00:00:06:20 - 00:00:27:07 Speaker 1 Welcome, and thank you for joining us on on your project Shepherd Construction Podcast. My name is Curtis Lawson with Shepherd Construction Advisors and along with my industry expert friends, I am here to guide you through these four key components of a successful project, which are demonstrated by the simple drawing of a house. The Foundation is proper planning. The left wall is your team. 00:00:27:14 - 00:00:50:19 Speaker 1 The right wall is communication and the roof is proper execution. Have all four of these components in place and your project will succeed. Whether you're building or remodeling a custom home, or if you're an architect or designer looking for inspiration, or maybe you're just interested in building science and high performance construction, you're in the right place. Please help us further our mission here by tapping that follow or subscribe button. 00:00:50:19 - 00:01:02:05 Speaker 1 Push that notification bell so that you know when our new episodes drop every week. And now let's get to today's interview. 00:01:02:08 - 00:01:25:11 Speaker 1 Hey, everyone. Welcome to today's episode of your project Shepherd podcast. Today I am joined by Davidovich. Dave is the director of Quality Assurance and training with First America Homes. And he is on numerous board and education positions at the HBA, the Greater Easton Builders Association that I'm a member of as well. Which is where I met him. 00:01:25:14 - 00:01:28:00 Speaker 1 And so, Dave, thanks for joining me today. 00:01:28:01 - 00:01:32:13 Speaker 2 Well, thank you, Curtis. It's good to be here. It's a beautiful day to be inside here in Houston. 00:01:32:13 - 00:01:40:26 Speaker 1 Yes. As it has been all summer. Not not the kind of weather that we want to be out on job sites and that's, you know, for sure. 00:01:40:26 - 00:01:53:04 Speaker 2 That's where I was all morning. So when you said, hey, could you join me? And. Sorry it's taking me so long to get here, but, Good. I'm glad to be here and looking forward to our discussion, because it's something I'm passionate about as our topic today. 00:01:53:06 - 00:01:58:15 Speaker 1 Well, thanks for putting on a clean shirt and putting on and putting on some deodorant, I'll tell you that. Appreciate that. I've been on the jobsite all day. 00:01:58:17 - 00:02:02:05 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. Hey, you always travel with multiple outfits in the car. 00:02:02:07 - 00:02:13:08 Speaker 1 So, as I said, you're heavily involved in, that education side of, GBA. So GBA you do a lot of that. But then also at first America, that's your job, right? 00:02:13:15 - 00:02:14:18 Speaker 2 That's my job. 00:02:14:20 - 00:02:23:20 Speaker 1 So, tell us kind of what what you do there. Exactly. And then, like, how you got into that because you started off as a homebuilder? Yeah, correct. 00:02:23:22 - 00:02:40:05 Speaker 2 I'm still working for a home builder. I, like I said, I work for First America Homes. Now I'm director of quality assurance and training. Training, being, kind of passionate about. I've been a home builder. I came out of, Texas A&M. So I'm an Aggie. You know. 00:02:40:08 - 00:02:41:00 Speaker 1 I'm not an arrogant. 00:02:41:01 - 00:02:45:13 Speaker 2 I know a little. But I could tell by your eyes rolling back into your head. That's okay. 00:02:45:13 - 00:02:46:24 Speaker 1 No Longhorn either. 00:02:46:27 - 00:03:10:26 Speaker 2 But, so I came out of there. So I've been. I've been doing this building stuff for when I was looking the other almost 40 years. I started out with Perry Homes here in Houston. Many, many years ago. And, Perry great company, taught me a lot about quality. They're just meticulous. And to this day, they're meticulous about quality and how they do things, as is, are many builders. 00:03:10:29 - 00:03:44:06 Speaker 2 So I was in should I personally built thousands of homes, closed many people changed people's lives by putting them into new homes over many, many decades and, eventually went into more management stuff was area manager, sales manager, all sorts of different things in the construction industry. You're all here in the Houston area. But after a while, actually, I, as a superintendent, you keep getting these inspections from real estate inspectors and things and this and that. 00:03:44:06 - 00:04:05:09 Speaker 2 And I said, well, what are these inspections all about? And I would get very frustrated. So I that was my first, real certification. I went out and I went through the process and, it was a long three year process to get licensed as a real estate. Inspector, I did some of that on the side on weekends in this and that, but it was a good experience. 00:04:05:09 - 00:04:23:22 Speaker 2 Went through a lot of education to get that taken care of. But that was just kind of a start as, I continue to build houses, I started people started calling on me, I'm kind of a a code book geek. Curtis. People, I don't know, maybe, if they're like my wife, she reads these romance novels. 00:04:23:22 - 00:04:41:01 Speaker 2 Me know if I'm in front of the Astros watching TV, I got maybe a code book down here that I'm getting brushed up on. You know, we we're in a new season of electrical code here in Texas. I, I'm reading electrical code while we're watching baseball. That's my idea of fun on a Friday night reading code books. 00:04:41:03 - 00:05:15:12 Speaker 2 So but it's and it but it's I'm in an industry where I started taking on this idea. The more you know, the more you know. But. And I tell this to everyone, I train, teach, coach, whatever, whatever your industry is, if you if you want to be, a hairdresser. We talked about our hair earlier. Or whatever it is, an auto mechanic that once you decide on a career, by golly, I just don't think that your employer is going to do everything you need to be the best at what you have chosen to do. 00:05:15:14 - 00:05:37:06 Speaker 2 And I took that route and I said, well, you know, I'm going to I'm going to study, I'm going to learn, I'm going to go to conferences, I'm going to get more certifications. I got a lot of code certifications from the International Code Council. So I've got certifications in plumbing, building, electrical, Hvac, stuff like that. A couple of other things for green buildings, but it's just things that you acquire over time. 00:05:37:09 - 00:05:56:20 Speaker 2 So that's the the cool thing about what I do is as a home builder, that I can look at things and say, hey, I want to be better than the other guy. I want to learn more. If I should be the one that walks into a home being built, and I should be able to tell if that's right or if that's wrong. 00:05:56:22 - 00:06:10:18 Speaker 2 Not, you know, the plumber that's been doing it for 30 years is, oh, even I could say, well, you know, you know, the code book changes every three years you've been doing this for 30. Yeah. And I bet he's not up on the latest stuff. 00:06:10:18 - 00:06:17:18 Speaker 1 It's like the AC guy who says, I've been doing AC in Houston for 40 years. You just do 500ft² per turn and that's how you do it. 00:06:17:21 - 00:06:46:19 Speaker 2 Holly I we laugh, but just yesterday I had a homeowner tell you that his father said that it should be 500ft per, no, no, that's so old school. And but that's that's part of the, you know, our industry, homebuilding industry. It changes. I tell people I light speed nowadays that, a lot of people don't realize that every three years, the residential code that we build houses by changes every three years. 00:06:46:21 - 00:07:12:17 Speaker 2 The electrical code that we use in Texas changes every three years. The energy code, we every three years, there's there's a rotation of these codes that come into play. And if you don't take at least one class a year about code changes for homebuilding, you don't know that we're not using 500ft² per ton anymore. It's a whole scientific program on a computer that sizes your air conditioner now, and people don't realize that. 00:07:12:19 - 00:07:31:14 Speaker 2 But that's all part of being a head, wanting to be knowledgeable. And it's a desire for people. Like I said, anything that you do that I want to be the best. What can I do to be the best? And to me, educating yourself on your particular profession is the way to go. 00:07:31:16 - 00:07:57:05 Speaker 1 Yeah, I love this analogy of and I use this example with my kids when they're when they're working on a learning a skill for them. It's music, it's learning their instrument. But this really applies to learning any skill. Every time they pick up their musical instrument. Or for us, anytime we're doing a construction project where we're writing a page in the book, right? 00:07:57:08 - 00:08:18:04 Speaker 1 And every day we're we're writing a new page. And is that going to be something that adds to the story, that builds the story? Or are we just just writing filler material that no one wants to read and they just skip right over? It's it's every class that we take. We, you know, we're gleaning one good piece of information that we can apply to our life or our job. 00:08:18:09 - 00:08:56:06 Speaker 2 Right? Yeah. It's, if you know anything in life, I mean, you can learn life lessons, professor lessons. Almost any place you go, you can go out to dinner tonight. You know, it's Friday. Our tradition is there's a Mexican restaurant. I'm going to it. I have 30 tonight. It's tradition, but there's things you can learn and teach people and bring back and say, hey, and, people think I'm weird, but I love the idea that somebody invented a phone with a camera in it, because I will go all sorts of places and I'll take pictures of things and use them for classes and learning things, and, and where'd you take that picture? 00:08:56:08 - 00:09:14:10 Speaker 2 And sometimes I don't remember, but it was at the moment something to learn from. Yeah. And, but, yeah, you have these teachable moments that it could be directly related to, to us home building, but it might just be about, you know, something about your desire to be better. And, when you can do that, you go, wow. 00:09:14:13 - 00:09:30:24 Speaker 2 And you impact lives along the way. One thing you if you can tell if you're listening to us, you don't know it. But yes, I have gray hair courtesy of a little gray hair. You got to catch up to me more and more every day. Yeah, but, you're watching us, you see? But, I've got some some years behind me. 00:09:30:24 - 00:09:51:29 Speaker 2 And I said, as I approach retirement and my wife says I'll never retire, but it's who are who are the people coming up behind us? You know, the, you know, the old country song who's going to fill their shoes. And there's not many people coming into the construction trades. There's not many people coming up into the construction management ladder. 00:09:52:01 - 00:10:17:06 Speaker 2 So it's kind of it's kind of scarce out there. So, yeah, part of my mission in my later years here is, yes, I'm working for a home builder, and I'm making our guys better, I hope every day, every day, but also to leave something for our homebuilding industry. I not only are touching with the guys in my company, but also teaching classes at the HBA, the Austin HBA, San Antonio, possibly Dallas. 00:10:17:06 - 00:10:25:00 Speaker 2 I'm coming up soon, but, and getting these guys excited about wanting to learn more to be the best they can be. 00:10:25:01 - 00:10:45:07 Speaker 1 Yeah, well, your classes are always great and they're not boring, which is what I appreciate you and I'm sure everyone else, because we've all sat through dry training classes. Sometimes the material is not that exciting. So it's important to have a teacher that makes it interesting and fun. And you always do that. Thanks. So I you know, I appreciate you stepping up and taking that role. 00:10:45:10 - 00:10:48:26 Speaker 1 You know, in our association, because you're doing a lot of great work there. 00:10:48:28 - 00:10:58:05 Speaker 2 Thank you man, and I appreciate you coming to class that you actually pay to come see me do a class touches me. And, but, thank you. 00:10:58:07 - 00:11:02:27 Speaker 1 Well, I'm paying to get that designation, you know? So, it's not. It's not for you, sir. 00:11:02:28 - 00:11:04:14 Speaker 2 Okay. Good deal. 00:11:04:16 - 00:11:10:04 Speaker 1 You just happen to be the guy. He's, I'm just kidding. If it was certain people, I might not go, so it doesn't make a difference. 00:11:10:05 - 00:11:37:28 Speaker 2 In the end, it is part of the, you know, wanting to be a good trainer is, you know, how can you take stuff like code books or OSHA safety and try and teach it in a way that gets people excited about one coming to the class? But to remember, yeah, staying away so that they will actually remember and apply, like you said, even if you just go 3 or 4 things, if you apply that tomorrow to what you do, that's 3 or 4 things that you will remember. 00:11:37:28 - 00:11:46:11 Speaker 2 And if you do this on a daily and weekly basis, you look back in a year or two and you go, wow, I've come a long way in my profession. Yeah. 00:11:46:13 - 00:12:03:19 Speaker 1 Looks like I've got a big stack of, business books in here in my office, and people are hoping you actually read all those books. I was like, yeah, if you if I get one good piece of information out of that book that changes the way I do things, it was totally worth the 999 and the three hours that I spent with it. 00:12:03:19 - 00:12:04:01 Speaker 1 Right? 00:12:04:05 - 00:12:24:20 Speaker 2 Yeah. It's, you can always use them and, and it's kind of fun when you get that little extra nugget, you know, keep it. Then usually you share it, know you'll tell somebody or maybe someone here in the office or out in the field. Hey, I read this thing yesterday and boom, now they're talking about it. So it's, it's kind of fun, and it gets to be contagious. 00:12:24:22 - 00:12:52:01 Speaker 2 So I do believe people know we don't like change as human beings. We like the way it's always been. But sometimes change is kind of fun. And, when you present it like that, I think people really kind of gobble it up. Oh, cool. Let's let's do it this way. And, and it makes sense. Like I said, you know, we were talking about some of the building science stuff earlier, you and I, and that all, all that stuff comes about from changes in our industry and how we build houses. 00:12:52:03 - 00:13:13:28 Speaker 2 And if you keep up with code changes and building science and you do that on a regular basis, the stuff isn't a surprise to you. But when your house is start sweating and dripping and getting gross and smelly, you know what has happened. And oh, I went to a class on that. Yeah, it's a fun industry. 00:13:14:00 - 00:13:34:27 Speaker 1 So one thing I wanted to talk about today is, it well, the main thing we hear talk about is builder education, which we've already gotten into. But, you know, one point that I've made on this podcast several times and we don't get into the pros and cons of this, is that, for better or for worse, Texas doesn't have builder, licensing. 00:13:34:27 - 00:13:54:03 Speaker 1 Right, right. And there's, there's pros and cons to that. I'll say this, though, that the, you know, that the downside can be consumer protection. But for states who do have licensing, just because a guy has a license doesn't mean he's a good builder, right? There are plenty of good businesspeople, good builders who who, don't have a license. 00:13:54:03 - 00:14:16:21 Speaker 1 And there's plenty of really bad people who do have a license. So it's not all about what the state requires and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, this this podcast is really kind of geared toward consumers. And I hope that people listening or listening to us to help them make better decisions about hiring builders and how to approach a construction project the right way. 00:14:16:23 - 00:14:38:29 Speaker 1 One thing I think it's important for people to do when they're interviewing builders, especially in especially in Texas, where there's not the licensing is to ask them what what kind of education do do you get? Like, yeah, Mr. Builder, what what do you get? But but then often the owner of the company might have a lot of education or, you know, builder education. 00:14:38:29 - 00:14:55:15 Speaker 1 Like, you know, I've got the designations, you know, the graduate master builder and the certified graduate builder and the certified aging and play specialist and all the stuff that I have done. But then also the guys who are actually in the field doing the work, you know what I get? What education do they have? 00:14:55:17 - 00:14:58:03 Speaker 2 It's got it's the Wild West. I mean, we're Texas. 00:14:58:08 - 00:15:00:26 Speaker 1 We don't we don't like people telling us what to do. Yeah. 00:15:00:28 - 00:15:27:07 Speaker 2 But also like you said, there are many states that don't have licensing for builders. Well, you put a shingle out and you're a builder. Yep. But I do believe most people that are going to spend a lot of money on a project, maybe it's a new house, maybe it's a remodel, maybe it's whatever that they should. I mean, you alluded to most of it that, hey, tell me about you and your company and what makes you different than the rest to me, this. 00:15:27:09 - 00:15:45:06 Speaker 2 Hey, don't tell me about your company. That's the start. What do you do that puts you above the rest is kind of the key thing that I think consumers should ask. Because then that allows you, like you just mentioned, a lot of it. I, as the company owner, could then go into my education. I believe that I should be above the rest. 00:15:45:06 - 00:16:12:19 Speaker 2 Here's what I do every month I do continuing education. My guys in the field are certified in this or this or that. We have numerous code certifications, getting us, you know, above the other guys because they're not code certified, or whatever it is about your company that makes you unique. Yes. All those letters and people watching when you mentioned Cjb, CB and all these other alphabet soup things after your name on a business card, it does mean something. 00:16:12:19 - 00:16:30:00 Speaker 2 But to people it's just a bunch of letters and they'll look at go, tell me what this means. And that gives you the opportunity as a company owner to to share that information as versus Chuck in the truck, who doesn't even have a business card with letters after his name, giving them a lowball bid. And they go, well, I should go with him. 00:16:30:02 - 00:16:53:02 Speaker 2 Don't. Yes, you could, but it's always buyer beware. At that point. You have a facility, you have insurance, you have continuing education, you have people that are educated on your crews, as versus, people that after the project is done, let's say it goes well. Well, you know where to find the guy that did that. What if something goes wrong six months after you? 00:16:53:03 - 00:17:11:08 Speaker 2 You know, the project is done. Where would you find. Oh, they're gone with the with. We, you know, roofers are not licensed either in this state. And, you know, we have a hail storm come through. And, you know, people come from all over the country to give you new roofs. Yeah. And then you find out the roof leaks and but the guy that did it is long gone. 00:17:11:08 - 00:17:40:27 Speaker 2 He's back in whatever or wherever he came from. So it is a kind of a buyer beware thing. But it I think it allows consumers the ability to ask questions. And then they themselves get more educated when it comes to, oh, I didn't even know you guys did that type of stuff. Because I think, like you just demonstrated you're a great sales person for your company, demonstrating in less than 30s why your company is better and what all those letters mean after your name. 00:17:40:29 - 00:17:58:00 Speaker 2 So that's a great start. And people, I think, need to tune in to that. It's not always the low bid, you know, again, you get what you pay for, but then also check the company out. And part of it is do they are they taking those steps to be better than the rest? Yeah. 00:17:58:02 - 00:18:09:26 Speaker 1 I'm a big believer in in in builder education. I mean I am definitely a product product of that. You know, I, I went to college for music, I did I did not go to college for anything construction related. 00:18:09:27 - 00:18:11:28 Speaker 2 That explains our sound studio here. 00:18:12:00 - 00:18:31:21 Speaker 1 Exactly. I got into construction because I had a family member who was in the business, and I kind of didn't know what I wanted to do with my life after I decided not to not do music, and he said, hey, come work with me and I'll teach you this business. But then I only got so much from him because he was the old school, 500ft² return kind of guy, you know? 00:18:31:23 - 00:18:55:07 Speaker 1 You know, you know, this was 20 years ago, so, but I realized that I wasn't really getting that full. That full now, you know, bulk of knowledge from him that I really needed to succeed. And so I sought out the the Nahb training programs, which I'm really sad that those, they're still there, but it's not really being pushed. 00:18:55:07 - 00:19:15:25 Speaker 1 And the the designations are what they used to be. You know, I wouldn't got the Cjb certified graduate builder, graduate, master builder, certified aging in place, specialist green building, all that kind of stuff. And those are great programs. I like that class materials, really good stuff. So I'm kind of sad that those aren't really being done like they were, you know? 00:19:16:00 - 00:19:27:26 Speaker 1 But then I'm, I'm very happy to see, like HBA has developed their own curriculum for built for builder education, which is really kind of taking the place of the nahb stuff for our little guys. Right. 00:19:27:28 - 00:19:56:24 Speaker 2 And that's kind of years ago we saw this kind of happening as, you know, as the chairman of the education committee back then, we started saying, hey, the National Home Builders Association is they were starting to take away certain classes. They were starting to alter some of the certifications. And it's been almost, almost, over eight year real costing downward of what the Nahb National Association Home Builders have been offering. 00:19:56:26 - 00:20:16:15 Speaker 2 You can still take classes online and this and that, but even through the most of it used to be all their classes were offered through the local builders association. Once they started taking away those classes, it gave us as the local or like, yeah, we used to do 12 of these classes a year, once a month, and now they only have six classes. 00:20:16:15 - 00:20:35:21 Speaker 2 You can only do it. And then of those who's going to take half of those? The green building class was one of our most popular classes. We would fill the education center almost every time we taught that class. And that was the first class the Nahb took away. Yeah. And they took in they went online with it themselves and you couldn't teach it locally. 00:20:35:23 - 00:20:53:20 Speaker 2 And we were like, well, that's kind of a bummer because that, like you said, it was really good information. The green cloud light that stuff up. That's building science 101. And so yes. And we said, well, what could we do as a local? And that's how we developed for the SBA, the ABCs of Home building. Just so you know. 00:20:53:20 - 00:21:07:13 Speaker 2 And I'll let them know if Co per our last committee meeting, we're going to start developing more remodeler central centered type of classes that guys will kind of modeled after the ABCs of home building, which is more new construction. 00:21:07:13 - 00:21:08:04 Speaker 1 Right. 00:21:08:07 - 00:21:27:25 Speaker 2 So we're taking on more of the load locally to provide basic construction knowledge, like I said. And when I teach a class, I usually tell guys, we're here today, you know, if it's electrical class, I'm not a master electrician. And we're going to talk about stuff as you, as a builder, you as a superintendent. When you walk in, you look at something. 00:21:27:25 - 00:21:50:17 Speaker 2 Is it right? Is it wrong? That's all you have to do. Your job is to be the final authority. Is it right? Is it wrong? And talk to your lecturer and say, hey, that's not right. I took a look. Here's a picture, of Dave Slide. Whatever. But, it's basic stuff, and I think that's where we need to go and continue as a organization through the GBA and as others. 00:21:50:20 - 00:22:14:23 Speaker 2 And for more home builders to take advantage of that. No, I'm happy to say that, there are many home builders now starting to take more of these classes. They recognize as their, young new builders. Come on. A lot of companies don't have trainers. Unfortunately. And I'm sure maybe maybe you're part of this that, training was usually. 00:22:14:23 - 00:22:33:13 Speaker 2 Oh, you're new guy. Hey, go see her for an hour and, then come in, and then I'm going to send you out to Joe out there and, he'll he'll show you what he does. Right. And Joe may be a horrible trainer. He may be a horrible builder, but that's the guy, the green guy that comes maybe fresh out of college, and he's learning from the guy who? 00:22:33:16 - 00:22:35:28 Speaker 1 Joe's the guy that's worked there the longest. Yeah. 00:22:36:00 - 00:22:36:21 Speaker 2 And he's horrible. 00:22:36:23 - 00:22:39:06 Speaker 1 He's been here 15 years, and he must be all right. 00:22:39:08 - 00:23:00:13 Speaker 2 And that's kind of what? So it was, you know, it was education by committee. And in some places the committee's not all that knowledgeable. So we took that out at the GBA to fill a void because, back in 2008, when we crashed the first time trainers went out the window at all companies, I want to start things started building back up. 00:23:00:16 - 00:23:33:27 Speaker 2 The method of training was simply follow so and so, and it really wasn't organized or really quality education. It was just you're just mirroring what that guy is doing. And if he's doing it wrong, you're going to do it. So that's a bad precedent to set for, education. So that's why I so yeah, you go to the FPA and I'm proud to say that other associations have borrowed our ideas here at the GBA, like Austin as the essentials of home building courses. 00:23:33:29 - 00:23:34:20 Speaker 1 Sounds familiar. 00:23:34:23 - 00:23:52:29 Speaker 2 And if you look at their curriculum, it's exactly the same as and with, you know, yes, we're glad to share this because that's okay. This is the way people are going to learn. And are you kidding you? Where did you get your. Oh, I went to the local builders association. That's a great place to go for education. You would think so. 00:23:53:01 - 00:24:16:27 Speaker 2 Give them stuff that they could use. And so, you know, there's there's concrete foundations, framing, cornice, electrical, plumbing, Hvac, roofing, masonry, stucco, all sorts of stuff. And you go, wow. And that's the type of stuff everyone. So go to a class and then go to apply it out in the field. And, I think that's, that's having great benefits. 00:24:16:27 - 00:24:38:23 Speaker 2 Now out in the field, I see some guys and there's some guys from some of the larger production builders that have come to me and say, hey, I'm a VP of construction, and I like, guys need training and they'll send them through our courses and they're saying, wow, so much better. So, it's the key. If guys just found the time and recognized that this is the way they should go. 00:24:38:26 - 00:25:01:03 Speaker 1 There's also a lot of really good information online that's just at your fingertips. That didn't used to be there, which I think is fantastic. So, you know, there's a lot of the the influencer types, right. Like, like Matt Risinger and those kind of guys who are out there who, who are putting it, putting out some great content, showing how things should be done, the right, you know, a certain way. 00:25:01:05 - 00:25:20:07 Speaker 1 You know, one thing that I've talked to, talk to Turner a lot about is that some of that content is not really market specific. So some of the advice that you might be getting might not be great for Houston, but might be good for Austin or up north. Right. She had to kind of filter that. But that's something that we didn't have 15, 20 years ago. 00:25:20:09 - 00:25:27:14 Speaker 1 You know, you couldn't just pick up your phone, your laptop or your iPad and watch a course on how to do something. So that's been a game changer. I think. 00:25:27:19 - 00:25:32:05 Speaker 2 Yeah. The, although, you know, the old saying, if it's on the internet, it must be true. 00:25:32:06 - 00:25:32:26 Speaker 1 Exactly. 00:25:32:26 - 00:25:53:05 Speaker 2 And there's. Yes. And I do warn people say, hey, just because it's on there doesn't make it right. Yeah. Because again, climate wise, you know, up north, they lay plastic behind their sheetrock. Oh, my. You do that here. You're going to have mold within that week. But people well they said on this video I should do that. 00:25:53:05 - 00:26:12:14 Speaker 2 Well but you can't tell where they're, they don't say where the. Hey, we're up in Minnesota and this is what we do, right? You just see it on YouTube and it. Well, it says we're supposed to put plastic behind the sheetrock. Okay. Because there are some, you know, a lot of people, you know, if you do it yourself, you're do it yourself or you're redoing a bathroom or a kitchen, you want to do it yourself. 00:26:12:19 - 00:26:32:25 Speaker 2 There's some dangerous stuff on YouTube if you're just, well, I saw it on YouTube and go, oh my goodness, that's why this is happening. Because you watch that video and it's for Minnesota or New York. Because to us, people don't realize we live in a different climate, more low, more unique to almost anywhere in the country. Even Florida is a little different than us. 00:26:32:27 - 00:26:49:14 Speaker 2 Yeah. And when people don't get the details right, bad things happen, and, you know, stuff starts growing on the walls and your house starts smelling funny. And, that's not a good thing to say. Well, you gotta tear it all out and do it again. But do it right. 00:26:49:17 - 00:27:08:07 Speaker 1 There's just so many great resources, though, at our fingertips. There didn't used to be even like that. Construction instruction has a great app, that you can download on your phone. You know, anyone can get that. It's free. And if you want to see the proper way to install whatever, there's probably an animation on their app that you can watch. 00:27:08:07 - 00:27:11:17 Speaker 1 So it's, there's some great tools out there that are free. 00:27:11:17 - 00:27:32:13 Speaker 2 Yeah, there's some great stuff. And I do like the guys at, construction instruction. Gord cook is scheduled to come, teaching at the GBA in November, I think, for after Thanksgiving. One of those two to look for that at the, deal. But you are right. There's so much stuff. When I look at a house, I don't care who I'm. 00:27:32:15 - 00:27:48:22 Speaker 2 Whether it's our company, your company, whoever. When I see something in a house, or I just look at the outside envelope before you cover it up, I said, is that thing attached properly? Just for fun? Just to test them, you know. What do you mean as well? What's the nailing pattern supposed to be like? I don't know, my corners guy knows. 00:27:48:24 - 00:28:06:17 Speaker 2 Well, are you supposed to tape that stuff? You're supposed to tape the vertical seams or just the horizontal seams? I don't know, unless. Hey, why don't you know? And I say that everything that goes into your home. But if you're production builder, everything is the same on every single house. All the materials are the same on every house. 00:28:06:17 - 00:28:29:10 Speaker 2 Yep. The designs are different. Yeah. Custom builder. You might have folks that maybe they have choices between zip or house wrap or this or that. You have more. But I say it will behoove you as the master builder, a concept that has long since gone in this country, that everything that goes into that home. You've read the instruction manual, the installation instructions once. 00:28:29:12 - 00:28:29:27 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:28:30:00 - 00:28:44:24 Speaker 2 I challenge you. Just read it once because I could look at t plot if you use t play, I can still tell you that's not nailed right. What do you me I said well one to me it's kind of humorous because on t play they print the instructions. 00:28:44:24 - 00:28:45:13 Speaker 1 Come the complete. 00:28:45:14 - 00:28:51:13 Speaker 2 With like a little nail gun saying do this every six inches on center. Yeah. And they're like, oh. 00:28:51:16 - 00:28:57:20 Speaker 1 Well, so many of those products are like that. Like like like, Advantech has that has the diamond, the markings on the sheet. 00:28:57:21 - 00:28:58:09 Speaker 2 Put nail here. 00:28:58:09 - 00:29:05:03 Speaker 1 That shows you where the nails go based on your joy spacing. It's like all you have to do is just follow the pattern that's pre printed on the sheet. 00:29:05:05 - 00:29:10:00 Speaker 2 Windows, most flange windows, every window has a sticker on it. I had to install it and tape it. 00:29:10:00 - 00:29:10:26 Speaker 1 Right, right. 00:29:10:29 - 00:29:12:03 Speaker 2 And do they know. 00:29:12:05 - 00:29:30:11 Speaker 1 Yeah. Well I mean every product that we, that we purchase, if it doesn't come with the instructions on it, you can go to. Oh yeah, take the phone, take the iPad, go to their website, look at it. And like you said, just do it once or twice and you're going to use that same product on most of the houses that you build. 00:29:30:18 - 00:29:32:20 Speaker 1 Yeah. So just do it once or twice and you know it. 00:29:32:27 - 00:30:00:00 Speaker 2 And that's again, it's part of your personal education to say, you know, am I the best I can be? And if to me it's like your client, if your client comes up to you and says, Curtis, you know, we walked the house this weekend and I saw this thing and I'm kind of concerned and maybe they're FaceTiming you with their phone and you go, oh, but now you click into client mode and you say, oh, well, that's this product. 00:30:00:00 - 00:30:14:23 Speaker 2 And it says, and that's how it's supposed to be. And that the da da da da da da da. You have now set your client at ease. And then later on down the road when people say, how is Curtis like, oh, he was the best. He knew everything about everything. And he would answer the questions and he sent me at ease. 00:30:14:23 - 00:30:36:19 Speaker 2 And I let real to me, the more you or the superintendent knows about the home you're building, if you have a client that brings referrals, that brings peace of mind to them, they will brag about you name their firstborn male child after you because you were so good at what you did, you were truly above the average guy. 00:30:36:22 - 00:31:02:12 Speaker 1 And on the flip side of that, that the worst is and I have seen this happen many times and the superintendent like, oh yeah, that's installed. Right. That's the way it's supposed to be. And then the homeowner pulls out their phone and they say, oh, actually, I just looked it up and the instructions say this. Yeah. And then and then the superintendent or the builder has egg on their face in front of the client, because the client now knows more than they do. 00:31:02:13 - 00:31:14:29 Speaker 2 Yeah. And it's and again, it you've got to be on top of your game in today's society where information is, like you said, a click away because they can double check you. They can look it up, you know, right from the manufacturer's. 00:31:14:29 - 00:31:19:03 Speaker 1 Website and half the products have a QR code on and they just scan them and take some of the instructions. 00:31:19:06 - 00:31:46:29 Speaker 2 Yeah. But and again, so the client is now going to brag upon you, but I also think education in our field, in our industry, if I'm a superintendent, I want to know as much as I can about everything because it makes me a more confident home builder. If you're new and you're whatever, again, whatever industry you're in, if you're the new guy the first six months, you're the new guy in whatever industry, you're kind of you're a little sheepish because you don't know what it is you're doing. 00:31:46:29 - 00:32:14:10 Speaker 2 Am I doing it right? Am I saying the right things? Am I doing this or that? And but then the more you do it, the more you repeat the process, the more you learn. Suddenly you start becoming more confident and you stand straighter. And you're you're just kind of goes out. And then when clients ask you questions and you give the right answer and they're real pleased with your response, you kind of go home at night, go, oh, I really I changed someone's life today. 00:32:14:13 - 00:32:32:29 Speaker 2 You know, the homeowner was almost in tears because she thought that a crack in her freshly poured concrete that we poured yesterday, she thought, oh, we're going to have to tear it up and start over. But I countered out because I went through, you know, all I know about concrete and cracks and settlement done and post tensioning and and now she's bragging on me. 00:32:33:01 - 00:32:52:18 Speaker 2 And so it makes you, you know, love your job. Nobody wants to go to work and hate their job because they're getting beat up because they just don't know. We said earlier before we started that, you know, you don't know what you don't know. And so when things you know, if you don't know anything about concrete and you see a crack, you go, oh yeah, Mrs. Smith, that is a crack. 00:32:52:19 - 00:32:59:17 Speaker 2 Oh my God, what's going to happen? You're both crying now. That's not that. You're not going to sell more homes. 00:32:59:20 - 00:33:32:26 Speaker 1 Well and and also it's a, it's a what I think what builders and especially superintendents, the owners of the companies think about this. Maybe more than the employees doing things the right way. Following the instructions is also going to give them some long term protection, peace of mind, because improperly installed products are one of the biggest issue sources of, you know, warranty claims and, you know, it may not seem like a big issue, but like a big deal that the subfloor isn't screwed on the right spacing at the time. 00:33:32:26 - 00:33:52:25 Speaker 1 Like, who cares if it's got a, you know, screws in it supposed to be right? The big old heavy. You know, that sheet of Advantech weighs 85 pounds. It's heavy. It's not going anywhere. Just use three screws on it. But, you know, long term, when that floor starts moving, buckling the floor, there's flooring issues. 00:33:52:27 - 00:34:12:25 Speaker 1 It gets torn out. And let's say it's a lawsuit or something like that. Then it goes back to the builder. It's like Mr. Builder, you only used three screws to install the sheet of Advantech, and it's supposed to have this pattern. Right. So it's a long term liability that you're also, protecting yourself against when you're doing things the right way. 00:34:13:02 - 00:34:17:27 Speaker 2 Amazing, isn't it, that, doing it right the first time is the least expensive way to do it. 00:34:17:29 - 00:34:18:14 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:34:18:16 - 00:34:45:15 Speaker 2 As versus time to go into. But again, people don't know what they don't know. So the superintendent is watching a guy put in roof decking. Or I always have fun with the in the roofing class we talk about, I could be sitting in my truck with my eyes closed, taking a nap, kind of. But I can tell if the shingles are at least being installed properly just by listening to the sound of the nail gun. 00:34:45:17 - 00:35:07:24 Speaker 2 And I said, I know those shingles. Take four nails per shingle, but if you hear tap, tap, no. Well, wait a minute. Tap, tap, wait a minute. Tap tap I'm going home. So I start, I wake up, I will I'll go up on that ladder, I won't get on the roof, but I will go up his ladder, say, hey, time out, lift up a shingle and we will stop it before it even gets that far. 00:35:07:26 - 00:35:26:25 Speaker 2 Because again, you, you know, thing and you just start applying it and you don't always have to see it to know what's wrong. I heard it said, hey, roofer is only going two shots, something's wrong. And so you have the knowledge then to say, oh, something's wrong. I have to act because I'm the boss. 00:35:26:26 - 00:35:33:25 Speaker 1 And why does it matter if it's two versus four? I mean, you're saving money on nails that you're saving. That's right. You're keeping your project cost down. What does that matter? 00:35:33:25 - 00:35:37:10 Speaker 2 Well, I've been told. Well, you know, when it gets real hot, it all melts together anyway. So. Yeah. 00:35:37:13 - 00:35:41:09 Speaker 1 Yeah, sure. That that asphalt and the shingles, it kind of all just gels. Right. 00:35:41:17 - 00:35:47:12 Speaker 2 So in and because we know more than the shingle company. Right, right. No. But but they give. 00:35:47:12 - 00:35:53:26 Speaker 1 Us a warranty issue. It's an insurance issue to storm I mean there's lots of yeah lots of reasons that you need to follow those directions. 00:35:53:26 - 00:36:16:23 Speaker 2 And that applies to everything that goes into our house starting with the foundation, with how you place concrete and cure concrete to the framing, framing members and how you can notch or over not your overboard or do stupid stuff, or not put enough nails in a certain connection. On everything. Roof, decking, shingles, sheetrock. People, look, there's a video. 00:36:16:24 - 00:36:36:06 Speaker 2 You know, I love videos. There is one on the internet lately, and, family. I think it was. They said it was in Florida. They look up and just their sheetrock ceiling just starts caving in. It's not raining. It's not not. It just starts caving in. And it's a big news story in whatever local news this was. 00:36:36:08 - 00:36:59:13 Speaker 2 They had thought it was sagging. So the son put his phone over here on video while they were preparing dinner for a while, they were preparing dinner like 12ft of sheetrock just started coming down on top of everything, and it turns out, well, like you just said, this is supposed to be every six inches. Well, there were maybe three nails in the whole two four by 12 piece of sheetrock. 00:36:59:13 - 00:37:21:05 Speaker 2 And sure, over time it just came down. Yeah. And, it's just simple stuff. But people don't realize this, that out of the tens of thousands of parts and pieces that go into a new home, that it kind of has to go together and you have to know what you're looking at. You have to train and train your trades to install it properly. 00:37:21:05 - 00:37:30:13 Speaker 2 If they're not, and then be able to look at it at the end and say, yes, this is a quality job. If it's not, know how to tweak it to make it a quality dryer. 00:37:30:16 - 00:37:50:26 Speaker 1 There's a million ways to get sued. Building a house, you know, Ian Frea, who's the attorney with Bradley that teaches our, contracts classes. The the the VA. Every time he does one of those classes, he says, I don't know why you guys want to build houses. You got to be the dumbest guy to build a house for a customer, you know? 00:37:50:28 - 00:38:07:25 Speaker 1 And from a liability perspective, he's he's on track. Is there there are a million ways to get sued on building a house because, you know, we we as builders are supposed to be the subject matter experts, but we have to be that and all of these different components that go into the House. 00:38:08:01 - 00:38:28:17 Speaker 2 Yeah. And it's so it is kind of scary. Like I said earlier, when you're new, you're kind of sheepish and you're kind of going, oh, there's so many things in this house. To me. When I, the framing class, I often say that a frame if you've never been in a frame, you know your first frame as a new builder, you say, hey, I'll punch out that frame. 00:38:28:19 - 00:38:49:20 Speaker 2 And I got a set of plans, and you walk into a big two storey house with a bunch of lumber over your head, and you're going, oh, my, where do I start? Because there's literally thousands of parts and pieces, you know, half a million nails and all sorts of things and details and this and it. You go on, your head explodes because you're overcome with all the. 00:38:49:22 - 00:39:14:01 Speaker 2 But there's a very logical way to just I don't care if it's 1000 square foot house or 10,000ft², but they all, at least in Texas, you're stick building. It's all kind of the same where you're in a room, you still start with the bottom plate, look at the studs, look over your head. Connections, nails this. Then just go room to room and you take it methodically and before you know it, bingo. 00:39:14:02 - 00:39:38:27 Speaker 2 I'm done. And again, that builds confidence. But it has to have the background, the training and frames that he can go in there and understand. You know, what's a stud, what's a rafter? And know the terminology. That's the other thing I, teach people on is they will and I encourage you, if you're watching or listening, I said, please send me pictures and things I love new stuff to add to classes or pictures that say, hey, what is this? 00:39:38:27 - 00:40:04:04 Speaker 2 What's going on? Love those things because I'll talk to them. But, when they go through them, there's just craziness that you see in some of these pictures because they don't understand and they use terms that. Do you see that thing that sticking up that should be like, I mean, the rafter, meaning the ridge. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, at the very top at the ridge was at the top. 00:40:04:10 - 00:40:18:15 Speaker 2 Yeah. And they don't know the terminology. Yeah. And that's another thing, you know, basic terminology and home building is again a lost art because they don't a rafter a valley hip this you don't even know. 00:40:18:15 - 00:40:19:25 Speaker 1 Stud jack stud. Yeah. 00:40:19:27 - 00:40:40:05 Speaker 2 Header trimmer, trimmers, headers. It just it's kind of scary. And I mentioned the term, master builder to me. I was a student of Frank Lloyd Wright when I was studying, and, yeah, I've been to many of his homes from Arizona, Illinois, Wisconsin, all sorts. He was brilliant in his time, probably way ahead of his time. 00:40:40:07 - 00:41:01:00 Speaker 2 But the idea, the concept of the master builder goes back to Egyptians. When they built pyramids, there was one guy that knew everything about everything, and Frank Lloyd Wright was my modern mentor because he knew everything about he designed it, the furniture that went into it. He knew all the systems. He knew everything about everything about the homes that he designed. 00:41:01:03 - 00:41:21:11 Speaker 2 And today, I believe now I'm on some toes. We have a lot of well intentioned schedulers of new homes, and they're real good at scheduling. And they can go tell you if the roof was put on today or they can't tell you if the roof was put on properly, they can tell you if the plumbing top out was done today. 00:41:21:13 - 00:41:31:20 Speaker 2 But I don't know if those plumbers over board those floor. Joyce. That's the difference in today's builder. And it's just it's a lack of knowledge. 00:41:31:22 - 00:41:56:17 Speaker 1 Yeah, but I, I've talked about that quite a bit in the past. And I think a lot of that goes to, you know, let's say 50 years ago, people who were builders were guys that kind of came up from an early age being hands on, and they worked their way up from frame. They did everything or they they knew how to do everything from framing all the way to completion. 00:41:56:21 - 00:42:01:04 Speaker 1 Yeah, they were out. They were out there cutting this, cutting each stud with the. 00:42:01:06 - 00:42:02:20 Speaker 2 You know, hands, the handsaw. 00:42:02:20 - 00:42:27:17 Speaker 1 And they were hammering every single nail. They knew all the names of all the components. They knew how they all go together. But now we have a lot of time, as you mentioned, are basically schedulers. And and I definitely fell into that category, which is why I saw it off in education. And I was like, man, I, I have to know what it is that I am working on here. 00:42:27:19 - 00:42:42:04 Speaker 1 I can tell you how many flats are on a G flat concert scale on a on a piece of music, right. But I can't tell you the names of all these framing components. And I recognized early that if I want to be in this industry, I need to educate myself. Yeah. 00:42:42:06 - 00:42:57:17 Speaker 2 And that's what. So I need to clone that mentality that you have and give that bestow that upon every single person out here in the industry that wants to be a builder. So have that desire, that drive, that want to learn more. No more. Yeah. And, I. 00:42:57:19 - 00:43:00:16 Speaker 1 I mean, my motivation was I didn't want to look stupid. 00:43:00:22 - 00:43:05:01 Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, that's that's what I'm saying. That confidence thing, when. 00:43:05:01 - 00:43:13:02 Speaker 1 I'm meeting with clients, I don't want to I don't want to be like, you know? And they ask me, hey, what's that? What's that piece of lumber called? I don't want to be like, let me look it up. 00:43:13:04 - 00:43:16:29 Speaker 2 It's a thingamajig. It's. It's just holding that other thing about what it's done. 00:43:16:29 - 00:43:17:23 Speaker 1 Right? Trust me. 00:43:17:27 - 00:43:43:00 Speaker 2 Yeah. And it. And to me, that's kind of. I do talk to some superintendents sometimes that have that lack of knowledge of just basic terminology and I'm kind of like, oh, I'm burning my teeth. But again, I was young. I remember when I was a new builder, I came out, yes, I came out of a construction, you know, curriculum out of A&M. 00:43:43:05 - 00:44:09:13 Speaker 2 But to be honest, they didn't spend much time in residential at A&M. Yeah, it's all commercial, but. So you had to kind of gear up and start learning your, your craft. So and it's sadly there's lots of guys that maybe they're just collecting a paycheck and they don't want to learn. I do believe over time those guys get weeded out and they go their way eventually, or guys burn out and they just don't care anymore. 00:44:09:15 - 00:44:39:01 Speaker 2 But those that really want to be difference makers, I tell people all the time, I said, this is, you know, the lawyer you mentioned says, why do you want to do this? To me, homebuilding is the most meaningful profession because we get a chance to build a structure, a house that we will move a family into that gets to make it a home, put things up on the walls to make it theirs, and then they will take pictures of and create memories for years and years. 00:44:39:04 - 00:45:05:27 Speaker 2 And you as the builder, get to drive down that street a decade from now, two decades from now, until your kids or grandkids. I built that one on that one, and that was Mrs. Smith, and she named her dog after me. And, you know, all this stuff because you had the pride in your work to make it the best humanly possible and to do that, you said, I gotta I gotta know more because my bosses give me basic stuff, but I gotta do more. 00:45:05:29 - 00:45:26:15 Speaker 2 And to me, that's kind of cool. I can go through all the subdivisions I built with Perry, with Brighton and all the other builders I've worked for over the years, and you have that kind of pride in your work because you are proud of the work. You can go there and homeowners will give you a glass of tea on a hot day like this, as they see you walking down the street because they they love you. 00:45:26:17 - 00:45:37:21 Speaker 2 You treated them well and gave them a fine product. Whereas like you said, the other side of the spectrum, you don't want to show your face. You're moving to Tennessee because you want to get out of town as fast as possible. 00:45:37:23 - 00:45:57:13 Speaker 1 Yeah. I, I love that aspect of it. I, I started off doing remodel projects, and there was a certain neighborhood close to where I live now, where I did a ton of remodeling projects and this one neighborhood when I first got started, because that's the way it works. You know, you get one job, people see the sign, they start calling you, then you got ten in the same area. 00:45:57:16 - 00:46:04:16 Speaker 1 But I love going through there with the kids and saying, like, I did that house, I did that house, I did that house, I did that house. 00:46:04:19 - 00:46:05:12 Speaker 2 That's kind of cool. 00:46:05:12 - 00:46:21:14 Speaker 1 And then and then even as you hear people selling the houses, they're like, oh yeah, Curtis Lawson remodel that one. It makes you feel good. It gives you it gives you a sense of accomplishment. And, it it feels great knowing that you made a difference in that in the life of that family. Yeah. 00:46:21:17 - 00:46:53:21 Speaker 2 And and that's what it's all about. And I think as people, if you are all in, if you are committed to the industry, you understand that feeling. It's kind of, you know, sometimes it's not tangible. You can't grasp that feeling, but you just you just kind of well up with pride and say, yeah, all those. And but to do that, there are certain steps you had to take to get to a point in your life where you could do that and feel good about it, because when you first start out, admittedly, you're on, you're on the learning curve. 00:46:53:23 - 00:47:09:29 Speaker 2 And but by golly, I'm, you know, some guys well, some unless you're here five years, you don't know anything and you do it. Well, I'm going to I'm going to lessen the learning curve. I'm going to, you know, be down to two years a boss. In two years, I'm going to know it a little because I'm going to take these steps myself. 00:47:10:02 - 00:47:36:06 Speaker 2 And it's, you know, what are you willing to do to learn more, faster? So it's a it is a fun industry. And I hope people understand that, men or women coming into this, I encourage them to come into this, because it is just because what we were just talking about, it's the most rewarding thing possible, I believe that you can do is give this to other human beings as a place to live. 00:47:36:09 - 00:47:36:27 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:47:36:29 - 00:47:44:11 Speaker 1 I don't have to one day have a lot of my, my daughters come in and take over the company so they can experience that as well, you know. 00:47:44:12 - 00:47:51:10 Speaker 2 Yeah. She marries and son and then the, you know, they won't be lawyers or builders. 00:47:51:12 - 00:47:58:00 Speaker 1 Exactly. All right. Well, I think that's all I've got for today. Dave, I really appreciate you joining me. Unless you have something else. 00:47:58:00 - 00:48:05:13 Speaker 2 That's been fun, man. Time flies. And I haven't even heard a word out of the producer over there. And immediately everything's been working, right. 00:48:05:16 - 00:48:11:05 Speaker 1 She kind of works in the corner. She hasn't. She hasn't, like, hollered at us that something's on fire yet, so I'm assuming it's going. 00:48:11:08 - 00:48:12:19 Speaker 2 To be anything thrown at us. 00:48:12:19 - 00:48:16:27 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I mean, she usually throws paper at me if there's something going wrong over there. 00:48:16:29 - 00:48:19:00 Speaker 2 But start over. 00:48:19:02 - 00:48:28:08 Speaker 1 But, hey, thank you so much for being here today, Dave. It was it's always great to see you and great to have you on the show. And we'll we'll see each other again soon. HBA tell. 00:48:28:08 - 00:48:29:22 Speaker 2 Me back. Love to come visit again. 00:48:29:22 - 00:48:52:04 Speaker 1 All right. And thank you all for joining us on this episode of the your Project Shepherd podcast. I hope to see you soon. If you found this helpful. Enjoy listening. Please support us by liking and subscribing here on your podcast platform, and also join us on our YouTube channel. We want to continue to bring you high quality content and expert guests, and your support truly helps us to continue this journey. 00:48:52:07 - 00:49:01:02 Speaker 1 If you have any questions for me or my guests or any feedback for us, you can email us at podcast at your project shepherd.com. Thanks again.