. But for any architecture engineering work we outsource that. 00:41:41:10 - 00:41:44:20 Speaker 1 So if you're like doing a addition you're going to work with the outside architect. 00:41:44:22 - 00:41:45:15 Speaker 2 Yep. 00:41:45:17 - 00:42:08:10 Speaker 1 If you're doing an interior project, you're you're kind of all in-house. So, so what and this is kind of backing up and kind of getting into what size projects you guys typically do, but do you guys do mostly kitchen and bath stuff? Do you do additions or actually you mentioned whole house remodels already. Right. But what what what's kind of your size limit on projects where you try to stay with them. 00:42:08:12 - 00:42:23:19 Speaker 2 And we run the gamut a little bit. I'd say we get more kitchens and baths because that's the most popular phone call. That's what everybody wants and what they spend most of their time during Covid. The whole home renovations really took off and I haven't seen much led up there. So we've done a lot of whole home renovations. 00:42:23:19 - 00:42:45:03 Speaker 2 We do a few additions a year. Mother and father in law suites have become more popular. So same thing. We may do 1 or 2 of those a year, but the majority of our work is going to be on the interior. And I'd say average. You know, range is going to be anywhere from 100 to 500,000. And then we get the one off remodels that are in the million dollar range every once in a while. 00:42:45:05 - 00:42:50:04 Speaker 1 And you guys work, all over you and you focus on a certain, certain part of this market. 00:42:50:06 - 00:43:04:05 Speaker 2 But we primarily stay on the north side, Kingwood, the woodlands and those surrounding areas. Every once in a while, we'll go inside the loop, you know, and it's usually one of our clients moving from the suburbs into the city. And so we follow them. But those are also one offs usually. 00:43:04:08 - 00:43:06:14 Speaker 1 And you're you're based in Kingwood. 00:43:06:16 - 00:43:09:12 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yep, yep. We have a little design center and showroom in Kingwood. 00:43:09:14 - 00:43:30:16 Speaker 1 You have an in-house interior design person. You said, and you know what are the. So again, this is kind of my going back to how you do business versus other remodelers. What are the advantages to you of, doing that interior design and all that planning in-house versus, outsourcing that to outside interior designers, architects, all that kind of stuff? 00:43:30:17 - 00:43:34:15 Speaker 1 What are the advantages of choosing a design build person? 00:43:34:17 - 00:43:52:12 Speaker 2 Well, for us, we used we did used to outsource everything and it worked. But it wasn't as efficient as we'd like that we like it to be. So we send information off to designers and we'd kind of lose touch with the project. And so we'd, you know, it'd be a phone call every once in a while. Hey, where were you at? 00:43:52:14 - 00:44:09:16 Speaker 2 You know what's going on? And we just felt we were so out of touch with the project. We didn't like that, so we brought it in-house. And the other reason, too, is, you know, these designers would do a fantastic job, but they weren't watching the budget. And so, again, the project would die before it even had a chance. 00:44:09:18 - 00:44:34:14 Speaker 2 And so by bringing it in-house, we could kind of orchestrate everything, you know, use the illustration of a of a house. And I like to have a circle for design because you've got the homeowner at the top, then you've got the builder who kind of orchestrates everything. If a design build firm, then you've got, you know, kitchen bath designer, interior designer, selections coordinator, architect, engineer, you know, all these people don't work on every project, but they might. 00:44:34:16 - 00:44:53:20 Speaker 2 And if you don't have somebody coordinating everything, if there is a break in that connection then that's kind of where the, the train starts to derail. And so by bringing it all in-house we were able to remind everybody, hey there's a real budget involved here. You know, there's real people with real checking accounts. And we need to have that at the forefront all the time. 00:44:53:22 - 00:45:09:02 Speaker 2 And hey, this is a beautiful room that you designed. But remember, they have four kids and they want their home to be the hangout for all their kids as they grow older. So this is not going to be a showpiece house. This is going to be something that's lived in. And again, it's keeping everybody on the same page. 00:45:09:02 - 00:45:14:00 Speaker 2 So when you go do make that final presentation, hopefully you're pretty close to the mark. 00:45:14:02 - 00:45:36:15 Speaker 1 I think one of the big advantages that you that you mention is, is just the kind of the staying in touch because the design process sometimes, can drag out a long time if you're not the person driving, you know, pushing it in. Architect an interior designer who we love architects, we love interior designers obviously have a lot of them on on the show, like working with them. 00:45:36:17 - 00:46:00:15 Speaker 1 But for especially for remodel kitchens and baths, smaller projects, the ability for a design build firm like you or I is that we can we can push that process through and kind of shrink the timeline, right? Because if it goes out to the architect and then maybe it goes to a designer, maybe it goes your engineer, but I think it flowed out there for six months, right. 00:46:00:17 - 00:46:08:08 Speaker 1 Versus if we're doing all of this internally, we can maybe push that through in a matter of weeks and get that knocked out. Right? 00:46:08:10 - 00:46:23:07 Speaker 2 Yeah. And design is not quick. There are some jobs that we do rush in in one off circumstances, but I always tell people it's better to take an appropriate amount of time to do this. Like let's plan this out properly. You know, if if you're trying to get this project started in two weeks, you're you're better calling somebody else, right? 00:46:23:09 - 00:46:43:09 Speaker 2 And although we can do it faster sometimes than others, I still like to give a realistic timeline. Design is just not fast. There's a lot of back and forth. If you don't hit it out of the park on the first design and you have meetings back and forth, at different phases, it really extends the design phase. So people need to have a realistic time of how long that's going to take. 00:46:43:09 - 00:46:52:08 Speaker 2 And then after that's done, if they decide to move forward with you scheduling that project and how long the project is going to take. So it's not always as quick as people would like it to be. 00:46:52:10 - 00:47:07:02 Speaker 1 What kind of general timelines do you get people for various sized projects? If it's just a bathroom or a kitchen remodel, how long do you tell them? Kind of the planning part of it would would normally take and then like a whole house remodel, how long does that planning process take? 00:47:07:02 - 00:47:24:00 Speaker 2 So if it's just a kitchen or a bath, I you know, we like to say 60 to 90 days. Can we do it in 30. We can. But again I want to give them a realistic timeline. And have the appropriate amount of time to make decisions. And if it's a whole home, you know, that could be anywhere from 3 to 6 months, right? 00:47:24:00 - 00:47:39:01 Speaker 2 And a lot of times it's how fast the client wants to move to. Some people are really on top of it, and some people like taking their time, and that's okay too. But we just need to make sure they understand we can't design this. All this work in 30 days and, you know, be ready to start in a month and a half. 00:47:39:05 - 00:47:55:12 Speaker 1 Yeah I agree. So for like a primary bathroom or something like that I'll tell them yeah we could we could get the bulk of design done in six weeks. It might be, you know, 8 or 9 weeks for, for for a bathroom. But a whole house is definitely more in that 3 to 6 month range. When you factor in, it's got to go out to the engineer. 00:47:55:12 - 00:48:18:10 Speaker 1 And, you know, engineers are kind of slow right now. Might might take a few weeks just for the engineer to get to get back to us. We can't finish that final set of plans until we get the engineering back. So people call us a lot and say, you know, we want to start this project next month. We're ready to go, and we have to kind of give them a reality check and say, we probably should plan this for, you know, the fall. 00:48:18:12 - 00:48:19:10 Speaker 2 Yep. 00:48:19:12 - 00:48:21:13 Speaker 1 Or next spring or whatever, you know. 00:48:21:15 - 00:48:39:07 Speaker 2 And you have to help people understand to by taking the proper amount of time to plan this project out, means we're going to move faster once we get started. The guy that can start next week is going to be flying by the seat of his pants calling you. We're calling you on vacation about every little single detail. You're going to have to pick selections on the way. 00:48:39:09 - 00:48:48:15 Speaker 2 Mistakes are going to be made. The project's going to end up costing more than what you thought it would. So if you can take the time to plan this properly, we're going to go faster later. 00:48:48:20 - 00:49:09:08 Speaker 1 How much do you like to have selected upfront before you start the project? You know, so even just on a a bathroom or a kitchen, most especially a kitchen, there's a lot more selections than people realize. There are just a little small decisions. How much of that do you like to have picked out before you ever start? Versus it's okay to choose it. 00:49:09:08 - 00:49:11:02 Speaker 1 Once the project started going. 00:49:11:04 - 00:49:21:03 Speaker 2 We shoot for 100% selections chosen and on site. Before we start. I think the exception would be with maybe cabinet hardware. We can we can pick that once we get going. 00:49:21:03 - 00:49:23:07 Speaker 1 Paint colors. We try to go with that too. 00:49:23:09 - 00:49:41:04 Speaker 2 I like to have everything selected before we start. Yeah, it's not always the case, but I'd say we get 98% of it selected. That's great because when we have our pre-construction meetings, we want our project managers to hit the road running, not asking questions about tile layout, grout color, paint colors, because that kind of puts a cog in the wheel. 00:49:41:04 - 00:49:46:10 Speaker 2 It slows the designer down. She takes our attention off of something else. So we just try to do all that pre-planning upfront. 00:49:46:12 - 00:49:57:13 Speaker 1 Yeah. Let's talk about kind of the consequences of not having some of that stuff done. So you know, let's say you don't have all your your plumbing fixtures or your tile picked out before you start that project. What are the applications for that? 00:49:57:16 - 00:50:21:07 Speaker 2 So you could demo a home or even just a kitchen and start looking at selections, and you might even have 50% of them chosen. And then you go to order them and realize, well, something's back ordered or something's out of stock. Or during Covid, we had all kinds of issues and we moved forward in Covid thinking we were safe, like, okay, we're planning on putting in this shower valve in the shower, you know, Ferguson says. 00:50:21:07 - 00:50:40:10 Speaker 2 Assured us we'll have it in three weeks. No issues. Okay. We feel pretty comfortable about it. Let's move forward. Well, we're finished with the project, but people can't use their primary shower. They're upset and you know, so there's all kinds of little circumstances and you just can't predict what's going to happen out there. There's so many people that touch these things. 00:50:40:12 - 00:50:47:04 Speaker 2 Things get back ordered. They go out of stock. And the last thing you want to do is tear somebody's home apart and not be able to finish. 00:50:47:06 - 00:51:03:17 Speaker 1 Yeah. Now you're waiting on AA3 cent washer to show or, you know, I mean literally like on a, on a plumbing valve, some little washer that's manufactured in some random country halfway across the globe can prevent that shower valve from showing up on time. It's all about supply chain, right? 00:51:03:19 - 00:51:20:09 Speaker 2 Yeah. And the other thing is, even if you're guaranteed something's already shipped, you feel pretty safe about starting because it's, you know, it's on the truck, it's coming. So you order custom cabinets. They're on the way. So you tell the client we can go ahead and demo, but when the when the cabinets arrive, they're damaged. And so again, you're in the same situation. 00:51:20:09 - 00:51:28:17 Speaker 2 And if it's a custom order and it takes 12 weeks to get those cabinets back to the jobsite, that's not going to be a happy client. It's going to be a bad experience from there on out. 00:51:28:18 - 00:51:35:06 Speaker 1 Yeah. So you're you're a proponent of having not only everything selected but actually having everything on hand, right? 00:51:35:08 - 00:51:40:00 Speaker 2 Yeah. We put, pretty much everything on site before we start the project. 00:51:40:01 - 00:51:45:20 Speaker 1 You're storing it at the house, so like, you're not like, like, like shipping it all to your office and it's all sitting in your warehouse combination. 00:51:46:01 - 00:52:08:13 Speaker 2 So cabinets. That takes up a lot of room. Oh yeah. Like to time that so they can ship straight to the house. Unless we're building cabinets on site, some small items will get shipped to our office. Other things we'll try to time it where it gets sent to the house right before the start of the project. But primarily, I mean, the goal is to have everything either at our location or the house. 00:52:08:13 - 00:52:09:06 Speaker 2 Before we start. 00:52:09:10 - 00:52:38:01 Speaker 1 I think the, you know, another danger other than just timing is if certain things aren't picked out or certain things are changed halfway through, it can really change all of your, all your layouts, even so. Or it can change the placement of a valve. So if you don't have your shower valves picked out, right, that that shower valve might have to be a certain placement on the wall, a certain depth in the wall, depending on if it's one handle, two handles, it affects where you're where your plumbing goes. 00:52:38:01 - 00:52:51:18 Speaker 1 You know, all your rough ends are affected by that, by that one valve. And so, you know, getting that selection late can not only throw off the schedule, but it can cause you to have to go back and rip out work that you've already done and redo it. And honestly, that's where a lot of builders hit people with change orders. 00:52:51:20 - 00:53:04:02 Speaker 1 There's like, well, we put our plumbing in at our standard place and now you pick this weird valve out too late. And so now we have to rip it out and do it again. Yeah. It's not really the homeowners fault. It's, you know, your fault for not planning it. 00:53:04:04 - 00:53:27:11 Speaker 2 And you know, you can work off templates a bit. You know, whether it's a tub template. Yeah, a cut out for a cooktop. But we've been burned there too. So it's nice to have that, that standalone tub on side or whatever tub. So you know exactly where the plumbing goes. You have that range on site. You know exactly what size to cut out because you're looking at the physical material, not mandatory, but it gives me a little peace of mind. 00:53:27:12 - 00:53:45:15 Speaker 1 Spec sheets change. We've learned that the hard way over the years. It's like we've got an appliance spec sheet before that says they're, opening for a built in refrigerator. Has to be this size. And then we get it there, and they're like, oh, well, that spec sheet you had was was based on last year's version. And we made this one little tweet, tweet to the model. 00:53:45:15 - 00:53:52:05 Speaker 1 And now that that opening is the the eighth of an inch different or whatever, you know, so that those things happen. 00:53:52:07 - 00:53:53:04 Speaker 2 Oh for sure. 00:53:53:06 - 00:54:00:13 Speaker 1 All right. Well any other thoughts that you have on on people, things that people need to do to plan their project for success? 00:54:00:13 - 00:54:25:01 Speaker 2 I guess one of the thing I'd like to touch on just a bit is, you know, on finding the right contractor. I think something that's important, it's hard to do. I know this, and if you've ever looked for a contractor, you understand. But I think one thing that's really good is looking at the the national organizations like the National Homebuilders Association, our local Greater Houston Builders Association, Nara National Kitchen Bath Association, all these groups, they want to elevate the industry. 00:54:25:01 - 00:54:44:00 Speaker 2 They want to make it better. So there's a heavy focus on education. And that might be a good place for some people to look at starting there. Because if, if a contractor is going to take his precious time and his resources and go invest that in education, it's not only for himself. This is for the client to provide a better experience, to be a more valuable resource. 00:54:44:02 - 00:54:49:20 Speaker 2 So when you find that guy, that may be somebody or gal or somebody that you want to talk to a little further. 00:54:49:22 - 00:55:12:13 Speaker 1 Yeah, it shows you that they care enough about quality and about doing the job right, that they're they're going to invest their time and their money in joining the organization, paying for the training classes, because that's enough adds up. I mean, we have a pretty healthy line item on our company budget every year for, association memberships, training conferences, all that kind of stuff. 00:55:12:13 - 00:55:26:17 Speaker 1 Right. And so companies who, invest there, what would be their profit that they're putting into these programs and these associations that just shows you that those companies care about what about the product, the product they're putting out. Right. 00:55:26:19 - 00:55:45:07 Speaker 2 Right. And it's not always fun to take these classes. Some of them are interesting, but, you know, a trip to Mexico would be way more fun than, you know, going to who knows where to sit in the classroom for three days. But it kind of identifies the level of person you're dealing with. I think they have everybody's best interest in mind, not just themselves. 00:55:45:09 - 00:55:54:04 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, learning about building codes and new changes to the electrical code is not the most fun class to go sit in, but it's really important. 00:55:54:06 - 00:55:54:18 Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. 00:55:54:23 - 00:56:13:23 Speaker 1 You know, there was a change, a year or two ago where the, the code started requiring outlets at both ends of a kitchen island and a certain distance from the countertops. And the code's been for a long time, but you had that power on the island. But. But it changed a little bit that it has to be. 00:56:14:02 - 00:56:30:16 Speaker 1 And I'm going to say this wrong. I'm sure it has to be on the ends of the island, has to be a certain distance from the top of the countertop. It has to be accessible from a certain distance within the island. And that code took effect. And a lot of builders didn't know that. And so they got to their final inspection. 00:56:30:16 - 00:56:48:21 Speaker 1 And the inspectors like, where's your outlets? And he's like, oh, I got I got this one over here. The inspectors are like, no, that's not, that's not the code. You know, that's that's the old code. So sitting through that, that boring electrical code class can help you prevent something that's going to hold up your project months down the road. 00:56:49:02 - 00:57:01:01 Speaker 2 I think that code just changed again to yeah, I think you don't have to have, outlets in the, in the island anymore, but you have to have run power. You have to have power run somewhere in the island so you can add outlets at some point. 00:57:01:03 - 00:57:19:20 Speaker 1 See, I should have gone to the the latest code class and learned that. Yep, island outlets are always a, a tricky thing to to deal with, especially when you get into a kitchen where people want like really nice waterfall ins on their on their island, with the other clean stone coming all the way down to the bottom. 00:57:19:20 - 00:57:38:06 Speaker 1 But you have to have some power somewhere. Sometimes you do get creative with where you're you're putting that right. Yeah. We've done like, pop about what's on top. We've done outlets in the place of drawers on the on, on the sink side and things hidden up under the lip. There's a million ways to do it, but you have to get creative on stuff like that. 00:57:38:08 - 00:57:56:12 Speaker 2 Yeah, that's one of the good things about the time we live in. There's no end, options like you can in with outlets or lights or countertops or pullouts, whatever it is, anywhere in the building process, you can get overwhelmed. So, you know, that's kind of a double edged sword is a good and bad thing. 00:57:56:13 - 00:58:12:23 Speaker 1 Sometimes I wonder if building 40 years ago wouldn't have been, you know, a lot, harder because there weren't as many resources and you couldn't just pull stuff up on your phone, or if it'd been way easier because all these options didn't didn't exist. There's just, like, way more straightforward. 00:58:13:01 - 00:58:27:00 Speaker 2 In the in the clients are real or the homeowners are really informed about certain things too. You know, they'll research something. And I had I know nothing about it. And that's okay. We don't have to know everything. But, it's interesting to see somebody dive into something and then they can educate you on it as well. 00:58:27:02 - 00:58:39:00 Speaker 1 Clients are way more educated now than they ever have them for sure. Between just the TV shows and the resources on YouTube and you can geek out on anything that you want to geek out on. 00:58:39:04 - 00:58:40:13 Speaker 2 Yeah, for sure. 00:58:40:15 - 00:58:46:16 Speaker 1 Including learning about how to undertake a better and more efficient remodeling project. Right? 00:58:46:19 - 00:58:48:03 Speaker 2 Absolutely. 00:58:48:05 - 00:58:56:18 Speaker 1 All right. Well, Randy, thanks for joining us today. Appreciate you being here. And tell everyone how they can find you if they want to talk to you about doing a remodeling project here in Houston. 00:58:56:20 - 00:59:11:12 Speaker 2 So we're super home renovations. The website is superior home renovations for texas.com. And then I think Instagram and Facebook are superior home renovations. But if you get to the website, you should be able to find us from there. 00:59:11:13 - 00:59:21:10 Speaker 1 All right. And Danielle will definitely put some links on our, YouTube video and our podcast person, all that stuff so people can can find you. So thanks for being here today. Yeah. 00:59:21:10 - 00:59:22:05 Speaker 2 Thank you. Appreciate it. 00:59:22:11 - 00:59:33:23 Speaker 1 All right. And thank you all for joining us today on this episode of the All Partnership Podcast. I hope to see you next time. Return a little bit. My singing won't be included. Don't worry. Yeah. 00:59:33:23 - 00:59:35:09 Speaker 2 You got to include that. 00:59:35:11 - 00:59:59:14 Speaker 1 If you found this helpful. Enjoy listening. Please support us by liking and subscribing here on your podcast platform, and also join us on our YouTube channel. We want to continue to bring you high quality content and expert guests, and your support truly helps us to continue this journey. If you have any questions for me or my guests or any feedback for us, you can email us at podcast at your project shepherd.com. 00:59:59:16 - 01:00:00:10 Speaker 1 Thanks again.