00:00:06:21 - 00:00:27:07 Speaker 1 Welcome, and thank you for joining us on on your project Shepherd Construction Podcast. My name is Curtis Lawson with Shepherd Construction Advisors and along with my industry expert friends, I am here to guide you through these four key components of a successful project, which are demonstrated by the simple drawing of a house. The Foundation is proper planning. The left wall is your team. 00:00:27:14 - 00:00:50:19 Speaker 1 The right wall is communication and the roof is proper execution. Have all four of these components in place and your project will succeed. Whether you're building or remodeling a custom home, or if you're an architect or designer looking for inspiration, or maybe you're just interested in building science and high performance construction, you're in the right place. Please help us further our mission here by tapping that follow or subscribe button. 00:00:50:19 - 00:01:16:26 Speaker 1 Push that notification bell so that you know when our new episodes drop every week. And now let's get to today's interview. All right. Welcome to this episode of the Your Project Shepherd podcast. I am joined today by Megan Carson with guided. Well. Megan is a mobile consultant in Norwalk, Connecticut, and we connected, pretty recently on Instagram. 00:01:16:28 - 00:01:32:22 Speaker 1 She posts a lot of good information, and I'm not sure if, you saw one of mine or I saw a post years, but we can't, connect it on Instagram and have been messaging, and, this is a topic I thought would be a great thing for our listeners to hear. So, Megan, welcome to the show. 00:01:32:24 - 00:01:35:25 Speaker 2 Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. 00:01:35:28 - 00:01:44:19 Speaker 1 Why don't you tell us a little bit about what the about what guided well, does and kind of your history and how you got into this and what it is exactly that you do. 00:01:44:21 - 00:02:07:09 Speaker 2 Yeah. So I am a IEP or, indoor environmental professional. I am a certified mold inspector, and I offer consulting services through guided. Well, my company, virtually and in person. So I just want to make that clear to. I'm, I'm located in Norwalk, but I work with people, you know, throughout the US, and I've even worked with some international clients as well. 00:02:07:12 - 00:02:38:12 Speaker 2 And really, what I do, or I should say my client base, predominantly is, is people who have ongoing issues in the home. They've usually had multiple people in the home, whether that's mold inspectors or dental home inspectors or other, tradesmen in, and they're still having either recurrent health issues or just problems with the performance of their home, and determining what and why those are so, I do that through, a questionnaire. 00:02:38:13 - 00:03:07:03 Speaker 2 We start with a questionnaire. That's pretty extensive. And so a lot of questions on the history of the home, how it's performing, the health of the occupants in it. And, we kind of go from there with, sessions, going deeper into what I identify through the questionnaires. I also go over any, inspection, reporting or previous remediation, scopes or reporting that they've had, and really anything pertaining to the home. 00:03:07:05 - 00:03:31:00 Speaker 2 I, I want to see I want to look over. Usually it also includes, either a full walkthrough virtually of the home or I'm. I love to go in person. To really, thoroughly see what's going on. And then I help them determine the path forward. And where we go from here. Sometimes it's a difficult conversation, you know? 00:03:31:03 - 00:03:45:25 Speaker 2 But ultimately, the people generally who find me are really, really desperate for answers. In terms of why they're not feeling well or their house is having repetitive issues that they thought they fixed. 00:03:45:28 - 00:03:58:12 Speaker 1 So if someone's had several different inspectors out, you know, why can't all of these other people find these issues? You know what? What is it that these people miss? 00:03:58:15 - 00:03:59:21 Speaker 2 Gosh. 00:03:59:23 - 00:04:01:15 Speaker 1 Some common things they miss. 00:04:01:17 - 00:04:24:28 Speaker 2 Sure. So, I mean, just like, medicine might be just jointed, right? We have our PCP, we have our orthopedic. We have all of these parceled out, people who are giving their opinions on very specific things. So, like an Hvac technician, for instance, a plumber. We have all of these people kind of coming into our home, but often they're not kind of thinking as the home. 00:04:25:00 - 00:04:53:17 Speaker 2 As this one performing micro environment. So it's very disjointed. I find and even with mold inspection, just like I know you've had some great, general home inspectors on, you get what you pay for, and not all mold inspectors are created equal. Unfortunately, a lot of them think that it's sufficient enough to do air samples in three rooms of the house, and that's enough to diagnose the problem. 00:04:53:23 - 00:05:17:29 Speaker 2 Unfortunately, that's just not true. And people again, who generally find me have found that out the hard way. They've had sampling done. They've had testing done. And every time it's kind of coming back negative. But their health provider or their gut and intuition is kind of guiding them and telling them that mold or a microbial issue in the home is the root cause of kind of their symptomatology. 00:05:18:02 - 00:05:45:24 Speaker 2 But they have this data that says otherwise. So kind of they get to this point where they're like, what do we do? You know, if this isn't it, what is? But then they're also being educated that certain practices that mold inspectors specifically perform might not be sufficient to, again, diagnose the problems going on. So, you know, often I see missed things on the exterior. 00:05:46:01 - 00:06:24:05 Speaker 2 So, like, envelope issues are huge and they're really hard to diagnose. Because they're in wall cavities. You know, and we can get into this later. But I don't think that people understand that all materials of our home have a life, which includes the house wrap or a water resistant barrier. Our windows, you know, all of this stuff, that we often take for granted, but can can contribute to these issues and often does, especially in these issues that are really hard to find and aren't necessarily being found by somebody who's going into the home and looking at just the finished surfaces. 00:06:24:08 - 00:06:38:12 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, these items have a life. And then they also require maintenance too. So if they're not not maintaining some of those openings, you know, there's all kinds of potential entry points for their water, air, all those things that contribute. Right. 00:06:38:14 - 00:06:39:24 Speaker 2 Absolutely. 00:06:39:26 - 00:06:52:02 Speaker 1 So what what other tests? You know, you mentioned that the mold inspectors typically just do air samples in 2 or 3 spaces in the house. What other tests are available that that you utilize? 00:06:52:04 - 00:07:13:12 Speaker 2 So that would be like a standard mold inspection. That would be what I would consider. Somebody goes on Google and type in mold inspector and that's what they're getting, in my opinion. And in my training, a thorough mold inspection is far, far and above. Beyond just coming into the house and taking air samples. It should start with a thorough history of the home. 00:07:13:14 - 00:07:32:21 Speaker 2 You know, any historical water damage information is really important for a mold inspector to know. Especially if materials have been replaced. So we're not seeing any visual signs of, you know, what may have happened to 5 or 10 years ago, but may not have been dried out correctly or taken care of correctly. So that's that's huge. 00:07:32:21 - 00:08:01:27 Speaker 2 Doing a, an investigation, a verbal investigation of the home followed by a full 360 exterior. Look, I love when inspectors are willing to get on the roof and, look at the penetrations up there, too, because they're super important. Obviously, we can see certain things from attic spaces. Depending on accessibility, though, you know, having both an attic view and a roof view might be really helpful. 00:08:02:00 - 00:08:29:04 Speaker 2 But checking out, you know, all the siding, if it's has good integrity, if the gutters are blocked, if, you know, the softening looks obscured. What the grading and sloping is, how close vegetation is to the property? And a big one is, where sprinklers are located. And if they're going into or they're pointed towards or cladding, which is huge. 00:08:29:06 - 00:09:01:09 Speaker 2 Yep. So and then comes the interior. And then doing a full 360 all spaces, which includes living spaces, but is also basements, crawl spaces, attics. The entirety of your home should be inspected. So it's really it's exactly. Absolutely. Every, every square inch, that is reasonably accessible should be looked through. And then your mold inspector, should determine what sampling is appropriate. 00:09:01:12 - 00:09:23:14 Speaker 2 Now, I'm not 100% opposed to air samples. I just don't think that they should be the only, validation metric we use. They do have some significance. I definitely like to see an outdoor sample that helps us kind of determine, interior samples. What's coming potentially from the exterior to the interior? Farms are a big one. 00:09:23:16 - 00:09:57:25 Speaker 2 If you live near or on a working farm. Mold results can be hugely skewed. So if you're not taking that outdoor sample to see what's in the outdoor environment, you could, you know, again, potentially think or determine you have a massive problem. And we're just getting transparency. So er samples are part of the investigation. But then anything that for instance like I said with historical water damage, if the homeowner says to us, for instance, that they just dried drywall out, which in my opinion, drywall cannot be dried out, it needs to be removed. 00:09:57:27 - 00:10:14:16 Speaker 2 If it's been wet, and thoroughly wet. That might be a place where I want to take a cavity sample. So that's an air sample taken in a cavity. And it's same thing. It just draws the air out from that cavity space. Now, air samples are interesting. And and this is important to get into, too. 00:10:14:17 - 00:10:40:27 Speaker 2 Air samples are genus species or. Excuse me, genus level test. So it's going to tell you whether it's Aspergillus, Aspergillus, Penicillium stuckey botrytis. But it's not going to go into Aspergillus acacias or Aspergillus. So Lloyd's for instance that's the species level. So I like doing a litany of tests that include both. So we're not only seeing the genus, but we're also seeing species levels. 00:10:40:29 - 00:11:08:09 Speaker 2 So getting back to it. Air samples, cavity samples, if they're warranted. Tape lift samples. So surface samples, tape lift samples, and swab samples, especially if we're seeing overt mold or, a colony. To kind of see what that is, is helpful and often important or things that, we think look potentially even like dust or people will say, oh, that's just dirt. 00:11:08:11 - 00:11:33:12 Speaker 2 I cannot tell you how many samples I've gotten back. Where. It's a lot more than dust and dirt. So the last component could be an army, which is air Army. And it stands for Environmental Relative Muddiness index. It's a Swiffer, a cloth that collects dust. So dust is the vehicle in which mold really travels through our environment? 00:11:33:15 - 00:11:53:28 Speaker 2 Unless there are, there's a huge concentration of spores and there's a huge kind of, colony that's in a, space that's not being obscured. So that's why we collect the dust. And that is a PCR test. So that's a DNA test. It's it's not a test that's relying on microscopy, by a microbiologist, which the other tests are. 00:11:54:01 - 00:12:18:13 Speaker 2 And that's why those are genus based tests. Because we're identifying them visually under a microscope. And then doing calculations on counts. The Ernie test is doing, PCR tests on the whatever species we're finding. And that's showing up in the dust. So it's 36 different species, 26 species that are heavily correlated to indoor water damage. 00:12:18:13 - 00:13:04:08 Speaker 2 Mold. And then the rest that are predominantly outdoor molds. And what's showing up, tells us different things. So it just briefly about the Army. The EPA created it. And they unfortunately largely discredited it discredited it in the inspection community. There's a lot of theories as to why, but, generally speaking, I, I think it's it's reasonable to believe that they started getting, some lawsuits due to this metric that the EPA created, quantifying the amount of mold in a space, saying, and correlating with it, correlating it with a score. 00:13:04:11 - 00:13:26:06 Speaker 2 So that's part of the Army, too. It gives you a score. And different zones, if you will, of, the Muddiness index. There are big problems, though, unfortunately, with the algorithm of of how we get the score. So that's the last thing I look at on an army. I'm looking at what species are showing up and in what concentrations. 00:13:26:08 - 00:14:04:23 Speaker 2 And again, that tells me a lot about if we potentially have a rampant humidity issue. If there is, if it is looking like there are water damaged and ongoing active water damage sources. Or there's just, sometimes it's indicative of an Hvac contamination. So a lot can be extrapolated from that. But getting back to the main question, for comprehensive, testing approach is what I recommend and what I like to see in mold inspections, and that will yield the best results to really find out what's going on. 00:14:04:25 - 00:14:20:23 Speaker 1 I imagine if you have your house thoroughly cleaned or if you clean your house personally on a regular basis, wipe down all the surfaces. Really good. Then might the Army test may not be as effective because all the services are getting wiped off all the time, right? You find nooks and crannies where things are not being cleaned as well. 00:14:20:23 - 00:14:22:00 Speaker 1 Or what? What do you do? 00:14:22:02 - 00:14:41:12 Speaker 2 So the administration of the test, it could be done. So this is interesting because it can be a consumer test. So you can order it yourself or you can have it done, in the scope of a mold inspection. Meaning the, you know, the inspector is going to do it for you. If if I have clients doing it themselves, I do have specific recommendations. 00:14:41:13 - 00:15:10:02 Speaker 2 So you're absolutely right in terms of the data we get from, something like a dust sample. Often it can be a mix of historic dust and new dust. Depending on the circumstance. Depends on what I might recommend clients to do. So if we're looking for more current dust, and kind of really want to see what's going on right now, I'll have clients do a full almost, to the level of fine particulate cleaning. 00:15:10:02 - 00:15:34:22 Speaker 2 So that's using microfiber cloth remove, Hepa vacuuming as removing as much particulate as possible and then allowing anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks for dust to accrue. So you would then cut down your cleaning by about 50%, to allow that. And then that can give us good insight into what's circulating right now as opposed to wiping the top of, for instance, a hung cabinet that we've never dusted. 00:15:34:24 - 00:15:37:19 Speaker 2 That sample could be as old as your home. 00:15:37:25 - 00:15:41:14 Speaker 1 If it's under my my daughter's bed or something like that. That's never been cleaned for sure. 00:15:41:16 - 00:15:46:11 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah. Give teenagers rooms right. 00:15:46:13 - 00:16:00:11 Speaker 1 So one thing that I. That I like to tell people too, is like the, the, the first and easiest test that you can do is just the, the smell test. Like if it's, if it smells musty, you probably have an issue. Right. 00:16:00:13 - 00:16:32:15 Speaker 2 Excellent point. And I have kind of saying yeah if it's if you smell it, it's there. Find out where. And I mean that's per EPA, right. They say that, musty smell is indicative of an active problem, and that musty smell is mold that has an active water source and is growing because what we smell is actually, called MVO seeds or microbial VOCs that they're off gassing in their digestion of organic material. 00:16:32:18 - 00:16:56:18 Speaker 1 Yeah. And so here in Houston and I'm sure it's, it's probably similar in your area too. You know there's certain times of year like, like right now and here in Houston, in the summer our AC or AC systems are running all the time, and especially in older homes that have really hot attics. And then they have a metal AC register on the ceiling inside their space. 00:16:56:18 - 00:17:15:25 Speaker 1 That's really cold. That that ring around that AC register stays moist all the time. And so a lot of these homes around here will always smell musty in the summer. And that's because that's a great place that's going to harbor mold. Growth is right around all those AC registers in the house. 00:17:15:27 - 00:17:38:00 Speaker 2 Absolutely. And there's AC repairs, drywall, there's insulation. That just is keeping and retaining that moisture. So totally I see it commonly, seasonally, where we have upticks specifically in symptoms for people. And it's usually when the AC is turned on or when the heat is turned on. For similar, you know, situations. 00:17:38:02 - 00:17:52:02 Speaker 1 Yeah. If you peel off that, peel off, if you take the screws out and drop your AC grill out of the ceiling, it's very common to see a black ring around the inside of that. And some of that may be dust, but definitely some of that's going to be mold mildew. Right? 00:17:52:04 - 00:17:53:08 Speaker 2 Absolutely. 00:17:53:10 - 00:18:22:15 Speaker 1 And the same thing with with light switches. If you have a house that, that has some, some, pathways for air filtration and that's coming into the wall cavity, it's going to find the path of least resistance. And often that is around a electrical receptacle or a switch. And so the switch plate cover will often have a ring of mold around it or on the backside of it where that that air is passing through the wall. 00:18:22:16 - 00:18:28:05 Speaker 1 It's finding its way through that switch or that or that plug. So that's a great indication as well. 00:18:28:07 - 00:18:38:27 Speaker 2 Absolutely. And we can get into Hvac now or later. But they are a big issue in my business. Whether they're primary or secondary sources. 00:18:38:29 - 00:18:42:28 Speaker 1 Yeah. So let's talk about that now. So what are your what are your thoughts on that. 00:18:43:01 - 00:19:20:25 Speaker 2 Yeah. So I mean I believe toner kind of touched on this. And he was like, you know, aces are not the problem. But unfortunately I disagree. I, I see them, commonly being issues for various reasons. Right. Number one, we usually put Hvac in non condition spaces. And just like you were talking about in terms of condensation, whether that's in a garage space, a basement space or an attic space, we're having huge temperature differentials and swings, on a usually metal ducting that's condensing. 00:19:20:27 - 00:19:47:08 Speaker 2 Whether we're using heat or cooling, depending on the season. So that's huge. I can't stress enough how I wish it were not common practice to to put these, these units in these types of spaces. Because it's just becomes it can become so problematic. And then additionally, in cold climates I've seen I see commonly humidifiers. 00:19:47:10 - 00:20:20:23 Speaker 2 So, you know, the one thing we're trying to avoid vapor, in our duct where we're putting in there. And that becomes a massive issue, if not immediately, certainly over time. And then I'm seeing a lot, unfortunately, with air RVs or fresh air intakes. That are especially in hot, humid climates that aren't, thoughtfully installed or are installed with the intention of being dehumidification devices, which they're not. 00:20:20:25 - 00:20:42:03 Speaker 1 No. They're not. And, I think the toner would agree with you on the, on the AC stuff, actually, you know, his his issues. Not in my issues, not really with the actual, you know, we don't believe that it's always, not. Or this, Sorry. Back up. We don't believe it's never the problem. It's it's the installation. 00:20:42:03 - 00:21:11:03 Speaker 1 It's the use of it. It's it's installed. Right? So totally agree that, with that, with that unit is in a hot, humid attic, or in the winter. And you get a furnace in a in a cold basement. But we definitely see the solvent. In fact, toner and I were in a house last week, and we went in the attic, and the top of the AC plenum was just covered in mold because it that it was it was it was so cold and the attic was so hot and the water was just condensing right there. 00:21:11:06 - 00:21:15:04 Speaker 1 And it was it was also rusting out as well. So, 00:21:15:06 - 00:21:20:02 Speaker 2 Rust is another great signifier, right? Because it signifies water. Yeah. 00:21:20:05 - 00:21:45:26 Speaker 1 So getting those things out of those spaces and getting them into conditioned spaces, which is what we're doing now on new construction. I think the struggle is, on, on older homes that we're seeing a lot of these issues or on homes that were built kind of before these changes have taken place, where we're doing more spray foam, we're doing more, you know, non ventilated attics and things like that are more sealed, sealed attic, enclosures. 00:21:45:29 - 00:22:12:24 Speaker 2 So just briefly, some other things I see specifically in newer homes is that and more specifically in like track build where they are not bringing exterior cooling or dehumidification, they're turning on the system. At the end of their finish of the home after it's been dried and a ton of drywall sawdust. And we didn't get into this, but you know what allows mold to grow? 00:22:12:26 - 00:22:31:08 Speaker 2 Number one is a spore needs to be present, right? So by the definition of how we, we build homes from open to close, our homes are already inoculated with some amount of spore. Right? Beyond that, we need an organic material, so a food source for it. And then water, which can be or a moisture source. 00:22:31:08 - 00:22:56:16 Speaker 2 I should say, because that can be anything from high, high sustained humidity to leaks over bulk water like floods or condensation. So when we think about the build process of the system, kind of getting all this contamination sucked in there, probably kind of turning it on and off when they're in and out of the building, right, to keep the workers comfortable. 00:22:56:18 - 00:23:05:08 Speaker 2 We're also getting these huge temperature swings with organic material in an enclosed space, and it's just a recipe for disaster, unfortunately. 00:23:05:10 - 00:23:29:09 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, our our standard procedure and this is in toners, spec sheets that he sends out for the, for the builders that he works with are as soon as the house gets dried in to get some demystification going on in the house and portable humidification, but then also turn on a temporary AC system that's going to run 24 over seven until the final AC system gets turned on. 00:23:29:12 - 00:23:53:18 Speaker 1 So we're, you know, it's it's keeping the workers more productive, which is great, which means your job is going to go faster, but it's also going to help dry your house out. And it's also going to help prevent mold growth. And by, by not using your ultimately, you know, final AC system. We're not going to suck all that construction debris into the system by running it too early. 00:23:53:21 - 00:24:09:20 Speaker 1 So, you know, at the end, this is something that I used to do, I admit. But, you know, we used to turn on the kind of the final house AC system as soon as we could and just change the filters out on a regular basis. But there's still a lot that makes it past those filters. 00:24:09:23 - 00:24:19:21 Speaker 1 It's. I would say it's better than nothing, but it's, it's not as good as having a completely separate temporary AC system that's going to help dry the structure out and keep it comfortable. 00:24:19:23 - 00:24:50:05 Speaker 2 For sure. For sure. And I love that that I, I hope that becomes standard practice. Because I can't tell you how many, new builds I see. And I mean, I see a lot of other issues, but, specifically just, damaged due to this debris. Right. So outside of that, and we can get into this, too, is would be the maintenance of these systems like you touched on and, you know, even people not changing their filters are not going to change their air filters is huge, right? 00:24:50:07 - 00:25:13:18 Speaker 2 Not having their Hvac service, not having their condenser lines flushed. Not looking into that blower motor to see if it's accumulated a ton of dust, which raises the chances for mold, and mold being spread throughout your system. We kind of, liken the Hvac system to the lungs of the whole. You know, if that's not healthy, it's really hard to have, a healthy house. 00:25:13:20 - 00:25:30:00 Speaker 1 And all this stuff has side benefits, too. It's not just the mold. And, you know, the healthy house. You know, if you're if your, system is full of dust and you go to turn your furnace on in the winter, that's a fire hazard, right? So, I mean, there's other benefits to this stuff. Other than just being health healthy. 00:25:30:00 - 00:25:44:01 Speaker 1 It's just some, some common sense stuff that you should be doing for your home. It's amazing how many houses that I go into where they haven't changed that air filter in a year. And it's so full. It's just, you know, the system is struggling to. 00:25:44:07 - 00:25:44:26 Speaker 2 Even suck air. 00:25:44:26 - 00:26:04:24 Speaker 1 And yeah, and the first thing I do is I walk in there and pull that filter out, and I just set it aside and just tell me, hey, I'm putting this aside right now so you don't reinstall it and you go change it today. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's huge. It's unbelievable how nasty air filters are allowed to to get for sure. 00:26:04:24 - 00:26:21:03 Speaker 2 I mean, just like with I think, I think every home should have a maintenance cadence. But that's a big one. And a great way. Relatively low cost to kind of protect your system. And like you said, get the benefit, get the benefit of better performance of the system. 00:26:21:05 - 00:26:44:21 Speaker 1 It's amazing how how many of these topics really all tie together. You know, I've had episodes where we have home maintenance people on talking about the importance of maintaining the caulking and the siding and the sprinkler heads, you know, maintained away from, I mean, like, it's all the same stuff that you're talking about, how that affects the home's health, that your health and mold, but it also affects so many different things. 00:26:44:21 - 00:26:51:21 Speaker 1 You know, the warranty on the house, the you know, the longevity, the materials, just I mean, it's all tied together. 00:26:51:23 - 00:27:11:08 Speaker 2 Absolutely. Absolutely. And ultimately, we all want to enjoy our homes, I think. And I don't mean to kind of go into a tangent on this, but I think I don't know about you, but I remember my grandparents, you know, the weekends were kind of for house maintenance, right? My grandfather was up on a ladder on the roof making sure the shingles were good. 00:27:11:10 - 00:27:38:26 Speaker 2 Picking leaves out of the gutters. And now, I'm not sure where we lost that conference, of that generational care of our homes and being good shepherds and good caretakers of our homes. Especially with the way we're turning over homes. Right? Like home ownership, anywhere from 2 to 8 years. And then we're moving on. Just so much of what we do in terms of the maintenance has great ripple effects on all of these areas we talked about. 00:27:38:26 - 00:27:44:13 Speaker 2 But for the next homeowner as well, and the preservation, and health of the home. 00:27:44:16 - 00:28:03:05 Speaker 1 We've talked about it talked about that issue a lot. And I think a lot of it is just the convenience society that we live in. Where we we expect somebody else to do a lot of these things for us. Or where we're willing just to kind of put it off and put it off and let it be somebody else's problem. 00:28:03:08 - 00:28:27:29 Speaker 1 But yeah, it's like our, you know, our, our grandparents used to get out and change their own oil on the car and they do all the home maintenance, the car maintenance, all this stuff every weekend. And now we're and part of it is just busyness too, because like so many families are out running to baseball games and gymnastics and all this other stuff on the weekends, and they just don't spend the time to do the things in the home that they used to do. 00:28:28:01 - 00:28:48:10 Speaker 2 And I'm, I'm not opposed to outsourcing as long as you outsource. Right. But usually somebody has to be there to receive the tech. Which still we don't want to do. You know, it's like scheduling these things, even if we're well intentioned to get it done. It's like, oh, well, somebody has to be at the house for 2 to 4 hours while we receive this person and while they're doing the work. 00:28:48:10 - 00:29:03:23 Speaker 2 And, I just can't tell you how much, especially in my realm, that it's worth it, and how much it pays off, for not only the health of the home, but the health of the occupants, and the longevity of the home. And what we're passing on. 00:29:03:25 - 00:29:38:01 Speaker 1 I want to change gears a little bit and talk about mold sensitivities and health issues that are related to that. And am I right in saying that some people are just more susceptible or more sensitive to dealing with mold issues? And oftentimes that's very young people, very old people, people with compromised immune systems. You know, but at some point, all of us are going to fall in that category, or we're going to have somebody in our home that falls into that category, whether it's our kids or our parents or us personally as we age. 00:29:38:03 - 00:29:39:16 Speaker 1 What are your thoughts on that? 00:29:39:18 - 00:30:12:24 Speaker 2 Well, I'm happy other than that last part, because even in, you know, inspection school where we're taught that any, you know, high amount of mold can impact the health of even the most robust. Okay. So, yes, there definitely are people who are more sensitive, whether that's the immunocompromised, or children and women especially, they, they tend to be preferentially, kind of the canaries, if you will, or the first responders to environmental, toxicants and environmental exposures and specifically mold and mycotoxins. 00:30:12:26 - 00:30:45:19 Speaker 2 But really again, I just want to hit home that anyone can be infected or not infected, but affected by it. And there are various reasons why and mold is partially so insidious because it often happens little by little, and over time, and we assign it to getting older, having young children or being stressed. And we just kind of allow, allow, allow this low level sense of not feeling well, getting more and more symptoms. 00:30:45:22 - 00:31:18:13 Speaker 2 Whether that's over the course of a few months or a few years. And don't connect it to our home environment. And I think specifically 2020 was kind of a turning point because people were stuck in their homes. They were not able to leave. So we as clinicians and as inspectors, consultants saw, a huge intake or, uptick of people dealing with issues that we decided were likely mold and then were confirmed with testing. 00:31:18:15 - 00:31:43:19 Speaker 2 And I think that that's why mold awareness is kind of growing. So in a way that's been helpful. But, again, anyone can be affected by it. And there are a few reasons why I want to go into mold specifically. So we have three types. So we have allergenic mold, oxygenic mold and pathogenic mold. So allergenic molds are exactly what you think. 00:31:43:19 - 00:32:12:07 Speaker 2 They they're the molds that, typically produce allergenic like symptoms. Itchy eyes, runny nose, sinusitis, things like that. And then we have talks, genic molds. Those are molds that are capable of producing mycotoxins. And mycotoxins are defensive chemicals produced by molds, generally to protect their territory. And we're if mycotoxins are in the picture, that anyone can be affected. 00:32:12:14 - 00:32:34:22 Speaker 2 And that's really important to know. You know, spore is different from mycotoxins. And this byproduct that we're talking about, we can get into that in a little bit. But then the third mold, category would be pathogenic. And those molds can act. And in fact they can cause disease, and infection in hosts. So aspergillosis would be one. 00:32:34:24 - 00:32:45:17 Speaker 2 I'm not sure if you've heard of that. It's, it's a kind of a lung infection, produced by the species, or the genus Aspergillus. 00:32:45:20 - 00:33:00:25 Speaker 1 The one that we had that we had the big scare about years ago was what was it called, black mold. That term gets thrown around a lot. Where did that term come from? And is that I assume that refers to a very specific type of mold, right. 00:33:00:27 - 00:33:25:14 Speaker 2 Great question. Yes. And I talk about this often. Most people assume that the color of the mold dictates its, ability to harm us. It's that's unfortunately also not true. Most people assume that if it's black mold, it's black mold. And when we say black mold, we're referring to stocky buttress. So that kind of it actually started in about the 1700s, and it was, in a horse barn. 00:33:25:16 - 00:33:49:03 Speaker 2 And all the horses were dying and they couldn't figure out why. And it was ultimately, correlated with the hay. And what was growing on the hay was stocky buttress. And stocky buttress is a oxygenic mold, okay. It produces really nasty mycotoxins called tri coat designs. These mycotoxins have a variety of health and organ system effects. 00:33:49:05 - 00:34:12:16 Speaker 2 So stocky buttress and toxic black mold is definitely one, that you want to be on the lookout for and don't want in your indoor environment. But it's not the only one. Many other molds have the ability to produce mycotoxins. Though they might not be as, extreme in their, immediate ability to harm. They can be just as harmful. 00:34:12:18 - 00:34:40:02 Speaker 2 Hepatic toxic. Nephron toxic, which is kidney, you know, toxic. So affecting our genes. And the data is out there. You know, we have a ton of studies, not only, through animal husbandry, but on, on humans, and the effects that these metabolites have in our bodies. So, toxic black mold, stocky buttress is, again, something you absolutely should be concerned about if it's confirmed to be in your indoor environment. 00:34:40:04 - 00:34:45:07 Speaker 2 But there are many, many others. And they come in all different colors. 00:34:45:09 - 00:34:48:03 Speaker 1 And there's other molds that are black in color. So just. 00:34:48:05 - 00:34:48:23 Speaker 2 Exactly. 00:34:48:28 - 00:34:52:02 Speaker 1 Just because it's black doesn't mean it's sticky borders, right? 00:34:52:04 - 00:35:07:00 Speaker 2 Exactly. And you can't make that determination. Even as a mold inspector, I can't definitively ever tell you that's Aspergillus or dermo. Yeah. It has to go to a lab. It has to be tested, to tell us. So. Yeah. 00:35:07:03 - 00:35:20:14 Speaker 1 Yeah, I've heard numerous builders over the years say, oh, that's just the pink one. It's okay. Don't worry about that. One will just wipe it off. You know, that's that's that's the old school mentality of oh, we're we're only worried about the black ones. 00:35:20:16 - 00:35:46:09 Speaker 2 Exactly. And unfortunately, that is such that's part of the misconception, right? That again, I, I and others in this space are trying to, kind of combat by saying, you know, just because it's black doesn't necessarily mean it's toxic, but also just because it's another color doesn't mean it's not toxic. And we really need the only way to determine that is with testing. 00:35:46:11 - 00:36:03:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. Do you get into any other, aside from mold, do you get into into dealing with any other, chemical sensitivities and determining, the causes of other health issues from, you know, off gassing products or things like that? 00:36:03:25 - 00:36:31:07 Speaker 2 Absolutely. That's certainly part of my screen. Because sometimes, like, especially in new homes, that weren't necessarily built with, sensitive individuals in mind or like from a health based perspective, have a ton of VOCs, and that can look very similar in presentation to, a mold toxicity or a mold illness presentation. So, yes. Another big one would be natural gas. 00:36:31:09 - 00:36:56:26 Speaker 2 You know, natural gas leaks can cause a host of low lying, issues that just like with mold, we are kind of ascribing a way to various things. Right. And has a lot of crossover with symptoms of mold exposure. Sometimes it's one, sometimes it's both. But getting into spaces where you can see, you know, is the flu color attached? 00:36:56:29 - 00:37:21:13 Speaker 2 You know, is it open? I can't recommend it enough. Just to make sure. That's certainly part of investigating for a healthy home. Another big one I see is actually carbon dioxide now, especially with airtight homes, that are not having adequate air exchanges. And didn't maybe have, mechanical engineer design in their system, which is allowed in some places. 00:37:21:20 - 00:37:47:07 Speaker 2 So, in newer homes, especially more and more, I'm asking for clients to buy a carbon dioxide meter. I like the smart things meter to get readings on that, because that absolutely can either be, present with a mold issue or it can be the highest presenting issue, outside or excluding a mold issue. 00:37:47:09 - 00:38:13:20 Speaker 1 Yeah. Where, you know, we're advocating moving to all electric homes right now. And it's really a struggle here because we have such a big presence in the oil and gas industry here in Houston. But, we've built quite a few all electric homes. And with the, the way that the induction cooktop technology has really changed over the last few years, those products have gotten really good. 00:38:13:22 - 00:38:39:10 Speaker 1 So that was kind of the last bastion of people can't let go of that gas range. They've got to have a gas range. So now that the induction ranges are quite good, it's an easier sell. But yeah, having natural gas products in a tightly built house, is is a dangerous thing. And there's a lot of ways those things can be built wrong that are going to cause problems. 00:38:39:13 - 00:38:40:13 Speaker 1 And. 00:38:40:15 - 00:38:57:11 Speaker 2 Especially if you're not maintaining them. Right, like, right. Most people and this is kind of what I educate on to, you know, get in your attics, get in your basements. You know, a lot of people I, I have an a my questionnaire, you know, when was the last time you were in your attic and do you see any signs of water damage. 00:38:57:11 - 00:39:30:02 Speaker 2 And it's, it's shocking, you know, to to see the, the durations that people put. I don't think anyone's been there for two years or longer. Or since we bought the house and, you know, we, I think we just need to raise the awareness, about how important it is for us as homeowners. Obviously, like, I'm, I'm fully in support of bringing in professionals, to help us especially diagnose and determine things that we might not have the knowledge base in, but to be familiar with our homes. 00:39:30:05 - 00:39:49:04 Speaker 2 Because there's so much that we can catch, again, that we might need to bring a tech in for, but that we can catch quickly before we get a gas leak that's, you know, low level for years or a water leak that we just didn't see because we didn't go in that area of our home. 00:39:49:06 - 00:40:11:27 Speaker 1 And opening cabinets in areas. Or let's say you have a guest bathroom that doesn't use very often, just going out there and opening the cavity, opening the cabinet every once in a while and checking out the sink underneath. We had a client that we just finished remodeling their upstairs bathroom from this, but they had a get an older couple, and they have an upstairs guest bathroom that never gets used. 00:40:11:29 - 00:40:36:28 Speaker 1 And they went up there one day and they they noticed the cabinets swollen up, and they opened it up, and the cabinet was full of mold. Well, there was an AC drain that was tied in there, and the AC drain was was backing up and so we had to rip the bathroom apart and remediate all that. So, if they hadn't gone upstairs for some reason to see that bathroom, that could have gone on like that for a few more months, and it would have been even worse there. 00:40:36:28 - 00:41:05:02 Speaker 2 So it work smarter, not harder. I love water sensors. They're really a low investment. High yield, high reward product that you can, you know, they're about $10 each. I like, a specific brand. But putting them under high water potential, areas is just such an easy way to be alerted if you, for instance, aren't going to these areas, that you have a water problem. 00:41:05:04 - 00:41:21:17 Speaker 2 And they're high decibel. They're usually really good at picking up even, like low level amounts of water. So that's just an easy way. If, for instance, you know, you, you don't want to go to these places or you don't go to these places often have an extra layer of protection. 00:41:21:20 - 00:41:48:24 Speaker 1 Yeah, we touched on this a while ago, but if someone's buying a house or if they're building a new house or doing major remodeling, what are some easy visual checks that they can be doing during construction or before they buy the home? You know, just some easy perimeter checks or actually both interior and exterior. What are some things that you recommend looking for? 00:41:48:27 - 00:42:10:09 Speaker 2 So they're kind of two separate categories for me, building or buying a home not in the process of being built. Right. Because some people go into contract when a builder is already started building. For that specifically, do all your phase inspections, you know, if you're coming in when it's already been framed, start from the framing, framing inspection. 00:42:10:11 - 00:42:36:01 Speaker 2 And go to, you know, through the lat or the what would be the third inspection? I can't stress that enough. Having, you know, a third party who's because a lot of people I feel or, what I'm told is they don't feel confident, right? They don't feel confident. They know what to look for. So part of my job is educating them, but also relying on people who this is their job, is is really helpful and important. 00:42:36:01 - 00:43:03:12 Speaker 2 So for construction, definitely do phased inspections. Now if you're doing a custom build, there are so many things you can do, to help prevent, and mitigate one, a few things would be, having your, GM look at all the lumber that's being delivered and keeping it on rails, piloting or platforms. So it's not directly on the ground, and then covering it. 00:43:03:15 - 00:43:32:02 Speaker 2 So in case it rains, it's not getting wet. I've had certain builders who will take, moisture meter readings on each delivery and reject, certain, batches of lumber if they read too high, you know, if their inherent moisture content is too high, that's indicative of, again, being left out in the elements and not well cared for or not properly kiln dried, using kiln dried wood as well as is a big one. 00:43:32:04 - 00:43:56:26 Speaker 2 And then, even before that would actually be the selection of, of your, your piece of land is huge. And most people don't think about that. They get really excited. They they want to they want this piece, and don't really think about what that could mean. Be that the neighbors or the sloping, you know, maybe it's at the bottom of a hill. 00:43:56:29 - 00:44:16:27 Speaker 2 What that might mean in terms of a French drain system or a drainage system that might cost, you know, a significant amount of money to protect the house, but that I would then recommend that if they went across the street and up two pieces, maybe they wouldn't have had to, engineer or think out, you know, some of this drainage as much. 00:44:17:02 - 00:44:40:20 Speaker 2 Now, you always have to think about drainage and grading on your property. But again, depending on where it's located, makes a big difference. So that's, that's kind of the first step. Then again, deliveries walking your walking your build. I cannot stress it enough. Some people aren't available to do that. Meaning, you know, they're building in a different state or a different county. 00:44:40:22 - 00:45:08:14 Speaker 2 So they can't get to it as much. But if you can do it, you know, oversight on the build is so important. Often I don't find that building, defects are malicious. They're just mistakes. Right. But you being they're asking questions again, having a third party like, general home inspector who's doing phased inspections, is huge, huge, huge. 00:45:08:17 - 00:45:27:09 Speaker 1 Or having somebody like what we do being an owner's rep, who, is it available if you're if the owner is living out of town, out of state, whatever. You know, we can kind of do those checks for them and be their eyes and ears on the project. I'm I'm doing one right now. That's about an hour west of Houston. 00:45:27:10 - 00:45:43:08 Speaker 1 People are building a vacation home, and I'm going out there on a regular basis and just monitoring the job site so that those types of checks, if you can't be there, I suggest hiring somebody that can be there in addition to just the GC. 00:45:43:10 - 00:46:07:03 Speaker 2 Absolutely, absolutely. So I mean, there's much more I could go into there, but going to a used home or, you know, not new to you, home, same thing. We kind of want to start on the exterior. I always recommend no against sometimes this isn't possible, but going during a rain or directly after, I think that's, huge to see and kind of what? 00:46:07:07 - 00:46:41:15 Speaker 2 Not only the water does on the exterior. So how well the grading, sloping and drainage is on the property, but also seeing if you see anything on the interior, that you may have not seen if you weren't there after a rain. Again, sometimes that's not possible. But I always recommend that if possible. And so looking at the integrity of the siding, looking at the integrity of the roof, disclosures, I think it'd be now some states are variable in terms of if a realtor can give them to you at what time. 00:46:41:17 - 00:46:59:25 Speaker 2 But for instance, in Connecticut, like, I can see every disclosure my realtor can send to me before I even review a property. So, for instance, like one said, they had a major sprinkler go off, two years ago and a damp basement. So for me, not even worth seeing, right? So there's a lot you can garner from that. 00:46:59:28 - 00:47:24:04 Speaker 2 And it also usually gives the age of the systems, which is super important information. How old the Hvac is, how old, the heater, water heater is all of these things. Because as we mentioned at the top, every product has a light. So we want to know how old these things are. And then I love asking if you can get this information and again, how they were maintained. 00:47:24:06 - 00:47:45:05 Speaker 2 So on listings I love seeing beautifully maintained or well maintained. That's usually a good sign. And a good indicator that there was pride taken, you know, and taking care of the home. Then, you know, in the inside, always use your smell first. Right. You can get a lot from that. And some are just an immediate turnaround. 00:47:45:05 - 00:48:06:22 Speaker 2 No, for for people who are sensitive. Right? They just they just know there's something there that they're probably not going to be able to tolerate or remediate. So it's not worth it. And then looking for signs of historical water damage. So and that's again from the bottom plane to the top plane of the the interior, wall, or room. 00:48:06:24 - 00:48:32:14 Speaker 2 So you're looking at baseboards. Is there any buckling, is there any pulling away from the wall? Looking around windows and doors because we know those are, you know, areas primed for water intrusion, especially, again, if they're at their end of life, looking for any signs of water ringing? Any signs of drip marks? Right on drywall on various different surfaces. 00:48:32:17 - 00:48:51:19 Speaker 2 Some people go as far is taking a moisture meter with them. I, I'm in support of that. To determine, you know, if something looks wet, is it right? Because sometimes it's not but but kind of having a tool to validate that can be helpful looking. Sure. 00:48:51:21 - 00:49:05:19 Speaker 1 Sure. Oh, so the the caveat on that is if you know how to use it properly, there's absolutely. And if it's a decent quality moisture meter, like you can get on and buy a $20 moisture meter on Amazon, that's probably not worth very much. And then especially. 00:49:05:19 - 00:49:07:17 Speaker 2 If you give erroneous readings. 00:49:07:17 - 00:49:21:21 Speaker 1 Yeah, if you don't if you don't know how to use it, you know, and and then on the good ones, if you don't know how to use them, the different settings and modes. And if you're testing drywall versus wood, yeah, there's some differences there and how it's utilized. 00:49:21:23 - 00:49:54:13 Speaker 2 Super valid point. And I just want to say that for my clients, I give them a video on how to use it if that's something that they want to do. Because it's exactly that. You can extrapolate information that's wrong if you don't know how to properly use these tools. Right? So I totally agree. Looking in cabinets, and under cabinets, like you said, I have almost never seen in a older home not having some sort of staining, you know, on that bottom plywood in a bathroom, kitchen or powder room cabinet. 00:49:54:16 - 00:50:17:08 Speaker 2 It's common. But it doesn't necessarily mean it's it should be something that, you should if you go through with purchase that you should not replace, in my opinion, you should. But looking, behind washers, I really recommend, you know, just taking a peek back there using the light on your cell phone. That's pretty easy to do. 00:50:17:08 - 00:50:49:03 Speaker 2 And again, I if people can get up to the attic and especially if that's where your mechanicals are, I say do it. Especially if your, realtor or the sellers agent is, you know, allowing or encouraging you to do so. I recommend looking at everything visually that you can, for as much information as you can. And I kind of coach clients on risk and risk management and assigning risk to these things depending on their unique, family's needs and their sensitivities. 00:50:49:03 - 00:51:12:14 Speaker 2 Right. Because for some people, a, a cabinet that has a little bit of water damage is fine. In terms of their health, they can they're robust enough to tolerate, that potential exposure. Maybe they'll just replace it. And they'll be fine for other people. And specifically for the sensitive and sensitive eyes, it's it's challenging. 00:51:12:14 - 00:51:36:24 Speaker 2 It can be challenging. But there are always ways to determine and assign risk on what we're seeing visually. If it's worth putting in an offer and then what we want to confirm or look at in the inspection phase and in the options phase. So I recommend also if you go through with, putting in an offer, it's accepted asking for the longest option period as possible. 00:51:36:26 - 00:51:51:06 Speaker 2 So you have, as you know, the maximal amount of time to determine if, if and what the issues are and if it's something that you're willing to take on, whether that be financially or health related. 00:51:51:09 - 00:52:14:28 Speaker 1 And then some, some visual checks on the exterior. If you see a lot of water staining in one area, there's there's likely an issue there or there's potentially an issue there. So if if there's an area where the where the roof is, is dumping a bunch of water on one spot on the wall and that wall is just getting hammered, then likely there's some moisture problems on the other side of that stain, unless they had really good waterproofing. 00:52:15:00 - 00:52:19:13 Speaker 1 But on an older house, the likelihood is it's questionable. Waterproofing. 00:52:19:16 - 00:52:21:11 Speaker 2 So, or it's broken down. 00:52:21:17 - 00:52:33:24 Speaker 1 So it's just old. Yeah. It's beyond it's serviceable life. Right. But so any stating that you see on the outside should be a red flag or at least something worth investigating, right. 00:52:33:26 - 00:52:34:18 Speaker 2 Absolutely. 00:52:34:25 - 00:52:48:25 Speaker 1 And we've we've mentioned sprinkler systems being directed toward houses a couple times now. Always something good to check. Some other visual stuff on the outside. I mean, I'd say, like, you know, window, window caulking is as big. 00:52:48:28 - 00:52:49:09 Speaker 2 Absolutely. 00:52:49:09 - 00:52:53:16 Speaker 1 What else? What else? What else am I missing here? 00:52:53:19 - 00:53:26:18 Speaker 2 Gosh, there's there's so much, so siding termination is really interesting to, and looking first of all, you have to know what you're looking at and looking for, right. But many manufacturers for specific siding, require a gap for, you know, your water plain and drainage. So if you're seeing and I've, I've seen this unfortunately a lot, with siding that was, inappropriately and improperly installed, just retaining so much moisture on that, the foundation and steel plates that then we have issues. 00:53:26:18 - 00:53:48:03 Speaker 2 So that's one that I, I'm, I'm usually recommending, people look at like, how does how does the bottom siding that's either meeting the foundation or meeting the ground look, and does it look like it's been installed correctly? Yeah. The windows are huge. And we can get into a whole side topic in terms of retrofits. 00:53:48:03 - 00:54:16:10 Speaker 2 And what I see with that. Because that, the whole other, conversation piece into, again, why the House might be performing the way it is or failing in the way it is, or that we're seeing moisture issues in the way we are. And for me, what's what's really been the most important in that I found in consulting, especially, like I told you, with my client base is they want to know why. 00:54:16:12 - 00:54:35:04 Speaker 2 And a lot of people are able to maybe identify what's going on, but they're not able to tell them why it's happening. And if you're not able to identify that, first of all, the risk of recurrence is high. But you're leaving things on the table. So that's really important. Yeah. 00:54:35:06 - 00:55:02:16 Speaker 1 I wanted to back up. So on the siding that you, on the siding thing that you mentioned, one thing that is rarely done, at least here in our, in our market, is on siding installations with fiber cement siding, like a hearty siding, which is the most common right now. That's actually supposed to have a capillary break behind it, which means that sidings not supposed to be installed flat against a wall, flat against sheathing. 00:55:02:19 - 00:55:28:09 Speaker 1 They're supposed to be capillary break, which means it should be installed on, furring strips to get it off the wall. A rain screen system is what that's called. There are some, really good actual house rat products out there right now. Tamblyn Tamlin has a product called the Rain Screen 6.3 and 10.1, that has 6.3mm or 10.1mm. 00:55:28:12 - 00:55:54:29 Speaker 1 Bubbles essentially on it that are very stiff bubbles. And you can install your siding straight to that. And that provides that capillary break and that air gap between the siding and the sheathing. But even as simple as just nailing up some, vertical furring strips, to create that air gap so that if, if not, if water gets behind it, but when water gets behind it because it's going to get back there. 00:55:55:01 - 00:56:18:21 Speaker 1 So that when water gets back there, it has the ability to drain down and to dry out. You know, we always have to plan our exteriors with the assumption that water is going to get behind whatever the outside material is, whether it's brick, stone, stucco, siding, whatever the water is going to get back there. So it's designing it so it can breathe dry out and not harbor mold. 00:56:18:23 - 00:56:48:06 Speaker 2 Exactly. And again, talking about cladding, I, I unfortunately see a lot of issues with reservoir cladding. And again, not having that appropriate drainage plan or not having the appropriate, sweeps to get that ventilation, in that plane to dry out. So that's important to know. Another thing with brick, is most people don't know that mortar also has a life, you know, and it's about 20 to 30 years, if you're lucky, depending on your climate. 00:56:48:09 - 00:57:18:22 Speaker 2 So any time people are buying brick homes, or I should say older brick homes, you know, earlier than 2010, I usually say I recommend having a brick mason come out and look at it and see if the integrity is good. Especially this is especially important if you have a chimney penetration. That chimney is getting, you know, a much different wind and air circulation than, you know, the four corners or the, you know, four sides of our home, and is much more prone to break down. 00:57:18:24 - 00:57:49:29 Speaker 2 So getting that looked at is huge. I could again dig into, chimneys and how I, I really see a lot of problems with them. So if you're in the market for a home, and you're looking at a home with a chimney, I absolutely recommend, a full and thorough inspection of that in the interior. And at that exterior penetration, making sure the flashing hasn't broken down, you know, around the where it where it comes out of the roof, making sure that water is not sitting against it. 00:57:50:01 - 00:57:54:28 Speaker 2 That's huge too. And water will break down anything eventually over time. 00:57:55:00 - 00:58:16:10 Speaker 1 Yeah. And chimneys are one of the most common points of water intrusion. Okay. As you mentioned, the flashing around the chimney, especially where, where the water dams up against the back of the chimney, all without a slope. It should have a cricket there to divert water around the chimney. So it's not just pounding that that corner right there. 00:58:16:12 - 00:58:17:10 Speaker 2 Totally. 00:58:17:13 - 00:58:32:25 Speaker 1 On old homes, you often see the mortar on the backside of a chimney, is very deteriorated because it's just constantly getting hammered, so. Exactly. All right, well, I think we are about out of time. We've been doing this for almost an hour now, so. 00:58:32:27 - 00:58:33:25 Speaker 2 I believe it. 00:58:33:27 - 00:58:50:07 Speaker 1 I know my quick. So, I appreciate you coming on. Megan, it was great to talk to you. If our listeners want to have a virtual consultation with you, if they're, outside of connect, Connecticut or if they're in Connecticut and they want to hook up with you, how do they reach you first? 00:58:50:14 - 00:59:13:27 Speaker 2 So you can email me at, the guided. Well, so the guided well at gmail.com. Or I have an Instagram I actually don't have a website. I've it's truly the, the amount of interest and clientele that I've gotten just from having an Instagram page, has been tremendous. I am working on a website though, but you can also find me at the Guided well on Instagram. 00:59:13:29 - 00:59:25:06 Speaker 1 And that's where I found you. So it's a great spot. And you're, you're, you're very active on there. So you're easy easy to get to get in touch with there. So thank you again. Really appreciate you joining me. 00:59:25:08 - 00:59:28:03 Speaker 2 Yeah. Thanks so much Curtis. I really appreciate it. 00:59:28:06 - 00:59:51:28 Speaker 1 All right. And thank you all, listeners, for joining us today on this episode of the Your Partnership or podcast. We'll see you next time. Thanks. If you found this helpful. Enjoy listening. Please support us by liking and subscribing here on your podcast platform. And also join us on our YouTube channel. We want to continue to bring you high quality content and expert guests, and your support truly helps us to continue this journey. 00:59:52:04 - 01:00:00:28 Speaker 1 If you have any questions for me or my guests or any feedback for us, you can email us at podcast at your project shepherd.com. Thanks again.